Your emotional hysterics on the subject suggest otherwise; I will take your word for it.
There is a reason these methods were called “enhanced.”
The definition of torture is clear; “severe physical or mental distress.”
Here is the dictionary version off the internet:
Main Entry: torture
Pronunciation: \ ˈtȯr-chər \
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Old French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquēre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drāhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
Date: 1540
Results
1 a. anguish of body or mind : agony b. something that causes agony or pain
2. the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3. distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining
http://www.referencecenter.com/ref/dictionary?invocationType=topsearchbox.refcentre&query=torture
Here let me pull the UN Convention definition:
UN Convention Against Torture
I don’t see anything here that suggests that torture is Tubub says it means.
Of course you don’t know; because based on your farcical arguments here, you think we are dealing with common cases of evidence.
READ the synopsis I gave you slower; there is NO “traditional” evidence to prosecute these animals with. They were captured by coalition troops or intelligence agencies not in the act of any crimes, but while being associated with the terrorists we are fighting.
That is why prisons like Gitmo exit and why the Bush Administration CORRECTLY wanted to use “tribunals.”
Giving the access to civil courts and Constitutional protections is beyond stupid; but this is the argument of the Liberals.
I quote your exact words:
QUOTE=Tubub "I think terrorists caught in Iraq and Afghanistan should be brought to justice without reverting to animalistic techniques."
Again, your OINION is hardly a substitute for relevance and facts. FACT; the US does not treat ANYONE with animalistic techniques; that is offensive beyond the pale and indicates someone more prone to emotional hysterics than facts.
Good lord dude, you have every idea but not completely informed?
How do you KNOW US soldiers have tortured their charges? Because you say so? Because you HEARD it from the ACLU speculations on the subject? Because you HEARD it from the Red Cross speculations on the subject?
You’re kidding me right? With such asinine assertions, I suggest that you correct your politically confused registration and make it “Democrat.”
What can one say here but; you’re kidding me right? You think this is a credible story with a credible case regarding the Patriot and your warped perceptions about your civil rights being abused?
Once more, I suggest that you correct your politically confused registration and make it “Democrat.”
mhmmm... i read the comment and it is loaded. So I'll break it down for you
1- I always pour emotions into arguements. I also have a tendency to argue a lot, probably based on the fact I like to argue....since you wanted to know :lol:
2- Yeah, it is very clear why they are called enhanced: Because beaucratic ******s are being politically safe. John Yoo and his butt pirate friends bend laws and regulations to their will, enhanced could mean anything he reconstructs it to mean. Maybe it means they are better or newer techniques. Maybe it means they are quicker. Maybe it is just a pseudonym for "torture". No? Fine, pretend that since the US is commiting it it is no longer torture, but keep in mind we prosecuted Japanese soldiers as war criminals after WWII for waterboarding.
3- Really? So waterboarding, cold cell, or long time standing do not cause any mental or physical distress?
The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours.
The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
I take back everything I said. This cannot be torture, actually IT SOUNDS LIKE FUN! WOOHHH I WANNA BE WATERBOARDED!!!
Wow, you really think this is the first war with scant evidence available to prosecute suspects? And that is what they are, SUSPECTS. Lets go beyond the fact that torturing suspects is completely immoral and enlighten the simple fact that torture has provided no actionable intelligence. Okay, okay that's arguable. How about this: Torture has been far more counterproductive than it has been productive. I don't know if you understand that winning over the people in Iraq or Afghanistan is essentially the key to winning the war. If you have instances like Abu Gahraib, the first battle of Fallujah, or the simple fact that the US tortures, you really think muslim men on the sidelines are going to be supportive of US influence? The US MUST exude a positive image. I guess you have learned no lessons, the most simple being that the US cannot win the War on Terror solely through force. (Torture isn't needed anyway, there are other methods used that are just as effective but not as immoral)
Why do we need to use tribunals? We have a perfectly good court system that can prosecute enemies of the state. If we want to emit an image of the ideal free state and democracy, then we don't go back to military tribunals to try enemies. Even if they are enemies and not criminals... you clearly don't comprehend the complete political picture and impact.
"Beyond stupid"... Pretty soon you'll want to cut their heads off. No, we're the guys that aren't nuts and don't cut people's heads off. We believe in human rights and individuals entitlement, no matter who you are. Acting overly agressive just wins them the support they'd like. But noooo, we must step down to their level of human indecency in order to fight them, right? Great logic.
Yeah, I think I just clarified that the US has commited animalistic techniques on prisoners.
Well let me think, how would I learn these things? Books, papers, magazines... have you ever heard of these silly things? You know, I like you so much Imma grab out Fiasco and turn to the page where he details torture that was recorded in prisons and Iraq or individual cases by soldiers. THATS HOW MUCH I LIKE YOU
"In the following nights, detainees were kept naked, with some forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers. On November 4 a detainee was hooded and placed on a box, and had wires attacted to him that he was told could electrocute him if he stepped off the box. On the same night a CIA detainee died in custody on Tier 1B, having been beaten by the Navy SEALs who had captured him. One detainee later described to Army investigators being made to "bark like a dog, being forced to crawl on his stomach while MPs spit and urinated on him, and being struck causing nconsciousness." Investigators found it "highly probably" that his allegations were accurate" (Thomas E. Ricks, Fiasco 292)
"'I saw the chief throw them down, put his knee in the neck and back, and grind them into the floor," one witness stated. "He would use a bullhorn and yell at them in Arabic and play heavy metal music extremely loud; they got so scared they would urinate themselves'"[anonymous soldier](Ricks, Fiasco 271)
I can't find the page detailing a known incident where CIA agents rolled a former Iraqi general into a sleeping bag and sat on him. He subsequently suffered from a heart attack.
"One day in the spring of 2004...[Abu Gahraib becomes a huge media story] 'What's going on' Mattis asked...A nineteen-year-old lance corporal glanced up from the television screen and told the general, 'Some assholes have just lost the war for us"'(290)
"It was a tragic moment for a military with a long and proud heritage of treating its prisoners better than most--especially one that had come Iraq thinking itself as a liberation force, again solidly in the American tradition. During the Revolutionary war, the history David Hackett Fischer noted, Gen. George Washington had "often reminded his men that they were an army of liberty and freedom, and that the rights of humanity for which they were fighting should extent even to their enemies." This compassion toward prisoners was extended by Washington expressely in the face of the cruel British handling of American captives. Washington order Lt. Col. Samuel Blachley Webb... 'Treat them with humanity, and Let them have no reason to Complain of our Copying the brutal example of the British army in their Treatment of our unfortunate brethren'"(297)
Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions states:
Article 3
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.
I won't even bother, this comment has taken enough time and effort.
I'm a conservative therefore I am a realist. This is the reality of the situation, whether its told by a liberal or by a conservative. THIS is the party of the Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower; not Dick Cheney, John Yoo, and George W. Bush. I'm staying,
you can leave.
PS: try reading some news once in a while
CIA torture techniques : "waterboarding"
BBC NEWS | Americas | CIA admits waterboarding inmates
Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI agent testifies - Politics AP - MiamiHerald.com
Military's Interrogation Techniques: A History - The Atlantic Politics Channel
FreeB.E.A.G.L.E.S.: Police Interrogation
Try some books and documentaries too: 1- Cobra II 2- No True Glory 3- Assassin's Gate 4- No End in Sight 5-Fiasco and so on and on
Cheers!