Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong

[Wake]

"I think nature gave us the inherent instinct to know that in-breeding is not conducive with self-preservation and can hardly be compared to homosexuality."

Oh? How do you know, just as with homosexuality? Do I smell a bigoted incestophobe? I hope I don't hear this term decades from now..

Since liberals tend to use animals as reasoning by stating that animals can perform homosexual acts, then why not also consider the fact that animals also engage in incestual acts?

Furthermore, homosexuality was a rare sin in the past, but now it's highly accepted as demoralization continues. Knowing this, I am sure incest will eventually be accepted as well. It takes a few, then a few more, then a few more, then a group, then a movement, then law changes/battles, then, well, people will most likely be debating this here as we are now with homosexuality.

Out of curiosity, wanting to test the validity of the previous statement, I searched a few phrases relating to incest on YouTube. Apparently, there ARE pro-incest people/vids out there. Hmm, is my theory totally impossible? I don't think so.

 

[Wake]

ROFL. I think he would have to believe in "sin" before he believed it was or was not a sin.

Since sin to the Godless is subjective, undoubtedly incest will become common once demoralization reaches the latter stages.

 

[Captain America]

You do have some points worth pondering but I think as societies come and go and things become accepted and not excepted down through time, the percentage of natural homosexuals in mankind remains pretty consistant. But that's only a guess.

Natural fact belongs to both liberals and conservatives. I don't look upon nature as a politcal entity or an ideology. It's more physics and law of nature to me. The law of nature dictates that homosexuals are here, have always been here, and will always be here. Hey, I didn't make the law so go easy on the "liberal" smack. That's just the way things are and have always been.

I know that it is entirely possible for animals to in-breed. captive animals will and do. But the natural animal inherently knows to distance themselves from their own bloodline. And they never had to go to church to be told. I suspect humans figured it out as well, long before they invented god.

 

[CriticalThought]

Since sin to the Godless is subjective, undoubtedly incest will become common once demoralization reaches the latter stages.

Ah, an appeal to consequences of belief fallacy. You are just so much fun because I tend to only see elementary school children make such basic mistakes in logic.

Actually, incest is a very interesting topic. While it is a universal cultural taboo, it has been practiced by royalty throughout history as a means to keep the family line in power. However, this lead to a disease called "hemophilia" and to other serious genetic abnormalities. Furthermore, behavioral scientists have found when two people live in close domestic proximity during the first few years in the life of either one, both are desensitized to later close sexual attraction. This is called the Westermarck effect and it is likely a biologically built in mechanism that keeps people from finding their relatives sexually attractive.

Of course, in Japan some studies have shown that 80% of men report they have had some sexual contact with their mother. But Japan is one of the most sexually conservative and repressed nations on the planet.

I would say the opposite of your view is true. The more sexually represeed a culture the more likely it will act out in ways that cross cultural and biological taboos.

Afterall, how many celibate priests have molested young alter boys?

 

[CriticalThought]

I suspect humans figured it out as well, long before they invented god.

Imprinting (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Captain America]

That's pretty smart right there CT. I had a hunch I might have been right.

 

[Captain America]

Imprinting (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freud argued that as children, members of the same family naturally lust for one another, making it necessary for societies to create incest taboos,[5] but Westermarck argued the reverse, that the taboos themselves arise naturally as products of innate attitudes.

What the hell is Freud talkin' about?

Show of hands. How many people here had a sexual desire for their sister or mother?

"Pull out your false teeth granny! I wanna suck on your gums!"

Eeee-yewwwww....

Didn't think so.

What was this Freud guy smoking? I know he's some big famous psychobabbler and all that but he can't piss in my hair and tell me it's raining. That Westermarck guy, I believe, hits the nail on the head. It's just as naturally instinctive for humankind to avoid in-breeding as it is instinctive for a homosexual to be a homosexual. People are hard-wired to be what they are in that way. That's nature. Is nature wrong? It would be very arrogant for me to say so and furthermore, it doesn't matter. Nature was here a long time before me and will be here a long time after I'm gone. There is no winning an argument with nature. I don't care what religion one follows. Nature makes no explainations and makes no apologies. Man, in all his folly, can, and will, create new gods and religions for as long as they are able to create. Laws and morals from culture to culture will come and go. But nature remains the same. In constant change following the absolute laws of physics and nature.


Nature dictates that there will be homosexuals, straights, rainbows, lightning, sunny days and cloudy mornings. Summers, winters. No religious edict will ever change any of that. The only way nature will change is if the laws of physics change/evolve but I highly doubt that. Got nothing to do with religion or taboo mojo.

 

[CriticalThought]

What the hell is Freud talkin' about...

Even Freud wouldn't argue with your view on homosexuality...

Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too. If you do not believe me, read the books of Havelock Ellis.

Freud on homosexuality: Letter to a mother — Warren Throckmorton

Of course that was in the latter part of his career. I think he was beginning to accept the limitations of his old theories.

 

[Captain America]

Well, Siggy better be glad he wrote that letter to his momma. I was about to go find him and bust him up.

I used to tell the best queer jokes around. I never harbored any ill feelings towards gays, I was just going with the flow.

Then I met Jennie and Janice. I love them like my own family. Then I met some of their friends. Then I realized they are people just like anyone else. Except better, in some cases.

 

[Jerry]

Oh? How convienent that they can be taken as literal for centuries but when it becomes self evident the earth is round, they are suddenly "figurative".

Hey, I'm just using the same scripture that the Church used for centureis to support its position.

The Catholic church liberalizes a poem to gain political power in the midevil era and all of a sudden that's supposed to represent all Christians, even non-Catholics, forever.

Talk about your over generalization.

This is as if some future archeologist discovers a document with someone at some point saying "well I'll be a monkey's uncle", then someone like you comes along and is like "RFOLZOMG thy thunk thy wr monkyz LOLKTHXBY".

 

[Jerry]

Has nothing to do with anything you suggest. Everyone thought the world was flat, including men of science. The Bible never said it was, the closest it comes is four corners. A figure of speech used before and since figuratively.

Only the kook fringe, a few small sects of secluded minorities manipulated by those in power, ever believed the earth was flat. The Mayans knew it was round, they even mapped out precession (a cycle which takes 10,000 years to complete). The ancient Hebrews and Egyptians knew it was round, and they built the Earth's dimensions into the Great Pyramid. Hell Columbus was using Marco Polo's measurements of the Earth's spherical dimensions when he went to the Queen of Spain to get funding to establish a new shipping lane.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Only the kook fringe, a few small sects of secluded minorities manipulated by those in power, ever believed the earth was flat. The Mayans knew it was round, they even mapped out precession (a cycle which takes 10,000 years to complete). The ancient Hebrews and Egyptians knew it was round, and they built the Earth's dimensions into the Great Pyramid. Hell Columbus was using Marco Polo's measurements of the Earth's spherical dimensions when he went to the Queen of Spain to get funding to establish a new shipping lane.

The belief in a flat earth was widespread in Christian society for about 800 years. The ancient hebrews' believed the old testament. The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians.

 

[Wake]

The belief in a flat earth was widespread in Christian society for about 800 years. The ancient hebrews' believed the old testament. The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians.

Would you please support your claims?

 

[Jerry]

The belief in a flat earth was widespread in Christian society for about 800 years.

Except that it wasn't.

The ancient hebrews' believed the old testament.

Yes they believed the Torah, but that doesn't mean they took poetry literally.

The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians.

The Mayans could have been Santa's Elves and that doesn't mean Christians thought the Earth was Flat. And yes, Spanish (ie, not Da' white man) Conquistadors ****ed their **** up. That doesn't mean the Mayans thought the Earth was flat.

 

[Black Dog]

The belief in a flat earth was widespread in Christian society for about 800 years. The ancient hebrews' believed the old testament. The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians.

Ahhh no...

The myth that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat was given a massive boost by Andrew Dickson White's weighty tome The Warfare of Science with Theology. This book has become something of a running joke among historians of science and it is dutifully mentioned as a prime example of misinformation in the preface of most modern works on science and religion. The flat Earth is discussed in chapter 2 and one can almost sense White's confusion that hardly any of the sources support his hypothesis that Christians widely believed in it. He finds himself grudgingly admitting that Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Isodore, Albertus Magnus and Aquinas all accepted the Earth was a globe - in other words none of the great doctors of the church had considered the matter in doubt. Although an analysis of what White actually says suggests he was aware that the flat Earth was largely a myth, he certainly gives an impression of ignorant Christians suppressing rational knowledge of its real shape. - The Myth of the Flat Earth

The early Christian Church accepted Aristotle's spherical earth. But a few malcontents within the Church pointed out that the Bible speaks of 'the four corners' of the earth. In the 5th century CE the monk Cosmas Indicopleustes, in his Christian Topography, described a square earth with a heavenly vault, much like the Egyptian model. Tertulian also was a flat-earther. - http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/flat/flateart.htm

Most of the ancient world had weird idea's about the shape of the earth. The Bible however does not say it is flat.

The ancients had many novel ideas about the shape of the earth. The Babylonians thought the earth was hollow, to provide space for their underworld. The Egyptians thought the earth a square, (with four corners) with mountains at the edge supporting the vault of the sky. - http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/flat/flateart.htm

The Mayans fell or better yet disappeared around 800 to 900 AD. So no, no "loving Christians" had anything at all to do with the end of the Mayans.

There are many theories that try and explain the mystery embedded within the context of the Fall of the Mayan Civilization. Not only have there been numerous expeditions to the region, but also various studies done to prove the reasons for the fall. Some of the reasons for this fall include a shrinking of the rain forests in the region, uncontrolled warfare, a disintegrating agricultural system, over population, warfare, and drought. Some historians even believe that all of these things could have been a factor in the destruction of this once vast civilization. - http://wikis.lib.ncsu.edu/index.php...raphy,_and_the_fall_of_the_Mayan_Civilization

It pays to know your history before making statements of fact.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Except that it wasn't.

Ancient Near East

Imago Mundi Babylonian map, the oldest known world map, 6th century BCE Babylonia.In early Egyptian[8] and Mesopotamian thought the world was portrayed as a flat disk floating in the ocean. A similar model is found in the Homeric account of the 8th century BCE in which "Okeanos, the personified body of water surrounding the circular surface of the Earth, is the begetter of all life and possibly all the gods,".[9]

The Hebrew Bible carried forward the ancient Middle Eastern cosmology, such as in the Enuma Elish, which described a flat earth with a solid roof, surrounded by water above and below,[10][11] as illustrated by references to the "foundations of the earth" and the "circle of the earth" in the following examples:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."[12]
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world."[13]
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."[14]
There are isolated quotations which can be taken as evidence of something different:

"He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing."[15]
but these are complicated by references to "pillars of the heavens" in subsequent stanzas.
Flat Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not only did many Christians think the earth was flat, they believed the sun and stars rotated around the earth.

Galileo affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Ahhh no...

The myth that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat was given a massive boost by Andrew Dickson White's weighty tome The Warfare of Science with Theology. This book has become something of a running joke among historians of science and it is dutifully mentioned as a prime example of misinformation in the preface of most modern works on science and religion. The flat Earth is discussed in chapter 2 and one can almost sense White's confusion that hardly any of the sources support his hypothesis that Christians widely believed in it. He finds himself grudgingly admitting that Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Isodore, Albertus Magnus and Aquinas all accepted the Earth was a globe - in other words none of the great doctors of the church had considered the matter in doubt. Although an analysis of what White actually says suggests he was aware that the flat Earth was largely a myth, he certainly gives an impression of ignorant Christians suppressing rational knowledge of its real shape. - The Myth of the Flat Earth

The early Christian Church accepted Aristotle's spherical earth. But a few malcontents within the Church pointed out that the Bible speaks of 'the four corners' of the earth. In the 5th century CE the monk Cosmas Indicopleustes, in his Christian Topography, described a square earth with a heavenly vault, much like the Egyptian model. Tertulian also was a flat-earther. - The Flat Earth.

Most of the ancient world had weird idea's about the shape of the earth. The Bible however does not say it is flat.

The ancients had many novel ideas about the shape of the earth. The Babylonians thought the earth was hollow, to provide space for their underworld. The Egyptians thought the earth a square, (with four corners) with mountains at the edge supporting the vault of the sky. - The Flat Earth.

The Mayans fell or better yet disappeared around 800 to 900 AD. So no, no "loving Christians" had anything at all to do with the end of the Mayans.

There are many theories that try and explain the mystery embedded within the context of the Fall of the Mayan Civilization. Not only have there been numerous expeditions to the region, but also various studies done to prove the reasons for the fall. Some of the reasons for this fall include a shrinking of the rain forests in the region, uncontrolled warfare, a disintegrating agricultural system, over population, warfare, and drought. Some historians even believe that all of these things could have been a factor in the destruction of this once vast civilization. - General history, geography, and the fall of the Mayan Civilization - WolfWikis

It pays to know your history before making statements of fact.

Boo.

The Maya peoples never disappeared, neither at the time of the Classic period decline nor with the arrival of the Spanish conquistadores and the subsequent Spanish colonization of the Americas. Today, the Maya and their descendants form sizable populations throughout the Maya area and maintain a distinctive set of traditions and beliefs that are the result of the merger of pre-Columbian and post-Conquest ideas and cultures.

Maya civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jerry]

Flat Earth
Isaiah 11:12

So you don't think a sphere can be divided into 4 parts? Wow, I did stuff like that in high school. Test questions would be like "what is 1/4 of the surface of a sphere if it's dimensions are...."

Revelation 7:1

Expression of speech.

Job 38:13

The entire book of Job is a work of fiction. Way to take what actually is a fairy tail seriously.

Jeremiah 16:19

Expression of speech.

Daniel 4:11

Yeah you like to talk ****, but I bet you call certain buildings "sky scrapers".

***
Ok, before I go to Psalms, you realize these are just songs, as artistic expressions, right? I mean, we lowly x-ians know this going in, and so should you.

Psalm 104:5 [& Psalm 96:10]

The Earth has foundations, it's orbit around the sun being one. Think this passage is wrong? Ok, move the Earth from orbit and I'll concede the point.

I bet the site you pasted these from thought "can not be moved" meant "does not move".

Psalm 93:1

Right, again, the Earth is not about to fly off into space, nor is it going to explode.

Ecclesiastes 1:5

And even today, with all our science, you still call it a sun rise even though you know damn well the sun hasn't gon anywhere.

I wonder: did you capture the overall lesson Ecclesiastes 1? I would guess not as you seem to think it was a technical manual on astronomy.

 

[Jerry]

Not only did many Christians think the earth was flat, they believed the sun and stars rotated around the earth.

Galileo affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Except that they didn't, sure.

 

[Black Dog]

Boo.
Maya civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a far cry from...

The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians. - Catz

I on the other hand should have said "society" like the article.

 

[CriticalThought]

...RFOLZOMG thy thunk thy wr monkyz LOLKTHXBY".

This is the coolest thing I have ever heard you say on this forum. :mrgreen:

 

[Catz Part Deux]

This is a far cry from...

The Mayans, in particular, were "deluded pagans" who were slaughtered wholesale by loving Christians. - Catz

I on the other hand should have said "society" like the article.

Are you saying the inhabitants of central America WEREN'T slaughtered?

 

[obvious Child]

Are you saying the inhabitants of central America WEREN'T slaughtered?

Catz, you're a little off here.

Biological warfare killed most of them. By the time various dieases the Spanish brought over were done with Latin America, relatively few natives were left. While Chile isn't a part of Central America, many of the tribes there were utterly decimated by various dieases.

 

[Jerry]

Catz, you're a little off here.

Biological warfare killed most of them. By the time various dieases the Spanish brought over were done with Latin America, relatively few natives were left. While Chile isn't a part of Central America, many of the tribes there were utterly decimated by various dieases.

Don't forget that the 'natives didn't exactly stop any of their exiting wars with other tribes just because da 'white man showed up.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I think it's fair to source a belief system's reference material because the OP is asking why homosexuality falls on the "wrong" side of any given belief system.

If you are going to present it as your own opinion, fine. As facts... not a chance.