Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline

[MTAtech]

You people are downright insane....A total rebuild of the United States in 10 years, complete with everything from free healthcare, to free housing, to free pizza on Tuesdays .....I heard better pitches from 8th graders running for class President....lol

Actually, doing the same thing, year after year, and expecting different results, is what's TRULY INSANE.

Regarding healthcare, health care isn't that hard an issue. Every advanced country besides the US has universal coverage, so we know how to do it: either government insurance or a highly regulated private system with mandates and subsidies that bring everyone in. In other words, we already know what a conservative approach to covering America looks like -- basically, it looks like Obamacare. The reason the GOP won't accept that is that IT DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO GET HEALTHCARE because the party doesn't want to pay the price -- the higher taxes and regulation needed to make coverage possible. But as resistance to Medicaid expansion shows, the party doesn't even want coverage expanded if someone else pays.

The universal plans aren't insane -- it's the people who resist doing it are immoral.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Oh you would be so so wrong. I really wish I wasn’t bound by client confidentiality. The myths and perceptions that people like yourself parrot, I would love to confont you with reality.

I have a pretty good grasp of how taxes, exemptions, deductions, and tax shelters work. I have run a business that looked at a lot of bottom lines of a lot of businesses and that also paid taxes. And nobody pays more taxes than they have to pay under the law. The very rich, including big business, have long sheltered their capital and their business income from the tax man as much as they can do. Which meant they moth balled it and/or off shored it, especially under the business unfriendly Obama Administration. Even many small businesses had mothballed their working capital and weren't risking it. And some off us just shut down as it wasn't profitable enough to take the risk and/or make the effort.

Small business doesn't have the luxury of sheltering itself from taxes like the big boys do. And I read a lot about what is going on. I know that General Electric, for example, didn't pay much, sometimes paid nothing, in federal income/corporate taxes for a number of years because they were doing all or most of their profitable business in more business friendly climates overseas. Nevertheless they were engaged in business activity, both buying and hiring in the USA that did generate federal taxes.

And now President Trump's policies have created a much more business friendly tax environment and is far less punitive to the rich so that many companies are re-establishing in the USA, and a lot of that working capital is being put back into the economy that has generated the amazing economic boom that we are seeing. Probably a lot of the very rich are still sheltering a lot or most of their wealth, but they are still buying stuff, paying property taxes, and in other ways contributing to the economy. And to go after them for more taxes than they already are paying will just drive them to spend most or all of their money in other places again.

This table represents ALL the taxes, i.e. local, state, federal, not just income tax, paid by various income groups in the USA. Even though the very rich can and do shelter some or much or all of their income tax, they are still paying a lot in taxes.

And Walter Williams, PhD economics, explains the cause and effect of President Trump's tax policies very well here:
https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2018/11/skin-in-the-game-who-pays-federal-income-taxes/

AOC seems to have zero comprehension of macroeconomics, supply and demand, cause and effect, or what is actually happening in the economy.

 

[jeffchap]

I can't believe anyone is even attempting a serious discussion of this. It looks more like something that would be put out by The Onion.

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[Mongidig]

You support a guy that makes fun of war heroes because he doesn't like what they say.

We are talking about Don't know what it will Costio Cortez in this thread.

 

[j-mac]

Actually, doing the same thing, year after year, and expecting different results, is what's TRULY INSANE.

Regarding healthcare, health care isn't that hard an issue. Every advanced country besides the US has universal coverage, so we know how to do it: either government insurance or a highly regulated private system with mandates and subsidies that bring everyone in. In other words, we already know what a conservative approach to covering America looks like -- basically, it looks like Obamacare. The reason the GOP won't accept that is that IT DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO GET HEALTHCARE because the party doesn't want to pay the price -- the higher taxes and regulation needed to make coverage possible. But as resistance to Medicaid expansion shows, the party doesn't even want coverage expanded if someone else pays.

Let me ask you...With a "economic security guaranteed to everyone including those unable, or unwilling to work" .... Just who the hell is going to do all this work?

 

[Harshaw]

Detractors thought the below was pie-in-the-sky too. Yet, we did it.

Yeah, because the narrow and relatively inexpensive engineering feat of putting people on the Moon is exactly the same thing as completely restructuring an entire global economy by force.

 

[Mongidig]

If we made 1600 buildings a day green we could have them all green by 2030. This assumes no more building in the next ten years.

 

[Keridan]

Detractors thought the below was pie-in-the-sky too. Yet, we did it.

Luckily that didn't involve tearing down an entire economy, spending many trillion dollars to revamp all buildings in the entire country, building enough railroads across the oceans to replace air travel and paying everyone unwilling to work enough to avoid going to medical school to cover the free healthcare.

There is a difference between a challenging goal and bat crap crazy. If you can't see that, you will have a very frustrating life.

 

[Keridan]

Actually, doing the same thing, year after year, and expecting different results, is what's TRULY INSANE.

Regarding healthcare, health care isn't that hard an issue. Every advanced country besides the US has universal coverage, so we know how to do it: either government insurance or a highly regulated private system with mandates and subsidies that bring everyone in. In other words, we already know what a conservative approach to covering America looks like -- basically, it looks like Obamacare. The reason the GOP won't accept that is that IT DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO GET HEALTHCARE because the party doesn't want to pay the price -- the higher taxes and regulation needed to make coverage possible. But as resistance to Medicaid expansion shows, the party doesn't even want coverage expanded if someone else pays.

The universal plans aren't insane -- it's the people who resist doing it are immoral.

Was this to argue his point against insanity or prove it? I'm honestly unsure.

 

[Mongidig]

Detractors thought the below was pie-in-the-sky too. Yet, we did it.

I'd say there was a touch more precision with the plan to go to the Moon.

 

[Harshaw]

They use the same playbook.

Rile up the base with rhetoric, offer "solutions" which don't have a snowballs chance in hell of ever being implemented, and then blame the other side for the "problem" not getting solved.

I'm gonna say she's more like Sarah Palin.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

I'm gonna say she's more like Sarah Palin.

The reason I compare her to Bachmann is because I live in Minnesota's 6th district and observed Bachmann for the entire time she served in congress. Cortez has her playbook down to a "T".

 

[Harshaw]

The reason I compare her to Bachmann is because I live in Minnesota's 6th district and observed Bachmann for the entire time she served in congress. Cortez has her playbook down to a "T".

Fair enough.

 

[slick]

I can't believe anyone is even attempting a serious discussion of this. It looks more like something that would be put out by The Onion.

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The biggest joke is on us the taxpayer who are actually paying her salary!

 

[MTAtech]

If we made 1600 buildings a day green we could have them all green by 2030. This assumes no more building in the next ten years.

Of course, any new buildings would have the new green codes. According to this site: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012...al-building-building-weve-already-built/1016/

Some older estimates suggest that we have been demolishing and replacing about 1 billion square feet of buildings in the U.S. each year (OK, probably not during the economic downturn). And the Brookings Institution has projected that we could turn over as much as a quarter of all of our building stock by 2030.

 

[Anthony60]

“economic security to all who are unable or unwilling to work”

:lamo OMG, Really? .... Good Grief!

She provides what you would get if you asked a forth grader to come up with a "green" plan for the country.

 

[MTAtech]

She provides what you would get if you asked a forth grader to come up with a "green" plan for the country.

While you try to marginalize her, the plans that she proposals are supported by a number of Nobel Prize winning economists. Not bad for a "forth grader," huh?

 

[Sweden]

I'm gonna say she's more like Sarah Palin.

You mean the Sarah Palin who was a successful state governor? The one who had jobs in the real word?

AOC has never held a position of responsibility - not even, as far as I know, as a 'community organiser'.

 

[Sweden]

While you try to marginalize her, the plans that she proposals are supported by a number of Nobel Prize winning economists. Not bad for a "forth grader," huh?

I would be interested to hear the names of all those Nobel prizewinners who support plans for building railways over the oceans.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I would be interested to hear the names of all those Nobel prizewinners who support plans for building railways over the oceans.

You have a keyboard, no? Rather than act so lazy, use it

 

[MTAtech]

I would be interested to hear the names of all those Nobel prizewinners who support plans for building railways over the oceans.

I didn't read about that proposal. Can you point to where you heard about it?

Emanuel Saez and Peter Diamond, to name two.

 

[Nickyjo]

I think that the obsession with AOC is part of all this. Easily done research shows that proposals like the resolution promoted by her and several others has been around for a while, supported by many individuals and organizations. Thomas Friedman mentioned it in 2007. I read the resolution and it is a wish list of proposals, not unlike FDR's New Deal. Some of what FDR did is still around, some of it never became law, some of it is gone, some of it was declared unconstitutional. I presume the same would happen with this proposal. Whether one ridicules it or thinks it's a good starting point for discussion is probably a function of the right's obsession with AOC, and whether one believes we should or can address climate change and/or other enviornmental problems.

My idle thoughts and remembrances:
-Speedy trains as an alternative to air travel work better in the east coast where cities are closer together, or in a much used route like I assume Chicago-St. Louis might be. Out here in California Gov. Brown's train seems strange as an alternative to SF-LA flights, unless one thinks that California's Central Valley from Fresno (or even Stockton) to Bakersfield might look like the the area south of San Francisco, a row of cities w/o discernible borders. Given our history of growth in the state, not a dumb bet.
-San Mateo County, just south of SF, in the early 60s if I remember right, shot itself in the foot and rejected a modest tax increase that would have funded the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) system. So BART stops roughy just below SF, while it goes way down the other side of the SF Bay.
-Generations ago, various corporations related to auto, oil, and highway construction bought up right of way's and tore up cities' light rail systems, replacing them with buses, if at all. I remember trolley tracks disappearing from my Brooklyn neighborhood in the 1950s There was a "Key System" in the SF Bay Area that disappeared. Now near my house in Berkeley, BART runs along a broad street called, you guessed it, Key Route. I think the same thing has happened in LA, where its new light rail runs along freeway medians, in some places back where light rail used to be.

To snarkily some up, left politicians and groups like the Sierra Club come up with an statement of the problem and its manifestations, and propose some solutions. From political figures on the right we have the analysis of Inofe's snowball and Trumps climate-change-is-a-fraud-invented-by-China, and the solution of drill baby drill.

 

[Anthony60]

While you try to marginalize her, the plans that she proposals are supported by a number of Nobel Prize winning economists. Not bad for a "forth grader," huh?

Yay! Doesn't make it any smarter, feasible or less Socialist. So, what's your point? A Socialist comes up with a plan, supported by more leftists, and I should be impressed? Let me guess, that idiot, Krugman, is one of them? Who else? The noted Nobel laureate, Obama? LOL!!!

Sorry, stuck on stupid is their game, not mine.

 

[Sabre]

You mean the Sarah Palin who was a successful state governor? The one who had jobs in the real word?

AOC has never held a position of responsibility - not even, as far as I know, as a 'community organiser'.

To best of my knowledge she had a real job, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was a bartender in Manhattan, it's only logical that her next job would be as a congresswoman.

 

[eohrnberger]

Hilarious!

Those afflicted with the TDS obsession now calling out alleged AOC obsession. :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

If that ain't the kettle calling the pot black, surely nothing is.