Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:963:1176:1448]

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Yeah it changing alright, lower credit rating, higher debt, smaller work force, it won't be long until people that believe as you will simply be bait.

Sooo...I'll ask you the same thing I ask all the other conservatives: why is it, then, that ALL first-world democracies are socialized democracies with social safety nets? I mean, the first-world (and ALL socialized) democracies have been on top since WWII - nobody other than a few hideous-oil-wealthy OPEC nations have made it into the First World...not even China.

Now, seeing as how ALL the first-world democracies have the kind of economic system that conservative dogma says should doom us all to the economic dustbin of history...why ain't it happening? Why hasn't it happened since FDR instituted the New Deal EIGHTY years ago? And why haven't ANY nations with small government, low effective taxes, and little or no regulation made it into the First World?

In other words, conservative economic dogma does NOT explain why the world is the way it is today. If conservative economic dogma were true, the socialized democracies would be third world nations already, and the First World would be comprised of Randian paradises.

But it hasn't happened that way, has it? WHY?

Don't feel bad if you can't figure out a good answer - so far, in all the conservatives I've pointed this out to, NONE - not a single one - has been able to give a cogent answer. Your turn.

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Sooo...I'll ask you the same thing I ask all the other conservatives: why is it, then, that ALL first-world democracies are socialized democracies with social safety nets?

There are no democracies.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

flats taxes are fair, progressive taxing is discrimination, so liberals support discrimination. who would have thought that?

Riiiiiight. Let's feel sorry for those poor, poor, disadvantaged megamillionaires.....

There's Donald Trump there on a street corner, begging for a few dollars to stock the champagne rack on his Learjet. Be sure you give him a few dollars as you walk by....

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Sooo...I'll ask you the same thing I ask all the other conservatives: why is it, then, that ALL first-world democracies are socialized democracies with social safety nets? I mean, the first-world (and ALL socialized) democracies have been on top since WWII - nobody other than a few hideous-oil-wealthy OPEC nations have made it into the First World...not even China.

Now, seeing as how ALL the first-world democracies have the kind of economic system that conservative dogma says should doom us all to the economic dustbin of history...why ain't it happening? Why hasn't it happened since FDR instituted the New Deal EIGHTY years ago? And why haven't ANY nations with small government, low effective taxes, and little or no regulation made it into the First World?

In other words, conservative economic dogma does NOT explain why the world is the way it is today. If conservative economic dogma were true, the socialized democracies would be third world nations already, and the First World would be comprised of Randian paradises.

But it hasn't happened that way, has it? WHY?

Don't feel bad if you can't figure out a good answer - so far, in all the conservatives I've pointed this out to, NONE - not a single one - has been able to give a cogent answer. Your turn.

Who to they look to when their asses need baling out? Any idea? probably not. Also many of the countries you worship are the about the size of TX and treat their people like cattle, actually our cattle have it better.

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Riiiiiight. Let's feel sorry for those poor, poor, disadvantaged megamillionaires.....

There's Donald Trump there on a street corner, begging for a few dollars to stock the champagne rack on his Learjet. Be sure you give him a few dollars as you walk by....

class envy does not change your dishonesty and lack of integrity

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You are dishonest enough to dismiss this argument. Slavery was about forced servitude, robbing the rich of their earning from their labor is the same

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - FDR

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - FDR

yeah quote the guy responsible for more small business failures than any President in our history with his NRA legislation that SCOTUS had to stop but they were tool late

 

[beerftw]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I think you meant to say, "most REPUBLICANS" aren't interested in what you're selling", because most AMERICANS support Democrats. Democratic House candidates received more than a million more votes than Republican House candidates did...but thanks to gerrymandering, the Republicans maintained their majority in the House.

In other words, there's more of US than there are of YOU. America's changing, guy, and you can't stop it. Get used to it.

for starters,house votes dont go off nationwide votes,never have and never will,they are decided by district,all it takes is a few districts overwhelmingly democrat to throw off combined national vote,but lose in number of electees.last time i checked,sanfran people didnt vote on house representatives in texas,and texas voters didnt vote on the representative of the district san fran is under.

second,the whole they gerry mander bs is nothing but sore losers whining.the democrats have had most the country gerrymandered for decades in a way rural voters have little say,the republicans reversed it in their favor,but somehow democrats are angels when they gerrymander for decades,but when republicans do it to break decades long control of the democrat house through gerrymandering,they are devils.


lastly conservatives vastly outnumber liberals in america,not sure about todays numbers,but last i checked,just tea party supporters outnumbered all liberals nationwide,and were around half the overall conservatives,conservatives are the largest ideology in america,even the democratic party touting how liberal it ishas more moderates than liberals,and has around 10% conservatives.so in fact liberals in general are the super minority in america,maybe thats why more candidates push to be moderate or even appeal to a small degree to conservatives.

if candidates had ran simply appeasing people like you aka die hard liberal,they would lose and only gain a little over 20% of the vote,which is the liberal base plus die hards who would vote democrat even if adolph hitler was ressurected and ran.the others ould vote the opposite,seek a third party,or just not vote.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

We don't have to shove. If you'll check, the great majority of young adults are quite liberal. The change is happening, and nothing this side of a right-wing coup or something that shuts down the entire internet can stop it. The efforts of the Right, such as gerrymandering and voter suppression, are nothing more than delaying actions.

when they start having children and paying taxes many of them cast off the foolish trappings of childhood-such as liberalism (statist dependency)

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - FDR

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." -- FDR

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I'm not against the progressive tax system. IMO, it only makes sense. I am opposed to those taxes collected going to bloated and overreaching social welfare programs (progressive distribution of taxes). The tax system shouldn't put undue burden on the poor. They are the most vulnerable financially. Nor should the taxes collected be used in an other than extremely limited safety net way regarding social welfare, such that people can only access that safety net for a limited amount of time, and also limited application in a given range of years (e.g. 6 months of unemployment benefits and/or 6 months food stamps (paid concurrently or otherwise), within a 10 year period (or something to that effect)). Also, for programs like social security, one should only be able to take out what they've put in taking into account inflation and special circumstances.

About that 'limited unemployment benefits' observation. You do know, don't you, that there are three people actively looking for work for every single job that's available, right? So two out of those three ain't going to get a job no matter what...and that's even assuming that the lucky ones all qualify for the jobs that are available.

Let's say we cut off those unemployment benefits - what happens to those who have no job and absolutely no money? They (and all too often, their family) are out on the street. So how, then, are they supposed to get a job? How easy is it for a homeless person to get a job? If it was very difficult before they were homeless, now it's damned near impossible since they no longer have a way to take a shower and shave, much less maintain decent clothing.

So what happens? More crime. More problems for businesses and homes near where those homeless are. And higher taxes and retail costs for the rest of us to pay for the increased law enforcement and business insurance costs.

In other words, YOU PAY ANYWAY. Whether the people are receiving unemployment benefits or on the streets, YOU PAY ANYWAY. One way, there's still hope that someday they'll get a job - the other way, there's almost no way they'll get a job, and a much greater chance that they'll become part of the largest and most expensive prison system in the world.

YOU PAY ANYWAY, guy. You just have to ask yourself which is the wiser choice in the macroeconomic picture?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

"Taxes, are the dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - FDR

sadly many voters get all the benefits and privileges but don't pay nearly enough dues

FDR is pretty much the mother of all turds to those of us who prefer a limited federal government as the founders intended

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Let's say we cut off those unemployment benefits - what happens to those who have no job and absolutely no money?

They get a job.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

when they start having children and paying taxes many of them cast off the foolish trappings of childhood-such as liberalism (statist dependency)

Just like they did in the rest of the first-world democracies, hm?

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Just like they did in the rest of the first-world democracies, hm?

There are not any democracies in the world.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

They get a job.

There's three people looking for work, for every job that's available. Your "get a job" reply is simplistic and naive.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

There are not any democracies in the world.

Says the guy with no clue about the rest of the world.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Just like they did in the rest of the first-world democracies, hm?

Liberalism is generally appealing to people who never want to grow up and more troubling-to people who want to treat everyone else as children

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

There's three people looking for work, for every job that's available.

Deliver pizzas.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Democrat is not liberal.

True, strictly speaking...but you also know very well that the two major parties are more polarized than at any time since the Civil War. There ARE conservative Democrats - though only a few - but 'liberal Republican' has become an oxymoron.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Deliver pizzas.

One guy gets to do that - the others are still out of a job.

There's THREE people looking for every SINGLE job that's available, guy - and a LOT of those jobs require specialized skills that MOST people don't have.

But I get it - that requires understanding, a smidgen of empathy, and a little elementary math...and as such means nothing to you.

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

About that 'limited unemployment benefits' observation. You do know, don't you, that there are three people actively looking for work for every single job that's available, right? So two out of those three ain't going to get a job no matter what...and that's even assuming that the lucky ones all qualify for the jobs that are available.

Really, is that why all those hispanics risk their lives to cross the border illegally knowing they have a job when they get here?

the programming is deep in this one

 

[scatt]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

One guy gets to do that - the others are still out of a job.

I am not interested in survey statistics.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Liberalism is generally appealing to people who never want to grow up and more troubling-to people who want to treat everyone else as children

That's your assumption, guy - that's what conservatives LOVE to tell each other...without ever bothering to ask the people who don't think like they do.

For instance - if your assumption were true, then the VAST majority of minorities would not have voted for Obama in the past two elections (and in the last one, the minority with the highest vote for Obama was the ASIAN-American community, and not the Black community). If your claim were true, then most of the mature (and more likely to vote) population of these minorities would not have voted for Obama.

And you can't blame it on race, either, because there's been long-standing friction between the Hispanics and the Blacks, and the Asians and the Blacks.

But all these are only facts, and as such mean nothing within your conservative echo chamber where you hear only what you want to hear.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

That's your assumption, guy - that's what conservatives LOVE to tell each other...without ever bothering to ask the people who don't think like they do.

For instance - if your assumption were true, then the VAST majority of minorities would not have voted for Obama in the past two elections (and in the last one, the minority with the highest vote for Obama was the ASIAN-American community, and not the Black community). If your claim were true, then most of the mature (and more likely to vote) population of these minorities would not have voted for Obama.

And you can't blame it on race, either, because there's been long-standing friction between the Hispanics and the Blacks, and the Asians and the Blacks.

But all these are only facts, and as such mean nothing within your conservative echo chamber where you hear only what you want to hear.

I stand by what I said. those who want handouts or to control other people tend to vote for Democrats