• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Police raid newspaper & home of 98 year old owner who then dies

Last edited:
The reason for the warrant was someone at the newspaper that got raided was impersonating an individual - the person with old DUI charge.
 
No, it isn't. That's implied by the fact that they are both mentioned. Freedom of speech applies to the spoken word. Freedom of the press applies to the written word. Although newspapers are protected by the freedom of the press, that protection is not intended for journalists exclusively.
Nobody said that it was.
Make up as much as you want, but you have been wrong regarding this issue in two threads here.
It’s hilarious.
 
No, it isn't. That's implied by the fact that they are both mentioned. Freedom of speech applies to the spoken word. Freedom of the press applies to the written word. Although newspapers are protected by the freedom of the press, that protection is not intended for journalists exclusively.

We will agree to disagree.

All of the items the police seized have since been returned.
 
If she had been BLACK
Those slimy bastards would have made her take the robe off
and handcuffed her behind her back and made her stand in one SPOT...
NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE
I agree with what you wrote, @HangLow, but I have mixed feelings about it since The woman in question, although white, did pay with her life.
I think that the truth is that had she she been black, she might have been shot as soon as the police entered her home if she dared to protest. Perhaps she would have been shot even if she had not protested. The police would have said that they had a warrant, after all. Maybe they would have accused her of being a threat by resisting.
 
I agree with what you wrote, @HangLow, but I have mixed feelings about it since The woman in question, although white, did pay with her life.
I think that the truth is that had she she been black, she might have been shot as soon as the police entered her home if she dared to protest. Perhaps she would have been shot even if she had not protested. The police would have said that they had a warrant, after all. Maybe they would have accused her of being a threat by resisting.
I believe that the line is supposed to be

"Your Honor, at the time I formed the opinion that the deceased was about to assault me with the metallic object which she had in her hands. The deceased was combative and approaching me aggressively while uttering threats and refusing to comply with my legitimate commands while I was legally enforcing what I have every reason to believe was a valid order from this court to search the premises that I was actually in. My actions were in total compliance with the law, departmental policy, the orders which I had received from a lawful superior, and my training. The deceased gave me no time for more mature reflection due to her confrontational approach to duly authorized authority acting in accordance with the law."​
 
If the police are free to now sieze journalists computers then everyone should be worried.
I assume they also want the power to demand passords to get access to everything on them as well.
When those journalists commit criminal acts using those computers, then those journalists can expect to have them seized as evidence in their up-coming criminal trial.
 
The problem here is they can use that fear to just decide to break into and search any media company.
What part of probably cause escaped your grasp? The police had a court-issued warrant. Warrants are not issued on a whim, there must be probable cause that a crime has been, will be, or is in the process of being committed.

I don't like Fox news but I don't think they should be raided and have their computers taken on a hunch that they may possibly have illegal photos of children on them.
People make false accusations all the time against large media companies.
If it can be demonstrated before a court of law that there is probable cause that illegal photos of children may be on the computers at some Fox News location, then a warrant should be issued and the computers in questioned seized.

The media is not above the law.
 
What part of probably cause escaped your grasp? The police had a court-issued warrant. Warrants are not issued on a whim, there must be probable cause that a crime has been, will be, or is in the process of being committed.


If it can be demonstrated before a court of law that there is probable cause that illegal photos of children may be on the computers at some Fox News location, then a warrant should be issued and the computers in questioned seized.

The media is not above the law.

I never tried to claim the media is above the law.
This raid was a clear violation of the law and they didn't just raid the office of the paper they raided the home of a 90+ year old lady.

The warrant is pretty clearly a revenge mission by the judge who issued it and the police should have realised that and not just followed orders.
Is thinking now outside the job description for the police?
 
The media is not above the law.
Law enforcement is not above the law, either. Corrupt cops and judges can go to prison, too. That appears to be the more applicable principle here
 
When those journalists commit criminal acts using those computers, then those journalists can expect to have them seized as evidence in their up-coming criminal trial.

Why has the warrant been withdrawn and all the stuff returned if the case against the paper is so solid?

This was a bad decision all round.
 
Law enforcement is not above the law, either. Corrupts cops and judges can go to prison, too. That appears to be the more applicable principle here

Qualified immunity needs to be stopped.
UK police don't have it and we still have plenty of people who want to become police officers.
Accountability of the police is crucial to make sure everyone knows the police aren't above the laws they claim to uphold.
 
This is an indication of what will happen if Trump wins. I guess Kansas is run by Trumpies?

This is an attack on democracy because it can be expected to have an intimidating effect on the newspaper's future reporting but also make citizens afraid to speak to the newspaper as the police can easily go in and obtain their identity without either a certificate of probable cause or a service of the application. Usually this only happens in authoritarian states.
 
Why has the warrant been withdrawn and all the stuff returned if the case against the paper is so solid?
The legal term is "mitigation of damages" (sometimes referred to in the legal biz as "The client finally had an 'Oh SHIT!' moment.)
This was a bad decision all round.
Well, someone obviously thought that no one would notice the police raiding a newspaper office or the home of a 98 year old woman. I mean, who would have thought that a newspaper publisher would know anyone in the newspaper biz who would have even the slightest interest in such a "non-story" - right?
 
Qualified immunity needs to be stopped.
UK police don't have it and we still have plenty of people who want to become police officers.
Accountability of the police is crucial to make sure everyone knows the police aren't above the laws they claim to uphold.
Actually UK police officers DO have "qualified immunity" PROVIDED that they are operating "within the scope of their employment".

However the UK justice system, unlike the US justice system, has this silly notion that "within the scope of their employment" does NOT extend to gunning down someone whom you stopped because you said that their taillight wasn't working (even if there is no actual evidence that the taillight was not working but rather evidence that it was) and they decided to run away from you.
 
Actually UK police officers DO have "qualified immunity" PROVIDED that they are operating "within the scope of their employment".

However the UK justice system, unlike the US justice system, has this silly notion that "within the scope of their employment" does NOT extend to gunning down someone whom you stopped because you said that their taillight wasn't working (even if there is no actual evidence that the taillight was not working but rather evidence that it was) and they decided to run away from you.
Your words are ringing bells, @TU Curmudgeon . I have recently heard "within the scope of his employment" spoken about one of the conditions that must be present in order for someone to get a trial moved out of a State court (for instance one in Georgia) to a federal court. I believe the other one is that he must be a federal officer. An environmental lawyer at The Department of Justice whose official job description does not include advising the president to invoke The Insurrection Act or stealing votes in Georgia will have to prove in court that those tasks were "within the scope of his employment" in order to move a trial away from District Attorney Willis.
 
This is an indication of what will happen if Trump wins. I guess Kansas is run by Trumpies?

This is an attack on democracy because it can be expected to have an intimidating effect on the newspaper's future reporting but also make citizens afraid to speak to the newspaper as the police can easily go in and obtain their identity without either a certificate of probable cause or a service of the application. Usually this only happens in authoritarian states.
@Juks, generally Kansas is a "Trumpie" (i.e. a Red) State, but even Kansas can only be pushed so far by the current totalitarian right wing. Kansas and Ohio have proven that The Supreme Court went too far in taking away women's rights under the pressure of the dark money that bought the current Supreme Court in the United States.

 
If you commit a crime, it is no defense that you're a publisher.

Or can I host child porn now, providing I have some serious articles on the same server? It's not like I want to host child porn, but it would help my numbers.
What are you talking about? The issues raised in this thread have nothing to do with distributing pornography so your analogy is ludicrous.

Next you assume a crime was committed. What crime? Go on explain the crime.

Let's cut to the chase shall we? Pro Trump maggaites on this board are the first to claim the first amendment is unlimited when it comes to Donald Trump and justifies his "asking" others to commit crimes or use words to deliberately make false allegations about election tampering, call up election offices to try change election counts, use words to incite violence, use words to insult, threaten and try intimidate the Judges, prosecutors and witnesses of his on-going litigation. If its in regards to Trump behaviour its unlimited first amendment rights.

However if it deals with the press who are perceived by pro Trump maga politicians (such as the politician in this story) its just fine to trample on their first amendment right to appear at a public rally, then use the police to retaliate after against the press who were kicked out.

Double standard? Lol.
 
I never tried to claim the media is above the law.
Yes you did, when you excused their criminal acts. When so-called journalists illegally use their credentials to obtain personal information and then dox the individual, like the Marion County Record did, they need to go to prison. But then we have people like you who want criminals to roam the streets inflicting harm just because they are journalists. Could you be any more pathetic? :rolleyes:
 
Yes you did, when you excused their criminal acts. When so-called journalists illegally use their credentials to obtain personal information and then dox the individual, like the Marion County Record did, they need to go to prison. But then we have people like you who want criminals to roam the streets inflicting harm just because they are journalists. Could you be any more pathetic?

Please show where I said doing was ok?

The warrant was withdrawn so it was obviously a huge mistake.
 
Your words are ringing bells, @TU Curmudgeon . I have recently heard "within the scope of his employment" spoken about one of the conditions that must be present in order for someone to get a trial moved out of a State court (for instance one in Georgia) to a federal court. I believe the other one is that he must be a federal officer. An environmental lawyer at The Department of Justice whose official job description does not include advising the president to invoke The Insurrection Act or stealing votes in Georgia will have to prove in court that those tasks were "within the scope of his employment" in order to move a trial away from District Attorney Willis.
Not only that, but they will have to prove that their actions were "within the legitimate scope of their employment" and not simply "Ich habe nur Befehle befolgt." ("I did it because I was an employee and my boss told me to do it.").
 
Nobody said that it was.
Make up as much as you want, but you have been wrong regarding this issue in two threads here.
If you agree freedom of the press isn't meant to refer specifically to journalists, I'm not sure how you can say that "nobody is saying it is," while also saying that I've been wrong about this in two threads.
 
Back
Top Bottom