Question for the guys

[SDET]

Truth be told although I have known since I was 6 that I was trans even though I didn’t know the word for it. I didn’t tell my wife until we had been married 6 years. Now I’m considering going through transition. But I know I would loss my wife if I did. Keep in mind my wife was the first person I ever told.


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Are you SURE that you would lose your wife? Sometimes people will surprise you.

 

[Babykat]

Are you SURE that you would lose your wife? Sometimes people will surprise you.

Not completely no. She’s a very good woman. But she isn’t sexually attracted to females. So even if we did stay together it would completely change our relationship. She wouldn’t be attracted to me anymore. That’s not her fault and I could live with it myself. But could she.


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[Wan]

Not completely no. She’s a very good woman. But she isn’t sexually attracted to females. So even if we did stay together it would completely change our relationship. She wouldn’t be attracted to me anymore. That’s not her fault and I could live with it myself. But could she.


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Are you passable? Just out of curiosity.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Says who? Where do you derive such a right? By your logic, it is my right to never have sex with a black person. So if a black person is one of those whose skin is so light as to easily be mistake as a white person, then also by your logic they are require to tell me that they are black.

That has nothing to do with me thank you.

That is only your perception of the OP premise. Regardless, as noted I don't even have a right to know my wife's medical history, unless she is incapable of making her own decisions. Hell I have had to sigh releases to allow my doctors to talk with my wife about medical issues. Now I am pretty sure that such was more doctor CYA than legal requirement to have a signed statement, but the reality is that if she doesn't want her doctor to reveal medical stuff to me, he can't. I have no right to it. You have no right to her medical history, including what she was born as.

That has no bearing on my gender identity. I have rights as well. You may have all kinds of opinions but in the end I would still get a lawyer and go after you to pay my doctor bills and the distress that I may have suffered at your expense.

I Assert that A transgender person has no right to take away my right to my own gender identity. No one should have the right to force anyone to engage into a sexual act that they do not want to engage in. Not telling someone that you are going to sleep with that you are not transgender may have a big impact on the others life. Your rights end where mine start.

 

[AGENT J]

That has nothing to do with me thank you.




That has no bearing on my gender identity. I have rights as well. You may have all kinds of opinions but in the end I would still get a lawyer and go after you to pay my doctor bills and the distress that I may have suffered at your expense.

I Assert that A transgender person has no right to take away my right to my own gender identity. No one should have the right to force anyone to engage into a sexual act that they do not want to engage in. Not telling someone that you are going to sleep with that you are not transgender may have a big impact on the others life. Your rights end where mine start.

there was no force in the OP scenario
You keep making this retarded claim . . . what rights? LMAO

can they sue you back if your performance is terrible and your genital are super small for distress?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Actually if your point of rape by deception is to be considered valid, then any deception would count. Why would it be any less valid if your only reason with sleeping with the woman was that she was rich, and then you found out she wasn't? Well maybe not only reason, but still a major one. Seriously, if you want to use the deception bit, then you need to remain consistent and not cherry pick.

Still those comparisons are apples and oranges and self serving to your argument..

The idea that they lied presumes both that they knew you would have such an issue with it, and that they felt that it was something you needed to know immediately. I mean do you ask every woman that you might sleep with if they were previously a man? Short of that, then at least the first time, they are under no obligation to release anything medically to you. It will not affect your physical health and it is very doubtful it would cause PTSD.

It is not my responsibility to ask someone if the are trans. I mean if it isnt obvious why would I think it?

Just out of curiosity, what if what you were told that they did indeed have a Y chromosome, but no mention as to whether or not they used to be a man?

The Y chromosome angle is nothing but a distraction. My position is that I never want to have sex with a transgender women. Most likely by the time that we had sex, she would know exactly why she was not telling me. Which is that I would never give consent to have sex with a transgender women. Therefor her action is malicious and that would give my lawsuit teeth.

 

[marke]

Let's imagine that you had sex with a "woman", and "she" only told you about her trans-ness after you had slept with her. What would your reaction be?

Let's be honest.

That is another excellent example of why no man should date or marry a 'woman' who has not proven herself to be a good Christian.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

There is a difference between right and responsibility. So take for example. If a man had sex with an underage girl. But she lied about her age to him and the law gets involved. Is he going to jail or is she. If you consent to sex without verifying what you have been told it’s your own fault. Also just a point after they have had their birth certificate changed they are a women.


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Your example is open to a lot of different scenarios. Some scenarios have the underage girl being the one in trouble. The underage girl could purposely deceive the adult into believing that she is over 18 or whatever. And it is conceivable that an adult could be shocked to learn that they slept with a child. Could even affect them mentally.

 

[AGENT J]

1.) Still those comparisons are apples and oranges and self serving to your argument..
2.)It is not my responsibility to ask someone if the are trans. I mean if it isnt obvious why would I think it?
3.)The Y chromosome angle is nothing but a distraction. My position is that I never want to have sex with a transgender women. Most likely by the time that we had sex, she would know exactly why she was not telling me. Which is that I would never give consent to have sex with a transgender women. Therefor her action is malicious and that would give my lawsuit teeth.

1.) you say that but only because they destroy your failed arguments
2.) of course it is just as much as anything else
3.) theres no logic that proves malicious action hence why there is no teeth. Your hurt feelings are not teeth

 

[uptower]

As far as I know, medically speaking there are certain things a trans body can't do. Self-lubricating might be one of them. Someone may correct me though as I have done zero research.

I don't really hang in those circles, but apart from some well airbrushed models promoting transgenderism on magazine covers and whatnot, I've never seen one that didn't look like a drag queen. I have been to southeast Asia and the 'ladyboys' as they call them all stand out as very different from those born a woman in the first place. Some celebrity jobs like Jenner and Manning are of course easy to spot.

So if someone didn't sound like a woman, look like one, walk like one, smell and taste like one, would we really not know till after sleeping with them? Sounds to me like only a very sexually inexperienced male would fail to notice every single tip off.

 

[Wan]

As far as I know, medically speaking there are certain things a trans body can't do. Self-lubricating might be one of them. Someone may correct me though as I have done zero research.

I don't really hang in those circles, but apart from some well airbrushed models promoting transgenderism on magazine covers and whatnot, I've never seen one that didn't look like a drag queen. I have been to southeast Asia and the 'ladyboys' as they call them all stand out as very different from those born a woman in the first place. Some celebrity jobs like Jenner and Manning are of course easy to spot.

So if someone didn't sound like a woman, look like one, walk like one, smell and taste like one, would we really not know till after sleeping with them? Sounds to me like only a very sexually inexperienced male would fail to notice every single tip off.

What about Blaire White? Very passable.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As far as I know, medically speaking there are certain things a trans body can't do. Self-lubricating might be one of them.

THANK YOU!!! I don't know why I was embarrassed to say it, I shouldn't be.
But unless I've missed some new development, transsexual women do not have Skene's glands.
Of course, I have zero experience with trans women but maybe someone who does have experience can confirm or not.

 

[maxparrish]

ROFLMFAO!!!!!

If only I could have a dollar for every male I've heard say this shortly before or after they started hitting on my transwoman friend. I could retire.

And if I had a dollar for every such claim, I could also retire. I can't speak for other males but my own "transdar" for fake females is second only to a friend of mine - a gay friend who taught me all the nuances and subtleties that gets him positive ID every time. Be it in photographic tests or actual observation its usually very easy - and if you go by the maxim that if you have to ask you already know the answer no more needs be said.

As I said, the only likely error I make has been in a couple of real women who were false positives - not the other way around.

 

[maxparrish]

First off omission is not automatically lying. Your claim of a right to know something has yet to be supported. It is also based upon your own preconceptions. If the person has already gone through full SRS, in their mind they are a woman, and the point of mentioning they are transgendered might seem moot to them.

The reason for saying so later could be any number of reasons. Since the OP was so vague that the situation could be a one night stand turned into a long term relationship. For a one night stand, unless it would be a direct affect upon your health, then you have no right to know anything about her medically. Hell, even with my legal wife, unless she is incapable of making her own decision, I have no right to know anything about her medically, past or present. You can make all the points you want about honesty and trust and whatnot, but it still does not provide a right to know.

Wrong.

First, this has zero to do with anyone's real or imagined LEGAL right to know a medical fact - that is your own red herring and avoidance of the deeper moral issue of fraud, or fair consideration of possible legal exposure.

Clearly you could use a brush up on moral behavior: it is understood that "Lying by omission is when you are aware that somebody believes something to be true that you know to be false, and intentionally avoid telling them so as to reinforce their false perception". And when your deliberate omission alters outcomes, withholding that information in order to sway a person's judgement or actions to your advantage then it is both a gross lie and a fraud... to gain something through deceit.

Most of us hetro males, for example, should know that in personal or intimate interactions with a women it is immoral, manipulative, and fraudulent to let a woman believe you are single when you are, in fact, married. So it should take very little imagnation for you to also know that a trans-female would be equally immoral, manipulative, and fraudulent to let a man believe he is pursuing or having sex with a cis-female, who is actually a sex masked male.

Second, if such deceit injures another party financially, physically, or emotionally it may under some circumstances be actionable under civil and/or criminal law. In any event, for a moral person, one needn't speculate on how much legal exposure they have for fraudulent posing as a cis-female; a moral transgender knows not to do it.

Last, this isn't an issue of a duty for disclosure. It is an issue of refusing to disclose in order to commit fraud upon another; you don't have to tell a person your car is really a bicycle with a fake auto body, but if you sell it to another knowing that the buyer would naturally assume it's a car you are committing fraud.

What is it about honesty and decency eludes you?

 

[uptower]

THANK YOU!!! I don't know why I was embarrassed to say it, I shouldn't be.
But unless I've missed some new development, transsexual women do not have Skene's glands.
Of course, I have zero experience with trans women but maybe someone who does have experience can confirm or not.

I don't want to be crass but a gentleman puts his mouth around these things. I'm pretty sure my missus wouldn't be fooled if one night in the dark I offered up a bowling pin instead of the usual fare. Likewise I'm pretty sure I'd know what I've got my lips around.

 

[Babykat]

Your example is open to a lot of different scenarios. Some scenarios have the underage girl being the one in trouble. The underage girl could purposely deceive the adult into believing that she is over 18 or whatever. And it is conceivable that an adult could be shocked to learn that they slept with a child. Could even affect them mentally.

I’m talking about legally and legally he would be responsible. Yes it could and probably would mentally affect him. Given he is going to jail for statutory rape. Because under law if you have sex with someone under age of consent you are guilty of statutory rape. Even if they lied to you and you believed they where over age of consent. It’s your responsibility to make sure they are over the age of consent. Just like if you wanted to avoid having sex with a transgender it would be your responsibility to make sure they aren’t transgender.


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[Babykat]

Your example is open to a lot of different scenarios. Some scenarios have the underage girl being the one in trouble. The underage girl could purposely deceive the adult into believing that she is over 18 or whatever. And it is conceivable that an adult could be shocked to learn that they slept with a child. Could even affect them mentally.

That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t find it morally reprehensible if someone lied about being transgender to have sex and there could be cause for a civil suit. But there wouldn’t be cause for a criminal prosecution against them. Really for a civil suit to be brought forth you just need to file it and it will be heard. That doesn’t mean you will win. Just that it will be heard in a court of law.


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[Lethargic Aptitude]

I’m talking about legally and legally he would be responsible. Yes it could and probably would mentally affect him. Given he is going to jail for statutory rape. Because under law if you have sex with someone under age of consent you are guilty of statutory rape. Even if they lied to you and you believed they where over age of consent. It’s your responsibility to make sure they are over the age of consent. Just like if you wanted to avoid having sex with a transgender it would be your responsibility to make sure they aren’t transgender.


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Lechner v. State, 715 N.E.2d 1285 – CourtListener.com

here is a case where a defendant won an appeal for sleeping with an underage person and won. But yes such cases are rare.

The difference between the transgender question and underage is that it isnt illegal to sleep with transgender people. Given that there is no intolerance laws (gladly there is; gladly there isnt) the legal aspects would be different.

Even though it was my assertion that has forwarded this conversation on legal matters, this is probably not the right part of the forum for that type of discussion. I apologize for unwittingly derailing this thread...

This being the dating and relationships forum I would like to try to go that direction. Ignoring the legal aspects that (I brought up) the relationship aspect of the op, seems a bit easier to tackle. It boils down to individual sexual orientation. As stated previously we all have our own preferences and reasons why we chose a partner. Some people do not want to be romantically involved with transgender people, and some who do. And some might not have, but given the new information their love transcends their previous position.

Obviously my personal position would not be acceptance. Regardless any further romantic relationship would be over. Continuing a friendship would be tough given the level of distrust their actions created. Lets pretend that the secret was not transgenderism but that they were a fugitive, and they only told you after they were arrested. Again its a breach of trust. In romantic relationships I put a lot of value in trust. I have been married for 22 years, the only that happens is with trust and understanding. The transition from one sex to another is a huge part of what makes that person who they are. I seriously doubt that anyone who would hide such a thing can be sincere in a relationship.

 

[Captain America]

After I puked my guts out I would probably get in the shower and never come out.

Then I woud feel like a real loser for not knowing in the first place. It would definitely **** up my psyche for a long time to come.

Fortunantly, I don't have to worry about that. After having given birth to 3 kids, I'm pretty sure my wife is 100% female.

 

[ecofarm]

I'd watch Brokeback Mountain, just to double check.

 

[lwf]

Apples and oranges. You are comparing two ridiculous situations to one that is can especially serious to many people. I take it that you see no problem and would have sex with a transgender person, but that is your decision based on your own personal state of mind. Not all people are you and this may feel dramatically different than you. Stop pretending that everyone is as accepting of transgenderism as you are. Personally I do not care what adults want to do with their bodies as long as it does not involve me. If you want to become transgender whatever the hell I do not care, but once you lie to me to have sex I do care..a lot. You now involved me in something that I would never in a million ****ing years consent too, and you probably knew that since you lied in order to **** me.

You are correct that misleading someone into having sex with you is NOT rape by deception. Rape requires non-consenting sex, or consent under threat, and rape by deception is no different. In fact, every U.S. case of rape by deception that I'm aware of falls into one of those two categories. Either the survivor thought she was having sex with one person, but it turned out to be a different individual entirely (non-consent,) or someone held themselves out to be a medical professional and convinced the survivor that sex was medically necessary (consent under threat.) Voluntary sex with someone you later find out was trans (or a criminal, or Jewish, or half black, or a liberal) is neither a violation of your consent, (you knowingly engaged in sex with the individual in question regardless of how much you knew about their personal history) nor is it consenting under threat. Therefore, even though deception was involved, rape was not.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

You are correct that misleading someone into having sex with you is NOT rape by deception. Rape requires non-consenting sex, or consent under threat, and rape by deception is no different. In fact, every U.S. case of rape by deception that I'm aware of falls into one of those two categories. Either the survivor thought she was having sex with one person, but it turned out to be a different individual entirely (non-consent,) or someone held themselves out to be a medical professional and convinced the survivor that sex was medically necessary (consent under threat.) Voluntary sex with someone you later find out was trans (or a criminal, or Jewish, or half black, or a liberal) is neither a violation of your consent, (you knowingly engaged in sex with the individual in question regardless of how much you knew about their personal history) nor is it consenting under threat. Therefore, even though deception was involved, rape was not.

I have disengaged from this line of conversation for I feel its not what this forum was made for.

 

[lwf]

I have disengaged from this line of conversation for I feel its not what this forum was made for.

Fair enough

 

[Divine_Wind]

Let's imagine that you had sex with a "woman", and "she" only told you about her trans-ness after you had slept with her. What would your reaction be?

Let's be honest.

If she had all the right parts, I wouldn't have a problem with it. OTOH, I wouldn't date such a person. Sex is one thing, but a long-term relationship is another.

 

[Babykat]

Lechner v. State, 715 N.E.2d 1285 – CourtListener.com

here is a case where a defendant won an appeal for sleeping with an underage person and won. But yes such cases are rare.

The difference between the transgender question and underage is that it isnt illegal to sleep with transgender people. Given that there is no intolerance laws (gladly there is; gladly there isnt) the legal aspects would be different.

Even though it was my assertion that has forwarded this conversation on legal matters, this is probably not the right part of the forum for that type of discussion. I apologize for unwittingly derailing this thread...

This being the dating and relationships forum I would like to try to go that direction. Ignoring the legal aspects that (I brought up) the relationship aspect of the op, seems a bit easier to tackle. It boils down to individual sexual orientation. As stated previously we all have our own preferences and reasons why we chose a partner. Some people do not want to be romantically involved with transgender people, and some who do. And some might not have, but given the new information their love transcends their previous position.

Obviously my personal position would not be acceptance. Regardless any further romantic relationship would be over. Continuing a friendship would be tough given the level of distrust their actions created. Lets pretend that the secret was not transgenderism but that they were a fugitive, and they only told you after they were arrested. Again its a breach of trust. In romantic relationships I put a lot of value in trust. I have been married for 22 years, the only that happens is with trust and understanding. The transition from one sex to another is a huge part of what makes that person who they are. I seriously doubt that anyone who would hide such a thing can be sincere in a relationship.

Let me present a different situation. Although it’s very similar in some ways. This is actually the situation I’m in currently. I have been married to my wife for 12 years now. I knew at age 6 that I wasn’t male. Although I was born male. Out of fear I hide this about myself for 36 years. I never intended on telling anyone. But after 36 years I couldn’t handle it anymore and I told my wife. It’s been 2 since I told her. I have just now started hormones. How would you feel in this situation.


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