Protesters block Betsy DeVos from entering public school in Washington

[OpportunityCost]

Why are you NOT talking about the thread topic?

Why aren't you?

 

[poweRob]

No doubt written by a public school graduate.

Are you a private school graduate or public school graduate?

 

[haymarket]

Why aren't you?

I am trying to get you back on track...... its a public service.

 

[minnie616]

So you STILL don't get it. Voucher/charter schools should be focused on specific groups of kids, that's their biggest strength. I've made REALLY clear time and again and you just ignore what I say. So you're not here to have a conversation, just to push ONE idea to the exclusion of all others.

No, you do not understand if charter schools accept only specific groups without including all types of students ,they are practicing discrimination, usually against the very poor , the physcially challenged , or those with learning differences/disabilities. Then they claim that since they are privately owned they do not need to held to same accountability as public school.

There are students that have learning differences who could benefit from a charter school that concentrates on performing arts as an example. Tom Cruise and Orlando Blood have dyslexia yet they could memorize his lines ( even if he can't read or write well.

There are students who have learning differences who are great at drawing and would benefit greatly from a charter school concentrating on art. Walt Disney had Dislexia and was a great cartoonist.

Albert Eienstine and Thomas Edision were famous scientists who had dyslexia.

 

[humbolt]

Studying a mans many books, his other writings , his countless interviews, his hundreds of speeches, his many public actions, and court records and documents is hardly drive by diagnosis and anyone trying to foist that falsehood is guilty of intellectual dishonesty in the extreme.

Right. I didn't say it was completely unfounded. I said it has as much believability, and professionalism for that matter, as someone calling a neurosurgeon, describing a headache, and the surgeon pronouncing it a tumor. It's not credible, and you know it. Reminds me of the Kindergartener telling Schwarzenegger he has a tumor causing his headache. "It's not a toomah!"

I get that you're pushing this line. It's not believable. It's partisan sensationalism laid bare. If you want to make a clinical evaluation of anybody, you'll have to do better. This is just horse **** being passed off as medical knowledge.

 

[Jack Hays]

Are you a private school graduate or public school graduate?

Oh, public school all the way. But we raised three children and for more than a decade there was a misspelled word in every child's classroom every year. As for myself, I was largely educated by my parents.

 

[faithful_servant]

No, you do not understand if charter schools accept only specific groups without including all types of students ,they are practicing discrimination, usually against the very poor , the physcially challenged , or those with learning differences/disabilities. Then they claim that since they are privately owned they do not need to held to same accountability as public school.

There are students that have learning differences who could benefit from a charter school that concentrates on performing arts as an example. Tom Cruise and Orlando Blood have dyslexia yet they could memorize his lines ( even if he can't read or write well.

There are students who have learning differences who are great at drawing and would benefit greatly from a charter school concentrating on art. Walt Disney had Dislexia and was a great cartoonist.

Albert Eienstine and Thomas Edision were famous scientists who had dyslexia.

So you're locked into the single line of thought that you've decided is the only possibility. Sad. Maybe you should take the time to go back read my earlier posts. I doubt that you read them when you replied to them,but hopefully you'll take the time to read them and actually try to learn something outside of your paradigm...

 

[upsideguy]

America spends more per student than almost every other nation

Yet our kids are dead last in math ands science worldwide

Sort of like we spend more of our GDP on healthcare than anyone else in the world and are dead last amongst so-called first world countries in life expectancy?

So, you are trying to tell us that kind of gross inefficiency has crept into the classroom as well? I guess we better do something about it...... wait, Republicans didn't want to do anything about healthcare, even though its a much, much bigger problem. So, why the outrage now?

Wait again, Trump won on the backs of the uneducated. If there are enough of them to think Trump was a serious presidential candidate, I guess we do indeed have an educational crisis. Get busy!

 

[Mac77]

Sort of like we spend more of our GDP on healthcare than anyone else in the world and are dead last amongst so-called first world countries in life expectancy?

So, you are trying to tell us that kind of gross inefficiency has crept into the classroom as well? I guess we better do something about it...... wait, Republicans didn't want to do anything about healthcare, even though its a much, much bigger problem. So, why the outrage now?

Wait again, Trump won on the backs of the uneducated. If there are enough of them to think Trump was a serious presidential candidate, I guess we do indeed have an educational crisis. Get busy!

We have the best healthcare in the world

But not for everyone because some people can afford to pay for it and others can't

Which is the advantage and disadvantage of a market based system rather than socialized medicine

As for your smear of trump voters I don't care what you think because you lost the election

Liberals may think that the opinions of trump voters do not count but now you know otherwise since trump is president and Jeb or Hillary are not

 

[haymarket]

Right. I didn't say it was completely unfounded. I said it has as much believability, and professionalism for that matter, as someone calling a neurosurgeon, describing a headache, and the surgeon pronouncing it a tumor. It's not credible, and you know it. Reminds me of the Kindergartener telling Schwarzenegger he has a tumor causing his headache. "It's not a toomah!"

I get that you're pushing this line. It's not believable. It's partisan sensationalism laid bare. If you want to make a clinical evaluation of anybody, you'll have to do better. This is just horse **** being passed off as medical knowledge.

I completely and fully endorse the idea of a complete and thorough exam for Trump so that all these burning national questions about his suspected mental illness cane examined.

 

[Conservative]

Protesters block Betsy DeVos from entering public school - CNNPolitics.com



These protestors obviously went to these ****y schools.

Such maturity from the lefties. Just an endless mob of bullies, criminals, rioters, looters, and communists who hate free speech.

Isn't it great to see such tolerant leftwing radicals supporting the very principles they exercise everyday which is freedom of speech? Isn't it great the looters, rioters, bullies, criminals have a voice in our democracy and can do whatever they want to undermine the political process, the election results, and of course do this under the claim of promoting freedom, whose?

 

[Ikari]

In that discussion each side produces the studies and statistics to make its case. I've been in those threads and I don't think it matters.

Ahh, so data doesn't matter.

OK. Interesting world to live in.

Michagan schools continue to slip, I know I know, that's not a deflectionary statement, and not dealing with the issue, pretending there is no data point, is the only way you can progress your point. But there is a measurement.

Also studies of Louisiana's voucher system have shown that it has harmed overall education, not helped. I know, I know...we're not to speak of measurement because we need to dismiss dismiss dismiss. But measurements have been made.

 

[Conservative]

Sort of like we spend more of our GDP on healthcare than anyone else in the world and are dead last amongst so-called first world countries in life expectancy?

So, you are trying to tell us that kind of gross inefficiency has crept into the classroom as well? I guess we better do something about it...... wait, Republicans didn't want to do anything about healthcare, even though its a much, much bigger problem. So, why the outrage now?

Wait again, Trump won on the backs of the uneducated. If there are enough of them to think Trump was a serious presidential candidate, I guess we do indeed have an educational crisis. Get busy!

LOL, the backs of the uneducated? You mean the educated left that took the debt from 10.6 trillion to 20 trillion, implemented ACA that still has 33 million uninsured and has done nothing to improve the quality of healthcare, never had a yearly GDP of 3% coming off what the left calls the worst recession since the great depression, has 6 million employed part time for economic reasons because the Obama is so great and ACA so great that only part time jobs are created? Maybe these intellectuals could have done better at a charter school or other alternative education system rather than the public schools.

Make no mistake about it, this is about control of the dollars and about indoctrination which the left is good at. It is about creating career politicians that create dependence and keep it. Rather concerning that good people ignore the results and continue to buy the rhetoric. You are certainly smarter than this

 

[Ikari]

You know better than that. She does not set policy in Michigan. She may influence it but final policy comes from a lot of directions. My opinion is that private schools, charters and magnet schools can all offer services to compete with public education and in turn students win because competition tends to give better services.

Different education choices wouldn't even be a consideration if public education were performing better for students.

They can all compete, but private is private and because of that they receive private dollars, not public. Defunding public schools with no actual plan to improve them will only make the situation worse. And private schools get to be exclusive with their student bodies, public schools not so much. There are very significant issues with our public school system, and policies such as No Child Left Behind hadn't made the situation any better. It's not an easy fix, it's not a simple fix, but moving taxpayer dollars to the private sector is not going to cut it. If the public option exists, it must be funded appropriately and function well; no offshoring.

 

[Conservative]

Ahh, so data doesn't matter.

OK. Interesting world to live in.

Michagan schools continue to slip, I know I know, that's not a deflectionary statement, and not dealing with the issue, pretending there is no data point, is the only way you can progress your point. But there is a measurement.

Also studies of Florida's voucher system have shown that it has harmed overall education, not helped. I know, I know...we're not to speak of measurement because we need to dismiss dismiss dismiss. But measurements have been made.

So you think the problem is funding? Why is it that throwing money at the problem is always the answer and not once have I seen human behavior, discipline, personal responsibility, respect, or even tough love discussed? The problem today is the entitlement mentality and the tying of the hands of the Teachers through the PC crowd that doesn't allow for discipline and promotes outcome based education thus a dumbed down society.

 

[Ikari]

So you think the problem is funding?

I think there are a lot of problems and defunding the school system with no other plan in place to address the actual dynamics would be catastrophic for the public education system.

Why is it that throwing money at the problem is always the answer and not once have I seen human behavior, discipline, personal responsibility, respect, or even tough love discussed? The problem today is the entitlement mentality and the tying of the hands of the Teachers through the PC crowd that doesn't allow for discipline and promotes outcome based education thus a dumbed down society.

Red herring.

 

[Conservative]

They can all compete, but private is private and because of that they receive private dollars, not public. Defunding public schools with no actual plan to improve them will only make the situation worse. And private schools get to be exclusive with their student bodies, public schools not so much. There are very significant issues with our public school system, and policies such as No Child Left Behind hadn't made the situation any better. It's not an easy fix, it's not a simple fix, but moving taxpayer dollars to the private sector is not going to cut it. If the public option exists, it must be funded appropriately and function well; no offshoring.

Do you know where the funding comes from for our public school operations, major funding? So much misinformation here as more and more focus is on federal programs and not state and local. Funding keeps bureaucrats employed but does very little for the good of the people it supposedly was created to help. Tough love is the answer and I believe Trump Administration is doing just hat with DeVos

 

[Conservative]

I think there are a lot of problems and defunding the school system with no other plan in place to address the actual dynamics would be catastrophic for the public education system.



Red herring.

Only in your mind and of course posts like this one make way too much sense for you. Change is never easy and people like you always promote change as long as it affects someone else and you can continue doing what you want to do. The public schools are a disaster because of the interference from the left and that PC mentality. Let schools teach, let those schools be run by the parents and local community not the federal bureaucrats who buy votes

 

[OpportunityCost]

They can all compete, but private is private and because of that they receive private dollars, not public. Defunding public schools with no actual plan to improve them will only make the situation worse. And private schools get to be exclusive with their student bodies, public schools not so much. There are very significant issues with our public school system, and policies such as No Child Left Behind hadn't made the situation any better. It's not an easy fix, it's not a simple fix, but moving taxpayer dollars to the private sector is not going to cut it. If the public option exists, it must be funded appropriately and function well; no offshoring.

I can sum this up really easily for you.



They are completely, totally concerned about political points and completely, totally unconcerned about the school.

 

[Ikari]

Do you know where the funding comes from for our public school operations, major funding?

Is it private dollars? If not, then it changes nothing.

So much misinformation here as more and more focus is on federal programs and not state and local. Funding keeps bureaucrats employed but does very little for the good of the people it supposedly was created to help. Tough love is the answer and I believe Trump Administration is doing just hat with DeVos

Straw man

 

[Conservative]

Is it private dollars? If not, then it changes nothing.



Straw man

It is state and local dollars thus where it belongs, Federal interference continues to be the problem as it does nothing to change human behavior

Everything that disagrees with you is a strawman as you ignore the influence of dollars in our political system today. Democrats fight a lot harder, protest a lot louder and more dangerously than conservatives and thus get all the press. If I paid any attention to the press today i would be easily indoctrinated into the leftwing ideology but I don't, too smart for that

 

[Ikari]

Only in your mind and of course posts like this one make way too much sense for you. Change is never easy and people like you always promote change as long as it affects someone else and you can continue doing what you want to do. The public schools are a disaster because of the interference from the left and that PC mentality. Let schools teach, let those schools be run by the parents and local community not the federal bureaucrats who buy votes

OK, there are certainly many ways to change the system, not sure your biased, hyperpartisan look at it is the actual reality, but clearly there is a necessity to change how we're running the system.

But defunding the public school system with no plan to make those changes will make everything worse. Private doesn't have to take everyone, private is exclusive. Taking money away and doing nothing to fix the problems will only exacerbate the current situation, not improve it.

If we can do more for less, then by all means we should do it. And I would still say no to vouchers. Reduce the budget and the various taxes tied to public funding appropriately, run it efficiently. But you'll have to do the math, you'll have to do the work to see how we improve education and cut costs. It's not just so simple to sit back and say "vouchers!", when we cannot even show they are beneficial and indeed data seems to speak to the contrary.

 

[Ikari]

It is state and local dollars thus where it belongs, Federal interference continues to be the problem as it does nothing to change human behavior

Everything that disagrees with you is a strawman as you ignore the influence of dollars in our political system today. Democrats fight a lot harder, protest a lot louder and more dangerously than conservatives and thus get all the press. If I paid any attention to the press today i would be easily indoctrinated into the leftwing ideology but I don't, too smart for that

I do not ignore the influence of dollars. It's just that these deflections are all you have because you have no real plan to fix the system or cut costs. Vouchers are not magic, nor have they demonstrated themselves to be of little impact and benefit on the whole. So you engage in Red Herring and Straw Man fallacies because it's easier to deflect than to deal with the reality.

Unless you have an actual path to improve public education, defunding it will not improve it.

 

[Conservative]

OK, there are certainly many ways to change the system, not sure your biased, hyperpartisan look at it is the actual reality, but clearly there is a necessity to change how we're running the system.

But defunding the public school system with no plan to make those changes will make everything worse. Private doesn't have to take everyone, private is exclusive. Taking money away and doing nothing to fix the problems will only exacerbate the current situation, not improve it.

If we can do more for less, then by all means we should do it. And I would still say no to vouchers. Reduce the budget and the various taxes tied to public funding appropriately, run it efficiently. But you'll have to do the math, you'll have to do the work to see how we improve education and cut costs. It's not just so simple to sit back and say "vouchers!", when we cannot even show they are beneficial and indeed data seems to speak to the contrary.

Who is defunding the public schools? You apparently still have no idea where the major funding comes from, state and local taxes including lottery. Changing behavior has to happen and competition will do just that

 

[Ikari]

Who is defunding the public schools?

The public.

You apparently still have no idea where the major funding comes from, state and local taxes including lottery. Changing behavior has to happen and competition will do just that

it's best you don't assume, and stick to the topic. These little deflections will get you no where.

Unless you have an actual path to improve public education, defunding it will not improve it.