Pitcher sues Astros

[ecofarm]

I was referring to 2019.

Look at 2017, the year they won.

 

[Jack Hays]

Look at 2017, the year they won.

OK. Got it.

 

[ecofarm]

OK. Got it.

I don't mean that as condescending. I don't know anything about baseball. I'm just looking into this via Fox and ESPN opinions and info.

The video I posted above has some of what I've heard about that. The Yankees especially. Houston should not have made it to the WS.

 

[Jack Hays]

I don't mean that as condescending. I don't know anything about baseball. I'm just looking into this via Fox and ESPN opinions and info.

The video I posted above has some of what I've heard about that. The Yankees especially.

Thanks. I live in Nats country so we get a lot of information about them. Seems they took elaborate precautions in the 2019 WS because they were suspicious of the Astros.

 

[ecofarm]

Thanks. I live in Nats country so we get a lot of information about them. Seems they took elaborate precautions in the 2019 WS because they were suspicious of the Astros.

I have a buddy that went to Nat games in 2019. Now he's a baseball fan.

But that video I posted. If you haven't seen it, check it out. The Yanks clobbered them at home and lost the series away, except for the last game from what I gathered.

 

[Jack Hays]

I have a buddy that went to Nat games in 2019. Now he's a baseball fan.

But that video I posted. If you haven't seen it, check it out. The Yanks clobbered them at home and lost the series away, except for the last game from what I gathered.

Quite possibly victims of cheating.

 

[ecofarm]

Quite possibly victims of cheating.

Yanks lost by one run the first two games in Houston and then clobbered them in Yank stadium. Houston couldn't hit in NY. 4-0

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Look at 2017, the year they won.

Yanks scored 3 runs in the 4 games in Houston in 2017. They couldn't hit the Astros pitching. Had nothing to do with the Astros hitters stealing signs.

 

[ecofarm]

Yanks scored 3 runs in the 4 games in Houston in 2017. They couldn't hit the Astros pitching. Had nothing to do with the Astros hitters stealing signs.

Why did one run wins (2-1, ?) turn into 4-0 in NY? Let's talk about Houston's hitting.

"They couldn't hit" is pretty rich from a team cheating for their hits. Without free hits, Yanks' one run wins game one. Yanks scored in game two, right? So without free hits there, Yanks win game two.

Don't worry about the Yanks only getting one or two. Worry about Houston getting 0, as it should have.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Why did one run wins (2-1, ?) turn into 4-0 in NY? Let's talk about Houston's hitting.

Scoring 3 runs in 4 games? The odds are you'regoing to lose..

 

[ecofarm]

Scoring 3 runs in 4 games? The odds are you'regoing to lose..

When Houston played in NY, they got 0. See my edits above, please.

NY won game three 4-0. Game one was 2-1. I'll presume they scored one game two, making that 6 runs in 3 games.

I'm going off memory from videos. Perhaps we should look at the series numbers.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

When Houston played in NY, they got 0. See my edits above, please.

NY won game three 4-0. Game one was 2-1. I'll presume they scored one game two, making that 6 runs in 3 games.

I'm going off memory from videos. Perhaps we should look at the series numbers.

Yankees scored less than 1 run per game in Houston.. Can't win with that stat..

Anyway I have no idea if without the sign stealing the Astros would have lost 1-0 in those games they won 2-1... No one knows. Another funny thing with this is the MLB's 'investigation' seems to be only from Day 1 of the 2017 season, to the last game of the 2017 WS... Nothing else. Houston was so successful stealing signs in 2017 that they, and others didn't do anything in 2018? Or 2019? Is that what the MLB wants us to believe?

I don't.

 

[ecofarm]

Yankees scored less than 1 run per game in Houston.. Can't win with that stat..

Anyway I have no idea if without the sign stealing the Astros would have lost 1-0 in those games they won 2-1... No one knows. Another funny thing with this is the MLB's 'investigation' seems to be only from Day 1 of the 2017 season, to the last game of the 2017 WS... Nothing else. Houston was so successful stealing signs in 2017 that they, and others didn't do anything in 2018? Or 2019? Is that what the MLB wants us to believe?

I don't.

Jack says adjustments were made in 2019 by the Nats. Presumably other teams had caught on by that time as well.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Jack says adjustments were made in 2019 by the Nats. Presumably other teams had caught on by that time as well.

OK, that kind of makes my point.. Everyone knew, but nothing was done? Why? Also nothing was said until an Ex-ASTRO( no one from other teams) blabbed about it to the press? All these other people who are now outraged and screaming about the 'integrity' of the game said nothing?

Why?

 

[ecofarm]

OK, that kind of makes my point.. Everyone knew, but nothing was done? Why? Also nothing was said until an Ex-ASTRO( no one from other teams) blabbed about it to the press? All these other people who are now outraged and screaming about the 'integrity' of the game said nothing?

Why?

Presumably they didn't have proof.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Presumably they didn't have proof.

I don't believe that for a second. It teams are/were taking countermeasures, that means they, and others had proof. Some yahoo on Twitter studies videos and sees that the Astros were banging on drums/garbage cans to tip off their hitters.. But billion $ MLB teams didn't know? They couldn't prove it? That's not possible.

Supposedly during the 2017 WS the NYC MLB office got dozens of reports of sign stealing. So L.A. loses, but says nothing? Now 2 years later they are outraged and want the Title that was stolen from them? Why didn't they scream and yell after the 2017 series?

Nats GM is outraged about the 'damage' this has done to the game? Why didn't he blow the whistle after the 2019 series showing and telling of all the countermeasures the Nats had to use to keep the Astros from stealing their signs.

EVERYONE wants an edge. Been that way forever. That's all this is. Astros wanted an edge, they cheated, they got caught and got punished, as they should have been. But lets not pretend they were the only ones and this only happened in 2017..

 

[ecofarm]

I don't believe that for a second. It teams are/were taking countermeasures, that means they, and others had proof. Some yahoo on Twitter studies videos and sees that the Astros were banging on drums/garbage cans to tip off their hitters.. But billion $ MLB teams didn't know? They couldn't prove it? That's not possible.

Supposedly during the 2017 WS the NYC MLB office got dozens of reports of sign stealing. So L.A. loses, but says nothing? Now 2 years later they are outraged and want the Title that was stolen from them? Why didn't they scream and yell after the 2017 series?

Nats GM is outraged about the 'damage' this has done to the game? Why didn't he blow the whistle after the 2019 series showing and telling of all the countermeasures the Nats had to use to keep the Astros from stealing their signs.

EVERYONE wants an edge. Been that way forever. That's all this is. Astros wanted an edge, they cheated, they got caught and got punished, as they should have been. But lets not pretend they were the only ones and this only happened in 2017..

Others had a camera in center field at their home stadium to read signs?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Others had a camera in center field at their home stadium to read signs?

1951 Giants did it.

So yeah, others have done it.

And I'll bet you $5 it'll will still be going on in the future.. Hell the IDIOTS in MLB PUT replay monitors in the clubhouses and dugouts that showed pictures from center-field.

In 2017 Red Sox were fined for using an Apple watch to steal signs. In 2016 Yanks were fined for 'improperly' using a dugout phone. There's all sorts of technology out there. It was right after these fines that Manfred issued his stern warning about using technology to steal signs.

The problem with the Astros was the extent the went to do it and the fact that they completely ignored Manfred's warning.

I would imagine when the penalties are announced for the 2018 Red Sox that those penalties will also, rightfully so, be harsh.

I'm NOT against the penalties, I am a shocked and taken aback by extent of 'wanting to crucify' the Astros from people who are acting like this stuff is new and only was done by the Astros.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

It's starting to leak out now that the Astros were cheating in 2018 and 2019, and everyone knew it. Maybe every team in the Astros division turned them in, the A's turned them in a few times.. But the MLB did NOTHING.

Anyway speaking of the A's and finally someone adding some humor to this:

Brett Anderson offers hilarious reason why A's can't cheat like Astros..

snip...

“I know the A’s weren’t cheating,” Anderson told The Athletic. “Because, one, I don’t know if they could afford it. And to relay from f---ing 300 yards away in the video room? What were we going to do, get some vendor to throw some popcorn up in the air, or something? It’s too f---ing far to relay something.

“The lights go out, it’s a curveball,” Anderson said. “If there’s a sewage backup, it’s a fastball.”

Honestly ... fair point.

cont...

Brett Anderson offers hilarious reason why A's can't cheat like Astros | NBCS Bay Area

 

[Sampson Simpson]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. It doesn't seem to be a game that connects with the younger generations as much as other sports, no one wants to sit around for 3-4 hours anymore. Add that to the fact Baseball has very little "star power" anymore with only 40 percent of Americans even knowing who Mike trout is. For a comparison 91 percent knew who LeBron was, 88 percent Tom Brady and 75 percent knew who Messi was.

it's so boring. Games take so long, games are pretty much every single day for many months. Too many games. They can take way too long, too much down time, ridiculously overpaid players and it costs a small fortune to go to most stadiums

 

[Jack Hays]

it's so boring. Games take so long, games are pretty much every single day for many months. Too many games. They can take way too long, too much down time, ridiculously overpaid players and it costs a small fortune to go to most stadiums

It's a game that requires intelligent fans.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Centerfield camera, data relayed to clubhouse, then relayed to dugout, where batter was signaled.

That, plus it got even more technical with a buzzer to signal the pitch instead of the banging

Using electronics is against the rules. I'm surprised there would be anybody questioning the illegality of it. ANd the sure scumbaggery and tainting of the sport as well

 

[TobyOne]

Vacate their title. Then deal with the rest*


* I don't believe there is "the rest"

1951 Giants did it.

So yeah, others have done it.

And I'll bet you $5 it'll will still be going on in the future.. Hell the IDIOTS in MLB PUT replay monitors in the clubhouses and dugouts that showed pictures from center-field.

In 2017 Red Sox were fined for using an Apple watch to steal signs. In 2016 Yanks were fined for 'improperly' using a dugout phone. There's all sorts of technology out there. It was right after these fines that Manfred issued his stern warning about using technology to steal signs.

The problem with the Astros was the extent the went to do it and the fact that they completely ignored Manfred's warning.

I would imagine when the penalties are announced for the 2018 Red Sox that those penalties will also, rightfully so, be harsh.

I'm NOT against the penalties, I am a shocked and taken aback by extent of 'wanting to crucify' the Astros from people who are acting like this stuff is new and only was done by the Astros.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Everyone knew.. It was much more than just 'suspicions', AND it was going on in 2018 and 2019.. The MLB did nothing. They deserve just as much blame as the Astros.

Catcher Jonathan Lucroy says he was changing signs every pitch vs. Astros..

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- As a catcher who spent parts of four seasons playing in the American League West between 2016 and 2019, Jonathan Lucroy found himself in a unique position to observe the sign-stealing tactics of the Houston Astros while needing to plan against the scheme.

Lucroy, who is now with the Boston Red Sox, played for the Oakland Athletics, Texas Rangers and Los Angeles Angels in the AL West during that span. And, as a division rival, he saw up close the effectiveness of Houston's actions.

"I knew about that two years ago, that it was going on," Lucroy said Thursday. "I know it just recently came out. Everyone in baseball [knew], especially in that division that played against them. But we were all aware of the Astros doing those things and it was up to us to outsmart them, I guess you could say.

"It's kind of hard when you have a computer program that breaks your signs. We actively changed signs. Every single pitch, we were changing signs. You had to because they would relay them to second, stealing them from first, too -- from between your legs. They had a very intricate system going on. We were well aware of it, and it was a challenge. It was a mental challenge to really overcome that. It's easier said than done. But it's a shame, and I'm glad it came out and it came to light."

Lucroy said that Mike Fiers informed him of Houston's tactics once they became teammates in Oakland in 2018. The revelation led Lucroy, who signed a minor league deal with Boston earlier this week, to create more and more intricate sign-calling patterns to preemptively fight any tactics used by the Astros. Working with different pitchers called for different tactics as well.

Lucroy added that he never heard the banging of a trash can, but he would not have been listening for it in the first place.

"[Pitchers] don't want to sit there and try to think about decoding your signs and thinking about your indicators and all the different things that you're doing," said Lucroy, a 10-year major league veteran. "They want to sit there and just worry about executing. Some guys can handle it and some guys can't. It was very difficult to do.

"The guys were calling time and stepping out of the box as you take time to put your sign sequence down, and it was making games long and leaving guys out there. Their system, not only did it work with them having the signs and being able to see them, but it made our guys sit out there longer. You had to put down a more complex set of signs and everything. I'm glad it's been taken care of. It was out of hand and it affected the games in a lot of different ways."

According to Lucroy, the Athletics informed Major League Baseball about their experience with the Astros, but no investigation was started until Fiers went on the record with The Athletic in November.

Athletics general manager David Forst confirmed to The Mercury News last week that Oakland complained to the league well before MLB's investigation commenced.

Word began spreading quickly about the Astros, and Lucroy said he would text others around the league about what he had learned.

"It was crazy, some of the pitches they would take," Lucroy said. "It was like, 'Man, these guys are some of the best hitters I've ever seen.' It all made sense when I found out how they were doing it. Then it was like, 'What are we going to do?' I was with Oakland, and we had let MLB know, and they just called and said something. They didn't go through the whole investigation. It wasn't until Fiers came out publicly that they went and looked at it really hard."

cont..

Catcher Jonathan Lucroy says he was changing signs every pitch vs. Astros

 

[TobyOne]

So the league knew and didn't do a damn thing about it. Shame. They're part of the problem. It would be like the UCI knowing that Lance Armstrong was cheating and did nothing.

Everyone knew.. It was much more than just 'suspicions', AND it was going on in 2018 and 2019.. The MLB did nothing. They deserve just as much blame as the Astros.

Catcher Jonathan Lucroy says he was changing signs every pitch vs. Astros..

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- As a catcher who spent parts of four seasons playing in the American League West between 2016 and 2019, Jonathan Lucroy found himself in a unique position to observe the sign-stealing tactics of the Houston Astros while needing to plan against the scheme.

Lucroy, who is now with the Boston Red Sox, played for the Oakland Athletics, Texas Rangers and Los Angeles Angels in the AL West during that span. And, as a division rival, he saw up close the effectiveness of Houston's actions.

"I knew about that two years ago, that it was going on," Lucroy said Thursday. "I know it just recently came out. Everyone in baseball [knew], especially in that division that played against them. But we were all aware of the Astros doing those things and it was up to us to outsmart them, I guess you could say.

"It's kind of hard when you have a computer program that breaks your signs. We actively changed signs. Every single pitch, we were changing signs. You had to because they would relay them to second, stealing them from first, too -- from between your legs. They had a very intricate system going on. We were well aware of it, and it was a challenge. It was a mental challenge to really overcome that. It's easier said than done. But it's a shame, and I'm glad it came out and it came to light."

Lucroy said that Mike Fiers informed him of Houston's tactics once they became teammates in Oakland in 2018. The revelation led Lucroy, who signed a minor league deal with Boston earlier this week, to create more and more intricate sign-calling patterns to preemptively fight any tactics used by the Astros. Working with different pitchers called for different tactics as well.

Lucroy added that he never heard the banging of a trash can, but he would not have been listening for it in the first place.

"[Pitchers] don't want to sit there and try to think about decoding your signs and thinking about your indicators and all the different things that you're doing," said Lucroy, a 10-year major league veteran. "They want to sit there and just worry about executing. Some guys can handle it and some guys can't. It was very difficult to do.

"The guys were calling time and stepping out of the box as you take time to put your sign sequence down, and it was making games long and leaving guys out there. Their system, not only did it work with them having the signs and being able to see them, but it made our guys sit out there longer. You had to put down a more complex set of signs and everything. I'm glad it's been taken care of. It was out of hand and it affected the games in a lot of different ways."

According to Lucroy, the Athletics informed Major League Baseball about their experience with the Astros, but no investigation was started until Fiers went on the record with The Athletic in November.

Athletics general manager David Forst confirmed to The Mercury News last week that Oakland complained to the league well before MLB's investigation commenced.

Word began spreading quickly about the Astros, and Lucroy said he would text others around the league about what he had learned.

"It was crazy, some of the pitches they would take," Lucroy said. "It was like, 'Man, these guys are some of the best hitters I've ever seen.' It all made sense when I found out how they were doing it. Then it was like, 'What are we going to do?' I was with Oakland, and we had let MLB know, and they just called and said something. They didn't go through the whole investigation. It wasn't until Fiers came out publicly that they went and looked at it really hard."

cont..

Catcher Jonathan Lucroy says he was changing signs every pitch vs. Astros