Pope Tells Gay Man: ‘God Made You Like This and Loves You Like This’

[Excon]

I can't really debate this with you because you're debating within the confines of a fantasy -- a myth.

1. That is your belief.
2. Of course you can't because you choose not to debate within the confines of the beliefs this topic applies to. Outside of those confines is a different topic.

It's like trying to debate someone on why something happened in a Harry Potter book or arguing whether or not the Easter Rabbit leaves plastic or chocolate eggs.

iLOL Adhom nonsense.

I get it that you're religious.

No, you apparently don't get it. I am arguing within the confines.
That does not speak to any religiosity on my part.

But, beyond that, we have the ideal that something natural should be considered an abomination.

iLOL
Hmmm? You apply outside of the confines argumentation, but then use terminology from within the confines. Sorry that doesn't fly.
Within the confines, it is a burden placed upon the individual to overcome, if not and acted upon, the act is an abomination that deserves death.

That's where decent folks will get off the train.

Within the confines it is the decent folk who stay on that train and the indecent who get off.

I suggest you get off while you have the chance. You'll like yourself better -- believe me.

iLOL
Irrelevant nonsense.

---

Oh, so you do think Jesus’ denunciations of the Pharisees and Sadducess was “made up bs”? Sorry bud, your claim is pathetically easy to debunk.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/scribes-and-Pharisees.html

Your arrogance in denying God’s word is truly astounding.

Oh really? You don’t think Christians have the “proper excuses” for not following multi thousand year old, contradictory “laws”? Poor poor you.

Yes, your denial of God’s word is a pretty classic case of you not wanting to follow God’s law.

By spewing stupidity in defense of your own petty hatred, you are merely exposing yourself as the person God already knows you are—-and that isn’t going to end well for you.

Oh really? So you think it’s “legal” to kill homosexuals? Sorry bud, God doesn’t agree. As usual, you are perverting his word to justify your own hatreds.

Wrong as usual.
Again.

"The Law was given to Moses by G_d, it is apparently you who does not want to follow G_d's word."​

And what did you not understand about the following?

1. The so-called new testament has no validity to those of the Jewish faith, does it?
2. And frankly the excuses christian use for not following the law don't cut it.​

You haven't debunked anything. It is actually hilarious that you think you have.

 

[Tigerace117]

1. That is your belief.
2. Of course you can't because you choose not to debate within the confines of the beliefs this topic applies to. Outside of those confines is a different topic.


iLOL Adhom nonsense.


No, you apparently don't get it. I am arguing within the confines.
That does not speak to any religiosity on my part.


iLOL
Hmmm? You apply outside of the confines argumentation, but then use terminology from within the confines. Sorry that doesn't fly.
Within the confines, it is a burden placed upon the individual to overcome, if not and acted upon, the act is an abomination that deserves death.


Within the confines it is the decent folk who stay on that train and the indecent who get off.


iLOL
Irrelevant nonsense.

---

Wrong as usual.
Again.

"The Law was given to Moses by G_d, it is apparently you who does not want to follow G_d's word."​

And what did you not understand about the following?

1. The so-called new testament has no validity to those of the Jewish faith, does it?
2. And frankly the excuses christian use for not following the law don't cut it.​

You haven't debunked anything. It is actually hilarious that you think you have.

Yes, I get that you will cling to any excuse to justify your hatred and your arrogance. Unfortunately for you, God has made it rather clear he doesn't approve of such behavior.

Frankly, you thinking people following the word of God need "excuses" for not being as arrogant and bigoted as you are is truly laughable.

It's hilarious watching you strut around just like a million bigots before you, not even capable of understanding the power you invoke has already condemned you.

 

[Excon]

Yes, I get that you will cling to any excuse to justify your hatred and your arrogance.

I do not know why you lie like that, but I have not expressed any hatred.

Unfortunately for you, God has made it rather clear he doesn't approve of such behavior.

There you go being wrong again. G_d set out the requirement.

Frankly, you thinking people following the word of God need "excuses" for not being as arrogant and bigoted as you are is truly laughable.

It's hilarious watching you strut around just like a million bigots before you, not even capable of understanding the power you invoke has already condemned you.

Sadly, you show you lack understanding.
You are the one not following the Law handed down to Moses by G_d.

 

[Tigerace117]

I do not know why you lie like that, but I have not expressed any hatred.


There you go being wrong again. G_d set out the requirement.


Sadly, you show you lack understanding.
You are the one not following the Law handed down to Moses by G_d.

Lol what a joke. The raving and ranting you have done about people who aren't like you throughout this thread is a very clear display of hatred.

God has made it very clear people like you aren't going to do well in the afterlife. Maybe you should concentrate on yourself instead of spending your time whining about other people.

You mean I'm not following your prescribed pattern of arrogance and bigotry in the face of God's plan? Sorry bud, I'm going to have to pass on that crap.

 

[jmotivator]

[h=1]Pope Tells Gay Man: ‘God Made You Like This and Loves You Like This’[/h]


The more I hear about the Pope, the better I like him, and I'm not even Catholic.

That isn't actually a divergence from Catholic doctrine, just so you know.

We are all made sinners and God loves us as we are.

 

[jmotivator]

With that rule of thumb, God loves pedophiles and serial killers, too...:roll:

God loves all people. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This isn't Third Vatican Council material here, folks.

 

[Logicman]

I need reason.
Faith by definition is believeing in somethng for which you have no scientific proof. Fine if you can go for that, but to some of us, that's not rational.

Where's your scientific proof for these individuals from antiquity:

1. Hippocrates
2. Attila the Hun
3. Archimedes of Syracuse
4. Confucius
5. Hannibal

from another poster -
Remember that logic can still exist even when started from a false or opinion based premise.

Which is evidently the case with Logicman.

Yeah? Give me your best ONE example of a specific issue where you were right and I was wrong? And link to the post so you don't revise what was presented.

 

[ALTOY459]

The Pope is a phony and doesn't represent the true values of the Christian faith
"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

Homosexuality is clearly forbade in the bible, he is only doing this to pander to the masses and youth to seem more "progressive", advancing his agenda.
The hypocrisy is strong here, this would be like a priest saying its OK to worship other gods while being Christian :lamo :lamo

 

[Logicman]

Well in fairness if you read the Bible from cover to cover, God, particularly the God of the Old Testament, is at times utterly despicable by modern moral standards. At times he condones and commands slavery, child rape, genocide and just about every evil act imaginable. Which makes sense, as he is a creation of violent and tribal bronze age group of desert wanderers that would make today's Taliban look liberal and tolerant.

To quote Richard Dawkins:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Christian scholar Ravi Zacharias responds: “Now, he (Dawkins) just finished telling us God’s a fictional character! That’s half of the point. The other half of the point is what he thinks about humanity. He goes on to say that basically, he believes in the goodness of humanity without God watching over. Either I’m confused or he is. If God doesn’t exist and all these descriptions apply, then who did these things? Who wrote the Old Testament if God didn’t inspire the words? That would be his answer. And who ordered all these things? That would be humanity. Why are you (Dawkins) so positive about humanity and so down on God when it was humanity who manufactured the God that you deny?”

And who killed all those people throughout history – hundreds of millions of them - if God is fictional? It was humanity. And you – Dawkins – believe humanity is ‘good’! Atheists….

:lamo:

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Christian scholar Ravi Zacharias responds: “Now, he (Dawkins) just finished telling us God’s a fictional character! That’s half of the point. The other half of the point is what he thinks about humanity. He goes on to say that basically, he believes in the goodness of humanity without God watching over. Either I’m confused or he is. If God doesn’t exist and all these descriptions apply, then who did these things? Who wrote the Old Testament if God didn’t inspire the words? That would be his answer. And who ordered all these things? That would be humanity. Why are you (Dawkins) so positive about humanity and so down on God when it was humanity who manufactured the God that you deny?”

And who killed all those people throughout history – hundreds of millions of them - if God is fictional? It was humanity. And you – Dawkins – believe humanity is ‘good’! Atheists….

:lamo:

Yeah, you are confused. The Old Testament was written by some very tribal bronze age desert wanderers and all the genocide, enslavement, rape, murder, and other actions we would consider despicable today reflects that. We consider slavery immoral today. They didn't. We consider the rape of virgin girls as spoils of war immoral today, they didn't. We consider stoning someone to death for the crime of gathering sticks on the sabbath immoral today, they didn't. We consider treating women as property immoral today, they didn't. We consider genocide immoral today, they didn't. If many of the great Biblical figures of the Old Testament were alive today they would be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity. We would look at them like we look at the Nazis or the Taliban. Humanity is far more moral today than it was at the time of the Old Testament, its time you caught up.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Yeah, you are confused. The Old Testament was written by some very tribal bronze age desert wanderers and all the genocide, enslavement, rape, murder, and other actions we would consider despicable today reflects that. We consider slavery immoral today. They didn't. We consider the rape of virgin girls as spoils of war immoral today, they didn't. We consider stoning someone to death for the crime of gathering sticks on the sabbath immoral today, they didn't. We consider treating women as property immoral today, they didn't. We consider genocide immoral today, they didn't. If many of the great Biblical figures of the Old Testament were alive today they would be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity. We would look at them like we look at the Nazis or the Taliban. Humanity is far more moral today than it was at the time of the Old Testament, its time you caught up.

Excellent post.

 

[Daisy]

The Pope is a phony and doesn't represent the true values of the Christian faith
"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

Homosexuality is clearly forbade in the bible, he is only doing this to pander to the masses and youth to seem more "progressive", advancing his agenda.
The hypocrisy is strong here, this would be like a priest saying its OK to worship other gods while being Christian :lamo :lamo

Hey, don't think that's too far fetched...I've run upon a few so called 'Christians' who would never be convicted of being one, due to the lack of evidence posed against them...not in a million years...

 

[cpwill]

God loves all people. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This isn't Third Vatican Council material here, folks.

I'm wondering if the man has faithfully transmitted what the Pope said (but, it's not beyond plausibility). "God loves you being a sinner" isn't exactly "love the sinner hate the sin" material.

 

[jmotivator]

I'm wondering if the man has faithfully transmitted what the Pope said (but, it's not beyond plausibility). "God loves you being a sinner" isn't exactly "love the sinner hate the sin" material.

"God loves sinners" can be read by those who want to hear an affirmation as "God loves sin". It wouldn't be the first time this Pope has been misquoted by those seeking such affirmation.

But even if he is quoted correctly, I wouldn't expect that the Pope would attempt to translate that in to the Catholic church accepting gay weddings. To the Catholic church homosexuality is essentially just another form of fornication, but it is different than heterosexual fornication because the Church doesn't offer a path for homosexuality to be normalized in a relationship, and the Church's view is that sex should always have to potential for creating life, with the creation of life being the single greatest evidence of God's work in us.

That being said, if this Pope does want to normalize homosexual marriage then that would likely need a third Vatican Council since he couldn't make that change stick without claiming authority under Papal infallibility.

The Catholic Church has a very tightly knit ideology regarding sex and life and abortion that leaves little room for embracing homosexual relationships without severing the logical ties between those other tenets.

 

[Wan]

God loves all people. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

This doesn't work in real life. If someone murders your mother, I am pretty sure you will hate him.

 

[jmotivator]

This doesn't work in real life. If someone murders your mother, I am pretty sure you will hate him.

I think you are not looking at it with the proper perspective. The instruction to turn the other cheek isn't really up for debate in Christian doctrine. The Christian faith teaches that the true path is to find forgiveness for those who have done you wrong.

Saying that it "doesn't work that way in real life" is both false and simplistic. There are plenty of examples of people who manage to forgive even the most heinous crimes, be it through faith or some other path. The reality is that forgiveness is the one real path to your own peace. If you are consumed with anger you will never be happy, and few people find real lasting peace in revenge. I find that most people who claim to find peace in revenge were never really touched by the crime in the first place. If you read about a heinous murder, and then read about the murderer's execution it is easy to mistake schadenfreude for real peace. Those who were actually directly affected by such a murder don't fill the hole that was created with more death, they fill it with forgiveness.

It seems counter-intuitive, I know, but then it turns out that much of the effective modern therapy techniques for such loss and rage are mirrors of Judeo-Christian doctrine written thousands of years ago.

 

[American]

SIAP. What was Christ's example? To include everyone in religion? Explain Christ's flogging of the Jewish priests in the temple, then, in John 2:15. Or the fact that it was Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus, who allowed gentiles to be Christians and not Jesus who demanded every Christian follow Jewish traditions? If it were up to Jesus, every Christian would have to, for example, abstain from eating pork.

Only until his work was done. There was no new covenant until after his death.

 

[American]

The Bible says it Enoch and Elijah go there first.

2 Kings 2:11
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[Logicman]

The bible.... can be interpreted in millions of ways...."

And the spiritually-challenged are very good at doing just that. Those who actually do in-depth studies of Bible issues are far less inclined.

My favourite two words from the bible are "Judge not" and I am amazed how many bible-thumping zealots can't manage that.

Once again, you haven't done your homework.

“Judge not, and you will not be judged.” (Matthew 7:1)

"Jesus is not saying that we cannot make judgments about people’s actions, he is saying that we should not be hypocrites if we do. In Matthew 7:5 he says, “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brothers eye.”

The Bible - Is it Wrong to Make Judgments?

https://righterreport.com/2007/08/19/the-bible-is-it-wrong-to-judge/



Now if you would, please update your theology.

 

[Logicman]

Uretha Franklin: Which is evidently the case with Logicman.

Exactly, which is why it is not necessarily a misnomer in his case. He has logic. I've noted it. It simply comes from a set of false or opinion based premises.

Your best one (1) example of a false premise of mine?

 

[RAMOSS]

Only until his work was done. There was no new covenant until after his death.

There STILL isn't a new covenant. The law is not written on people's hearts yet, and we still have to rely on scripture.

 

[maquiscat]

Your best one (1) example of a false premise of mine?

Note that I also used opinion based premises. I apologise that I don't keep a running database of every post in every thread you've been in. And I have nothing for recent memory since this thread is the first that we've collided in a while.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[Logicman]

Note that I also used opinion based premises. I apologise that I don't keep a running database of every post in every thread you've been in. And I have nothing for recent memory since this thread is the first that we've collided in a while.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

I would think it has to do with the Bible. So that's ok, no problem.

 

[maquiscat]

I would think it has to do with the Bible. So that's ok, no problem.

If we're talking about the Bible, that will.be squarely opinion based, because of the different ways people interpret it.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[upsideguy]

This doesn't work in real life. If someone murders your mother, I am pretty sure you will hate him.

...and it would be a sin to do so. We are commanded to forgive those that sin against us just as God forgives our sin.

(Not saying that its understandable that we would have 'hate'.... that would be one of our life challenges to get past that hate and forgive the sinner, just as the Lord forgives our sin)