People Are Not Happy That Louis C.K. Did Stand-Up Again

[ecofarm]

What does that mean? THat those women (in this case) shouldnt be held responsible for choosing to use him to gain his influence? They went to him for that purpose.

He did such things at the office, to my understanding.

If this was his pre bedroom romance, who cares. It wasn't. It was him using power to abuse people.

 

[Lursa]

At least two of the cases did happen at work.



Repetition is not an argument.



Spare us your attempts to blame the victims. What he did was unethical, and in some cases violated the law. I see no sign that he showed any genuine contrition, and as a result I have no consequences calling him out on it.

Never said it was ethical. Said I didnt see where it crossed into criminal activity. Now it seems like perhaps it was.

As for your 'judgement' of his contrition, that's meaningless except to you. Obviously the market is deciding differently. Or dont care.

 

[Lursa]

He did such things at the office, to my understanding.

If this was his pre bedroom romance, who cares. It wasn't. It was him using power to abuse people.

In the instances I'm describing, it was people willing to let him do so for their own ends.

 

[ecofarm]

In the instances I'm describing, it was people willing to let him do so for their own ends.

Handing out promotions for sexual favors and silence is generally frowned upon. And we don't blame the bribers.

 

[Lursa]

Handing out promotions for sexual favors and silence is generally frowned upon. And we don't blame the bribers.

Who ever said differently?

 

[ecofarm]

Who ever said differently?

His work related endeavors were harassment, perhaps criminal and certainly lecherous.

 

[Lursa]

His work related endeavors were harassment, perhaps criminal and certainly lecherous.

I didnt write anything different.

 

[Visbek]

So you are excusing people from being responsible for themselves? I'm not. The entertainment industry is rife with such garbage and anyone of adult age knows it, certainly someone looking to get into that industry.

Pretty much everyone in the business thinks CK stepped way, way over the line. Even people who think it's OK for him to get back to work seem to understand that.

And I have to say, I am not buying this argument. "That's how it works" is not a justification for unethical behavior. The industry needs to clean itself up, not perpetuate an environment where people (especially women) are treated like dirt.

Those people, women in this case, made a choice. All they wanted were recommendations from him, to get them interviews, auditions, spots in clubs. There are other ways to do that...they made their choices.

Again, blaming the victim is not acceptable. It also happens to be inaccurate.

In at least two cases, he harassed co-workers who weren't trying to get something from him. In other cases, the women weren't asking him for anything. Abby Schachner invited CK to one of her shows; Goodman and Wolov were hanging out with CK after a comedy festival; Corry was working production on a show, when CK approached her; another PA was approached by CK.

By the way, if someone approached me and asked if I could get them a booking at a comedy club, is the appropriate response for me to drop trou and jack off in front of them? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "no."

 

[Lursa]

Pretty much everyone in the business thinks CK stepped way, way over the line. Even people who think it's OK for him to get back to work seem to understand that.

And I have to say, I am not buying this argument. "That's how it works" is not a justification for unethical behavior. The industry needs to clean itself up, not perpetuate an environment where people (especially women) are treated like dirt.

LOLOLOL

"Everybody said." That's not an argument, nor does it matter. Again, I said only that the market was deciding. Differently from you and "everybody' I guess.

And I'm still no concerned about your feelings about him as a part of any argument.

 

[Lursa]

Again, blaming the victim is not acceptable. It also happens to be inaccurate.

In at least two cases, he harassed co-workers who weren't trying to get something from him. In other cases, the women weren't asking him for anything. Abby Schachner invited CK to one of her shows; Goodman and Wolov were hanging out with CK after a comedy festival; Corry was working production on a show, when CK approached her; another PA was approached by CK.

By the way, if someone approached me and asked if I could get them a booking at a comedy club, is the appropriate response for me to drop trou and jack off in front of them? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "no."

"Victim" is questionable in cases where someone is knowingly using someone else. Some of the instances sound like they certainly fit that description. (I never claimed all. I never found his actions justifiable at all.)

Your examples are getting more extreme, indicating you are frustrated at not being able to make the argument you wish to. That's because it's not as black and white as you would like it to be.

Too bad.

 

[Gaius46]

He did such things at the office, to my understanding.

If this was his pre bedroom romance, who cares. It wasn't. It was him using power to abuse people.

Actually it wasn’t a power thing at all from what I’ve gathered. He was an employee/contractor of Chris Rock as was the woman in question. It doesn’t appear that the woman worked for him but for purposes of the EEOC he doesn’t have to. Peers can sexually harass each other. That puts both him and Chris Rock’s production company potentially civilly liable. It is not criminal.

In the other case he was apparently a guest star which may be a bit murkier.

 

[Visbek]

As for your 'judgement' of his contrition, that's meaningless except to you. Obviously the market is deciding differently. Or dont care.

1) "The Market" includes people like me, and it doesn't look like his comeback is going over all that well. E.g. he is getting raked over the coals for just doing unannounced 20-minute sets at comedy clubs.

2) If my opinion doesn't count, then logically yours doesn't count either. So, do you plan to stop expressing your opinion on the matter?

 

[ecofarm]

Actually it wasn’t a power thing at all from what I’ve gathered. He was an employee/contractor of Chris Rock as was the woman in question. It doesn’t appear that the woman worked for him but for purposes of the EEOC he doesn’t have to. Peers can sexually harass each other. That puts both him and Chris Rock’s production company potentially civilly liable. It is not criminal.

In the other case he was apparently a guest star which may be a bit murkier.

Co workers, assistants, others below him whom he could help. It wasn't a private quirk, it was professional sexual abuse of power.

 

[Lursa]

1) "The Market" includes people like me, and it doesn't look like his comeback is going over all that well. E.g. he is getting raked over the coals for just doing unannounced 20-minute sets at comedy clubs.

2) If my opinion doesn't count, then logically yours doesn't count either. So, do you plan to stop expressing your opinion on the matter?

We'll have to see what the market decides however the point of the article seemed to be that it did bode well for his future.

And I said your opinion didnt matter to the substance of the argument...which it does not. I have not used my opinion on his behavior as argument.

 

[Visbek]

"Victim" is questionable in cases where someone is knowingly using someone else.

No, it isn't. It is not appropriate to sexually harass someone because they ask you a favor, or want something from you. In the actual world, you don't get to sexually harass someone because they are trying to network with you.

Your examples are getting more extreme, indicating you are frustrated at not being able to make the argument you wish to. That's because it's not as black and white as you would like it to be.

My answers are "too extreme?" What the what? Are you not paying attention?

Goodman and Wolov were hanging out with CK after the Aspen Comedy Festival. They weren't asking him for a job, they weren't asking him to get them shows, they weren't asking him for work. They all went to his hotel room, and he asked them if he could masturbate in front of them. They didn't think he was serious. He then took off all of his clothes, masturbated, and ejaculated on his stomach, after which they fled the hotel room. By the way, CK does not deny their version of events.

When Goodman and Wolov mentioned the incident to a club owner, they felt a backlash within 24 hours. CK's manager basically warned them to shut up. Even though they had barely discussed it, it had an impact on their careers, as CK's manager was already an influential player in entertainment.

You are claiming that they "wanted something from him," therefore his behavior (and his manager's) is justified. That's just bull****.

 

[Gaius46]

Co workers, assistants, others below him whom he could help. It wasn't a private quirk, it was professional sexual abuse of power.

That’s not my understanding. He was a writer on Chris Rock’s show and nothing I’ve seen suggests the woman worked for him. But again that doesn’t matter at the end of the day because sexual harassment can happen between peers.

 

[Lursa]

No, it isn't. It is not appropriate to sexually harass someone because they ask you a favor, or want something from you. In the actual world, you don't get to sexually harass someone because they are trying to network with you.
.

Never, ever wrote that it was, nor that I condoned such.

 

[Lursa]

Goodman and Wolov were hanging out with CK after the Aspen Comedy Festival. They weren't asking him for a job, they weren't asking him to get them shows, they weren't asking him for work. They all went to his hotel room, and he asked them if he could masturbate in front of them. They didn't think he was serious. He then took off all of his clothes, masturbated, and ejaculated on his stomach, after which they fled the hotel room. By the way, CK does not deny their version of events.

While that is offensive (to me) and inappropriate, it's not a crime. They made a choice, it sounds like they even egged him on, as a challenge, since they didnt believe he'd do it. That's just speculation tho. OTOH, they could have left ***when he ASKED THEM** if he could do it.

And no one said he denied it. That's one of the points made.

 

[ecofarm]

While that is offensive (to me) and inappropriate, it's not a crime. They made a choice, it sounds like they even egged him on, as a challenge, since they didnt believe he'd do it. That's just speculation tho. OTOH, they could have left ***when he ASKED THEM** if he could do it.

And no one said he denied it. That's one of the points made.

Maybe if that was the only time he apparently lost his mind.

 

[sangha]

What does that mean? THat those women (in this case) shouldnt be held responsible for choosing to use him to gain his influence? They went to him for that purpose.

Where does this idea that these woman were trying to use him come from?

 

[Mason66]

There were some women who certainly implied he was pretty awful.

They should not agree to something then later say he is awful for doing what they agreed to.

 

[Mason66]

sigh

As a reminder: You don't actually have to be someone's superior in order to sexually harass someone. Anyway....

At least one woman refused his request (Rebecca Corry) during a pilot. When she complained about it to the producers, they basically did nothing.

Two others (Goodman and Wolov) didn't think he was serious. (Would you?)

In another case, it was during a phone call with a woman. One minute, they're talking work; the next, he's describing his sexual fantasies, and masturbating. He didn't ask permission.

One of the allegations was when he was a writer for the Chris Rock Show; she felt like she couldn't refuse because of the power dynamics.

In the time frame discussed, he wrote for Cedric the Entertainer, Conan O'Brien, Letterman, the Dana Carvey Show, and the Chris Rock Show (which got him 3 Emmy nominations); did an HBO special; directed two feature films, and numerous shorts for Showtime; hosted a PBS show; wrote at least one screenplay. His manager already had significant sway in the industry, and allegedly warned Goodman and Wolov not to talk about what happened.

He definitely got bigger after 2006. That doesn't change the fact that during that time, he had enough pull to make women feel uncomfortable saying no and/or publicly discussing the events.

This Rebecca Corry, did he masturbate in front of her even though she said no?

 

[Buzz62]

Imagine that the CEO of your company calls you into his office. He shuts the door, takes off all of his clothes, and masturbates in front of you. You're pretty sure that you will be fired if you try to leave the room. He ejaculates on his naked stomach, and then says you can leave.

I seriously doubt the CEO of the company that employs me, is gonna do such a thing. Trust me...
Should I see something like that, in a formal office setting, I'd be sorely tempted to report the incident.
But that would depend on a number of circumstances. You can't even compare the life of a corporate CEO to the life of a true celebrity. This is really a false equivalent.

First of all, that's not an "adult game." Pictionary is an adult game, and if you get naked and masturbate during Pictionary? Game over.

Nooo...its not "Game over".
I'm sorry if you've never experienced the adult frenzy of a back-stage scene, but hey...not everyone can be so luck I suppose...eh?

Second: Yes, it's sexual harassment. He was in a position of power, and anyone who complained was risking their career. Even if you are 100% justified, complaining or discussing it publicly could backfire on you -- you could get passed up for promotions, demoted, salary cut, driven out or fired, and the CEO could trash your reputation. That's how this stuff works.

Oh such kaka.
Nobody risked their career by having their MeToo moment.
It sounds to me like you're very naïve, on many fronts, and are just making silly accusations and making crap up now.

CK wasn't just a stand-up comic who could pull 50 people to a club on a Friday night. He's a director, writer and producer on lots of projects, including his own TV show. He's filled Madison Square Garden, he's won Emmys. He's newsworthy.

So famous people are not allowed their private lives?

You really aren't helping with your attempts to minimize this. It is not acceptable to expose yourself and masturbate in a work environment. Even in comedy, which is not for shrinking violets, that's not acceptable behavior.

Plus, he didn't use physical force, but these women's careers depended on CK's good graces. That's how sexual harassment works.[/quotes]
Their careers depended on him???
I don't want to 'help' you here. I want to show how shallow and really asinine this situation is.

And again... What the NYT reported was true. They didn't "go after him" because he was male, they reported on accusations against a powerful individual in the entertainment industry.



Or: There are a bunch of women who are too scared, even now, to come forward and say what he did to them.

In case you missed it, women who make these kinds of accusations suffer all sorts of negative effects. They can get attacked online, threatened and drive off social media, they can get doxxed... Plus, CK's manager (Dave Becky) is still a prominent figure in the entertainment industry -- arguably more influential than CK. Do you think anyone who publicly outed CK will be able to work on any project where Becky is involved?

Rebecca Corry was one of CK's accusers. She wrote about how after she went public, " I’ve received death threats, been berated, judged, ridiculed, dismissed, shamed, and attacked​." She also wrote:

The guy exploited his position of power to abuse women. A “comeback” implies he’s the underdog and victim, and he is neither. C.K. is a rich, powerful man who was fully aware that his actions were wrong. Yet he chose to behave grotesquely simply because he could. The only issue that matters is whether he will choose to stop abusing women.... Everyone deserves to do their job without fear of being forced into an impossible situation. And no one should ever be attacked or judged for standing up for themselves.
https://www.vulture.com/2018/05/louis-c-k-put-me-in-a-lose-lose-situation.html

The NYT is filled with little sucks who get off on virtue-signalling and abusing people for their own pocketbook.
Get in the game...

 

[Lursa]

Where does this idea that these woman were trying to use him come from?

The articles, someone posted here, mentioned women who approached him because he could use his influence with booking gigs.

 

[Buzz62]

What do you think kiddie porn is? I know what it is. I've never watched any. I just know if a person thinks 'kiddie-porn' is actually on the lower end of the fetishism spectrum, they probably have some splainin' to do.


Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

As I said...t'was an obvious figure of speech.
Nice try...:roll: