Reducing the speed limit to 25 mph versus banning CCW - which saves more lives?

[apdst]

In the US it was 36,000 auto deaths last year.

Cone on dude


Motor vehicle fatality rate in U.S. by year - Wikipedia

You're excluding homocides and suicides.

 

[vegas giants]

You're excluding homocides and suicides.

By car? You are claiming there are 65,000 homicides and suicides by car???


Come on man

 

[apdst]

I have viewing signature lines turned off.

IF YOU ARE QUOTING ME IN YOUR SIGNATURE LINE - REMOVE IT. Consider this a formal demand.

The way he quoted you is a rule violation.

 

[apdst]

By car? You are claiming there are 65,000 homicides and suicides by car???


Come on man

Refer to the cdc link

 

[Phys251]

I think that is important for a reason you might miss. Cars kill far more people than guns but almost all the car deaths are not INTENDED while the vast majority of gun deaths are intentional.

Finally you admit that guns kill people. But your statistics are way off.

 

[vegas giants]

Refer to the cdc link

I did. Are you claiming there are 65,000 motor vehicle suicides and homicides in the US yearly?


Yes or no

 

[Phys251]

What is the prime purpose of a motor vehicle? To transport people or cargo about. The deaths caused by motor vehicles are almost always accidental and often both unintended and unforeseeable.

What is the prime purpose of a firearm. To damage whatever it is fired at. If that target is a living thing and is successfully targeted, then that damage will result in the death or injury of the targeted living thing. Deaths/injuries by firearms to living things other than the firer are almost always not accidental and are thus intentional. They are either intentional or reasonably foreseeable.

CCW permits are designed to allow people to carry weapons secretly onto property not owned and controlled by the permit holder thus their prime purpose is to conceal the possession of a lethal weapon from others. I do not want anyone other than a duly authorised member of a state controlled public police force or the government's military to be able to carry concealed weapons or openly displayed weapons onto my property. I do not want anyone but police, military or licensed security guards hired by a useable person caring open or concealed weapons onto public property frequented by the general population or private property open to the general public where my children or the rest of my family can visit.

Because CCW permits allow the covert carrying of lethal weapons by private citizens, I think they should be banned. If you must carry a weapon in public, then carry it openly and suffer the consequences of that carrying when private citizens and firms ban you from carrying on their property and when police and security officials repeatedly check you out for carrying weapons openly in public spaces.

The Second Amendment only limits what the federal government (and by extension through the 14th Amendment what state governments) can do. Not municipalities, not counties and not private property owners and not private citizens. So keep sensible speed limits on public roads and ban CCW permits immediately.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Since this thread concerns gun violence and automobile fatalities, I'd like to point out the words of someone who wanted to further reduce that gun violence but was blocked by the NRA and Moscow Mitch from doing so:

 

[TheGoverness]

I have viewing signature lines turned off.

IF YOU ARE QUOTING ME IN YOUR SIGNATURE LINE - REMOVE IT. Consider this a formal demand.

Watch out! The Joko-stapo's comin' for you!

 

[joko104]

No they're really not. You never really see "gun free zone" signs in Canada. Never saw one in Chile either.

So that's two 1st world countries where you don't see them.
of course both countries have stricter gun laws, but they also have a generally healthier culture involving families.

All of American "culture" and Americans are not identical. The reason Democrats talk ONLY about all of the USA and gun murders is because it is the cities they control - and with their anti-gun rights laws - and the illegal immigrants they want to bring in by the 10s of millions - is why gun murder rates are higher than other countries.

The USA does not have a murder culture. Instead, the Democratic Party creates murder-zones and openly invited all foreign criminals - including fleeing the criminal justice system of their country - to come to the USA. Eliminate the murders resulting from the Democratic Party's actions and the USA's murder-by-gun rate would be lower than virtual every country on earth.

 

[vegas giants]

All of American "culture" and Americans are not identical. The reason Democrats talk ONLY about all of the USA and gun murders is because it is the cities they control - and with their anti-gun rights laws - and the illegal immigrants they want to bring in by the 10s of millions - is why gun murder rates are higher than other countries.

The USA does not have a murder culture. Instead, the Democratic Party creates murder-zones and openly invited all foreign criminals - including fleeing the criminal justice system of their country - to come to the USA. Eliminate the murders resulting from the Democratic Party's actions and the USA's murder-by-gun rate would be lower than virtual every country on earth.

The gop wants the shootings to continue. That is why they will do nothing about this. These shootings ate great for their base. They love this stuff

 

[TurtleDude]

Finally you admit that guns kill people. But your statistics are way off.

people use guns to shoot bullets that then kill people. few people are actually killed by guns. However, almost all gun deaths are intentional, almost all car deaths are not intentional.

 

[Phys251]

people use guns to shoot bullets that then kill people. few people are actually killed by guns. However, almost all gun deaths are intentional, almost all car deaths are not intentional.

So you were making a sleight-of-hand? Intentional gun deaths don't count as gun deaths?

 

[Noodlegawd]

No. They would never do that because it would crash the economy and is an incredibly dumb idea

What's dumb about applying stricter penalties to driving violations, or further restrictions on the kind of car you can own? How would that crash the economy?

 

[vegas giants]

What's dumb about applying stricter penalties to driving violations, or further restrictions on the kind of car you can own? How would that crash the economy?

A 25 mph limit would bring our economy to a crashing halt. Come on man....think

 

[Noodlegawd]

A 25 mph limit would bring our economy to a crashing halt. Come on man....think

I didn't say anything about a 25 mph speed limit. So who needs to think. If you want to talk about a 25 mph speed limit crashing the economy, tell the OP, not me. If you want to respond to me, then respond to what I said.

 

[vegas giants]

I didn't say anything about a 25 mph speed limit. So who needs to think. If you want to talk about a 25 mph speed limit crashing the economy, tell the OP, not me. If you want to respond to me, then respond to what I said.

Then show us the specific details of the plan you want and I will be happy to comment on it

 

[Noodlegawd]

Then show us the specific details of the plan you want and I will be happy to comment on it

You really have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you? When did I say that I have a plan that I want? You could try commenting on what I actually wrote if you're that bored.

But now that you mention it, this is a forum about gun control, and there's no doubt that you favor more gun control, so give us your "plan".

 

[vegas giants]

You really have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you? When did I say that I have a plan that I want? You could try commenting on what I actually wrote if you're that bored.

But now that you mention it, this is a forum about gun control, and there's no doubt that you favor more gun control, so give us your "plan".

Wow. So angry. And so unwilling to give us your plan. I can only assume you have the gop plan.


Do nothing


Because you want shootings to increase. It's good for your base

 

[Manc Skipper]

Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. More than half of all road traffic deaths occur among young adults ages 15-44.
For the United States:
Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
Road Safety Facts — Association for Safe International Road Travel

Tens of thousands of deaths, thousands of children killed, over 2 million injured or disabled, costing hundreds of billions of dollars - EVERY YEAR!!!

Do any of you doubt there are thousands, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of totally incompetent drivers out there. Licensing them, testing their driving, licensing and inspecting their cars, and regulating cars for safety - and still massive death counts, injury counts and economic lose anyway.

How many people each year are killed or injured by concealed carry firearms and what are the costs of CCWers? Virtually none.

So why isn't the demand to reduce the speed limit to 25 mph? There is no constitutional right to drive a car. 25 mph will get you where you are going - it would just take a few more minutes. For distance you could fly, take a bus - or take your time.

Why is saving 30 minutes a day MORE important to you than the truly massive death and injury carnage even overwhelming exceeding war deaths - particularly of children and young people - while you demand banning Conceal Carry of a firearm - that statistically is almost devoid of any injuries and deaths - and it is known the mere appearance of a firearm deters tens of thousands - if not more - felony crimes and assaults per year?

For those of you who want conceal carry banned, how do you justify this unless you also support reducing the speed limit to 25 mph - which would save MANY, MANY times more lives and prevent overwhelmingly more injuries, not even counting the massive annual economic costs?

Do your REALLY care about saving lives - or just fear and/or hate guns and want to force everyone else to live to your fear and/or hate?
Then


ver 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person

False premise. It's not an either or question. Millions are already spent on minimising the death toll from road accidents. Guns are designed to kill or maim.

 

[DebateChallenge]

You falsely claimed that the motivation for gun safety laws is not saving lives, didn't you?

If the motivation for gun safety laws is to save lives than it doesn't make sense to want to ban CCW as a gun safety law since practically nobody is killed by a CCW carrier, except criminals.

 

[DebateChallenge]

False premise. It's not an either or question. Millions are already spent on minimising the death toll from road accidents. Guns are designed to kill or maim.

No, guns are designed to throw small projectiles at high speeds. How that principle is used depends on the user. Obviously it can be used to kill or maim but it has many other uses, it all depends on what the user is using it for not what its "designed" for.

And of course there are many other things that can be used to kill or maim even if they weren't initially "designed" for that.

But in your little island country in which guns are heavily restricted, you should be satisfied with your country's gun laws so you have no reason to whine or complain.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Wow. So angry. And so unwilling to give us your plan. I can only assume you have the gop plan.


Do nothing


Because you want shootings to increase. It's good for your base

I'll take "do nothing" over sophistry and smoke and mirrors any day.

 

[vegas giants]

I'll take "do nothing" over sophistry and smoke and mirrors any day.

The families of the dead will be so relieved