Praying in Jesus' name angers democrat lawmakers

[Magdalene]

When and how did that happen?

Seriously? Do you watch any news or read papers? I don't have time to search for you at the moment, I have to get off here. But if you do a search, you will find information.

 

[Lisa]

Seriously? Do you watch any news or read papers? I don't have time to search for you at the moment, I have to get off here. But if you do a search, you will find information.

I read 2 papers a day and listen to the BBC/NPR/PBS. What did I miss or what did you imagine?

 

[HenryChinaski]

LOL! Do you understand though, that we are supposed to spread the gospel? Granted, many do not want to hear it. But we are told to do that and try to save people.

Great, that’s a good way to get fired from most jobs. This is also a situation where an air horn would come quite in handy..

 

[marke]

The House leadership was wrong by bringing religion into the government and asking anyone to pray. Can Muslim or other religion required that you kneel toward Mecca or sit and meditate as part of their duties as a civil servant, or would that be a violation of your relgious rights and the separation of church and state?

Why are you ignoring the direct teachings of Jesus as recorded in Matthew 6:6-7? Why do you need an atheist to quote your bible to you? You should already know this passasge.

Modern democrats think praying before opening a government meeting is unConstitutional, but democrats are wrong. Americans have been doing that for hundreds of years and modern ignorance of the Constitution should never stop that tradition.

 

[marke]

IF modern reganomic conservatives hadn't destroyed our economy and shipped our jobs You and Don Vito wouldn't have anything to Again about.

The rest of your post is answered by Lisa's post #53.

Are you complaining about the American economy under Trump? Obama was elected president just after the collapse of Wall Street in 2008, but he was optimistic. He predicted he would rescue the American economy from the depression within 3 years or he was done. He proved to be too optimistic. However, in just a few months under Trump the economy made massive improvements, which I was even surprised by.

 

[marke]

I know you trumpsters think that this is a Cjristian nation and thus should be allowed to make it the unofficial official religion, but the forefathers made sure the the 1st Amenedment that it would not happne. Saying a prayer in one religion violates the 1st Amendment, but of course the only amendemtn you actually worry about is the 2nd.

Modern Christians did not recently invent the long held American tradition of opening assemblies in prayer. Democrats should not be trying to stop that practice because of their disrespect for God and Christians.

 

[marke]

The strict separation of church and state also applies to her religious beliefs being banned from government time and policy. Do you feel persecuted or threatened by the fact that a Muslim woman is a member of the state legislature?

BTW, I thought that you said that Democrats were godless atheists and heathens?

I am not offended over either. Let the Muslim promote her religion in public and let the Christian promote her religion in public. That is the essence of the 1st Amendment protections under the Constitution.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Are you complaining about the American economy under Trump? Obama was elected president just after the collapse of Wall Street in 2008, but he was optimistic. He predicted he would rescue the American economy from the depression within 3 years or he was done. He proved to be too optimistic. However, in just a few months under Trump the economy made massive improvements, which I was even surprised by.

Well, there you go again; the post you replied to says NOTHIG and references NOTHING about tRump.

BUT! IF, you want to go there reference ANY economic graph over the last ~ six/seven years and you will see that if anything the GDP has slightly dipped, a couple times, under "tRump"; and debt is going up



Obama was handed an economy on the bottom floor of the parking garage and handed tRump an economy in the penthouse and he's … changed nothing. <--period GDP is linear and dipping, Federal Debt is beginning to accelerate (thanks GOP), Public Debt - same, intergovernmental debt - linear.

You shouldn't be surprised because:

 

[Lisa]

Modern democrats think praying before opening a government meeting is unConstitutional, but democrats are wrong. Americans have been doing that for hundreds of years and modern ignorance of the Constitution should never stop that tradition.

What is the secular goal of that prayer because government endorsement of religious belief over non-belief or government endorsement of one religion over the other is prohibited by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was written in 1802 and has been used by the SCOTUS to define the Establishment Clause.

The gospel of Matthew tells Christians not to engage in public prayer, so why are you ignoring the direct teachings of your savior? Was Jesus also a Democrat?

 

[Lisa]

I am not offended over either. Let the Muslim promote her religion in public and let the Christian promote her religion in public. That is the essence of the 1st Amendment protections under the Constitution.

They can do it on their own time and not when they are working for the taxpayer dollar because The state is not to be used as a platform for either evangelization or religious conversion. They were elected to be civil servants and to represent all people equally, regardless of religious belief or lack therof. They are also not to work as missionaries for any religion on government time.

 

[trouble13]

The objections are not to prayer in public, but to mandating "public prayer", that is, requiring members of the public besides themselves to participate in prayer. If someone wants to pray at an event or anywhere where others are present that's perfectly fine, just do it privately as prayers should be.

Even if thats the case, it is still based on something that is oten misunderstood about the separation of church and state. It prevents the gov from establishing an offical religion but it does preclude the gov from acknowledging that religious beliefs.

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[JackA]

Even if thats the case, it is still based on something that is oten misunderstood about the separation of church and state. It prevents the gov from establishing an offical religion but it does preclude the gov from acknowledging that religious beliefs.

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How would you feel in a setting where you were expected to join in Muslim prayer? The question is not of the government "acknowledging" religious beliefs - although that is not the government's place, but of societal strictures that impose the expectation of specific religious observance or any kind of religious observance in group settings. Religion should always be treated as personal. This isn't so much Constitutional law on the separation of church and state but the idea of that separation in every day life.

 

[Lisa]

Even if thats the case, it is still based on something that is oten misunderstood about the separation of church and state. It prevents the gov from establishing an offical religion but it does preclude the gov from acknowledging that religious beliefs.

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The state is to be absolutely neutral on the issue of religion and religious beliefs so as to protect the religious and secular rights of all parties equally, so what is the point of acknowledging the religious beliefs of any one person or group?

 

[trouble13]

How would you feel in a setting where you were expected to join in Muslim prayer? The question is not of the government "acknowledging" religious beliefs - although that is not the government's place, but of societal strictures that impose the expectation of specific religious observance or any kind of religious observance in group settings. Religion should always be treated as personal. This isn't so much Constitutional law on the separation of church and state but the idea of that separation in every day life.

I've been in that situation many times. I am an atheist. I bow my head or whatever snd respectfully wait for them to be done with their ritual.

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[CaughtInThe]

Words like the OP are what keep the most fringe Christians united.

Unfortunately, the most fringe elements of Christianity have been growing in numbers since the 1960s. Traditional and good hearted Christians simply won't speak up and drown out the fringe which is the exact same thing that happens in Muslim countries. Just with Islam.

 

[JackA]

I've been in that situation many times. I am an atheist. I bow my head or whatever snd respectfully wait for them to be done with their ritual.

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I'm the same and quietly wait too, keeping to myself my opinion that what they are doing is out of place in a secular arena.

 

[trouble13]

The state is to be absolutely neutral on the issue of religion and religious beliefs so as to protect the religious and secular rights of all parties equally, so what is the point of acknowledging the religious beliefs of any one person or group?

What does the phrase "absolutely neutral" mean to you?

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[JustHanging]

Not surprising at all.

Agreed. Some people are all for praying to their storybook character, but if other people want to pray to a different storybook character, the **** hits the proverbial fan.

Can you imagine if State legislators started praying to Allah before opening voting?

 

[Lisa]

What does the phrase "absolutely neutral" mean to you?

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All religion is to be kept out of government at all levels, just as Jefferson and Madison intended.

 

[Tigerace117]

Democrats may be a house divided, but they seem universally opposed to praying in Jesus' name. This Christian lawmaker opened a legislative session with a prayer and by the time she had mentioned Jesus several times in her prayer the democrats had become unhinged. They were especially outraged in sympathy with the new Black Muslim lawmaker there who was outraged by the prayer.

Democrats talk about America but their brand of America is not the same God Bless America we have traditionally recognized. Their brand of America is the unholy socialist atheistic "Goddamn America" the immoral democrats are out to create.

Democrats, Muslim lawmaker decry Christian prayer in Penn. House as divisive | The Times of Israel

“Muslim” and “atheistic” are mutually exclusive bud.

 

[trouble13]

All religion is to be kept out of government at all levels, just as Jefferson and Madison intended.

Would you ban people from wearing crosses on necklaces? How far do you go with your opinion?

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[Tigerace117]

So fundamental Christians should be forced to tolerate those whose beliefs are different, but not vice versa?

Considering how many folks fundamentalist Christians have slaughtered over the years.... that’d be a good start.

 

[marke]

What is the secular goal of that prayer because government endorsement of religious belief over non-belief or government endorsement of one religion over the other is prohibited by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was written in 1802 and has been used by the SCOTUS to define the Establishment Clause.

The gospel of Matthew tells Christians not to engage in public prayer, so why are you ignoring the direct teachings of your savior? Was Jesus also a Democrat?

Are you saying you believe Americans have been wrong by the tens of millions for hundreds of years for opening meetings with prayer?

 

[Lisa]

Would you ban people from wearing crosses on necklaces? How far do you go with your opinion?

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No, that is protected.

This only applies to prayer, evangelization, the legislation of religious belief as law or other public religious observance. Your religious jewerly is protected, unless it is 9" tall and you are in a public school classroom or as a civil servant where it is obvious to others that you are very religious, so as to give the impression that fellow Christians might receive an advantage. All people must be treated equally regardless of their relgious beliefs or lack thereof, by the state and those people who are civil servants.

 

[vegas giants]

Are you saying you believe Americans have been wrong by the tens of millions for hundreds of years for opening meetings with prayer?

Yep. Wrong. Slavery lasted longer than that and that was wrong too