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Pelosi directs House Democrats to proceed with articles of impeachment against Trump

Conservative said:
Please explain to us where Turley got it wrong and why over 50% of the country doesn't support this Democratic Effort? What makes you right, Turley and the majority in this country wrong?

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Aggregate shows 53.8% support the democratic effort, so yes, the majority does indeed support it. Sorry, facts don't give a damn about your feelings.
 
Conservative said:
Would this be an issue for you if it were a Democrat in the WH? You seem to have as Turley claims, "agitated passion" over this issue, why? Do you think it is acceptable behavior on the part of the Democrats without as Turley stated, "compelling evidence" to impeach a President simply because of politics and hate? Are you capable of thinking of the consequences of the Democratic actions and the precedence being set?
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Yes, it would be impeachable for me. I wanted Obama impeached for his abuses with the drone strikes ffs.

Democrats are not impeaching Trump over hate. You're talking insanity now.

Democrats are impeaching Trump because the nation is TEARING ITSELF APART at Trump's behest. The man STOKES these flames and has now drawn the validity of our future elections into question.

Why is this acceptable to you?
 
Obscurity said:
Sondland NEVER walked back the QPQ - Only his estimation that the aid was tied to it.

You're willingly misrepresenting facts.

I have nothing further to add with you.
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Really? He NEVER walked it back? So when he was asked if anyone told him at any time about any QPQ and he said no.......did you think he meant yes?
 
sjmay said:
Really? He NEVER walked it back? So when he was asked if anyone told him at any time about any QPQ and he said no.......did you think he meant yes?
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He said yes there was a QPQ on the WH meeting.

He said he PRESUMED the QPQ existed for the aid.

As testified, on live television.

Sorry, you don't get to dictate to me what I watched and heard.

Now, we are done.
 
Is this the predetermined reaction if Democrats do well in 2020 or did this poster speak out of turn?

"with the gerrymandering that leftist are doing it will be hard for them to do so."
 
Obscurity said:
He said yes there was a QPQ on the WH meeting.

He said he PRESUMED the QPQ existed for the aid.

As testified, on live television.

Sorry, you don't get to dictate to me what I watched and heard.

Now, we are done.
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No, but I can ask you if you turned it off after the opening statement, because it's pretty damn obvious that you did.

When someone asks, did you hear anyone tell you about ANY qpq, of ANY kind for ANY thing....and the answer is no......that's walking back your opening statement, REGARDLESS of what that opening statement actually said.
 
Nalu said:
Is this the predetermined reaction if Democrats do well in 2020 or did this poster speak out of turn?

"with the gerrymandering that leftist are doing it will be hard for them to do so."
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Lololol. It's always the left. I swear, the hive mind of theocrat-oligarch-anarchist right wingers has to project incessantly onto the left everything they stand for. It's complete insanity.

The right wing is now a theocratic mess of 1984 disinformation and Trumpist catholicist authoritarianism.
 
Lutherf said:
I have never so much as IMAGINED a stronger case for the need to restore primary legislative authority to the states and rein in the federal government to their Constitutionally limited role. We, the People of the United States of America, delegated limited powers to the federal government to better serve needs common to the states. We DID NOT establish the federal government to act as arbiters of their own ambitions.

Donald Trump was elected primarily by people who had become DEEPLY disturbed by a political establishment that served themselves more than it served its delegated purpose. Many of us would have preferred someone else to fill that role but it fell to Trump and, frankly, I'm no longer sure that anyone else could have filled that role as well as he has.
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I don't like Trump, but your post is a really good insight into someone who does. Or at least someone who tolerates him.

I think there a lot more people who are disturbed by the political establishment (and the power brokers in general) than just people who voted for Trump. There are even a lot of them who might vote for the Republican if it wasn't Trump. I think where we differ is that Trump might have been the person to fill the role. I think he's done damage to the Republican party that will take a generation to repair.
 
Conservative said:
And what poll shows 54%? What is the make up of that poll? Sorry but here is reality and you never answered the question, how did Turley get it wrong?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Trump Impeachment and Removal From Office: Support/Oppose
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Turley's only correct statement was that this is going too fast.

I erred. More of the public supports impeachment inquiry, and more of the public supports removal from office. You said more than half oppose the democratic effort, which your source (and the one I used, where I typed 53.8%, I meant to say 3.8% more) confirms you are erroneous in your assessment more oppose than support.
 
Obscurity said:
Lololol. It's always the left. I swear, the hive mind of theocrat-oligarch-anarchist right wingers has to project incessantly onto the left everything they stand for. It's complete insanity.

The right wing is now a theocratic mess of 1984 disinformation and Trumpist catholicist authoritarianism.
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It is amazing how so many people can actually claim to watch the hearings and come to different conclusions. It is also stunning how partisan, biased, and hate filled today's Democratic Party is. Please explain to us all how Turley got it wrong on the video I posted. there can be no misinterpretation of what this Constitutional scholar said and yet people like you still ignore it. Now again for the polls!

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Trump Impeachment and Removal From Office: Support/Oppose
 
Obscurity said:
Turley's only correct statement was that this is going too fast.

I erred. More of the public supports impeachment inquiry, and more of the public supports removal from office. You said more than half oppose the democratic effort, which your source (and the one I used, where I typed 53.8%, I meant to say 3.8% more) confirms you are erroneous in your assessment more oppose than support.
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That in part is what he stated but he also stated a lot more that you ignored, Hate isn't justification for Impeachment and there is no compelling evidence to support the high crimes and misdemeanor ceiling normally used for Impeachment. Without compelling evidence why do you support the effort, hatred?
 
Obscurity said:
The QPQ was on the meeting and is confirmed via Sondland's Testimony, and Mulveney admitting it on television. Does that not count as evidence?

As far as Biden is concerned, you need to jump through some mental gymnastics to convince me that firing a corrupt prosecutor who was NOT actively investigating corruption, Shoken, is somehow a conflict of interest, when, the new prosecutor would far more likely investigate corruption, meaning Biden's ties to burisma, if they were illicit, would most likely come under new and enhanced scurtiny.

Moreover, you need to convince me that Shoken has no axe to grind after being ousted for his corrupt activities.

Go.
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QPQ was not confirmed during Sondland's testimony, in fact he said there was no QPQ per his conversation with Trump. So when you lead with a fabrication of the truth, I'm not even going to waste my time with the rest.
 
RedAkston said:
QPQ was not confirmed during Sondland's testimony, in fact he said there was no QPQ per his conversation with Trump. So when you lead with a fabrication of the truth, I'm not even going to waste my time with the rest.
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Hold on. You are going to completely ignore his opening testimony? What Mulveney said on live television?

Really?

Then I have nothing further to say to you, and won't waste MY time.
 
Conservative said:
It is amazing how so many people can actually claim to watch the hearings and come to different conclusions. It is also stunning how partisan, biased, and hate filled today's Democratic Party is. Please explain to us all how Turley got it wrong on the video I posted. there can be no misinterpretation of what this Constitutional scholar said and yet people like you still ignore it. Now again for the polls!

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Trump Impeachment and Removal From Office: Support/Oppose
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I will not further engage with someone who insists this is being done out of "hatred".

Your partisan drivel is one of the reasons we have such a massive chasm between us.
 
Obscurity said:
I will not further engage with someone who insists this is being done out of "hatred".

Your partisan drivel is one of the reasons we have such a massive chasm between us.
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That is probably a good choice for all of us as well because you entire argument is based upon hatred.There is no compelling evidence to support the actions on the part of the Democrat and that is a direct quote from Jonathan Turley, a Constitutional Scholar who didn't vote nor does he support Trump. You want to focus on his opening statement and not his testimony under examination. Why is that? Now run like most liberals do when you don't have an answer
 
Chomsky said:
I thought she made the case well. This should not be about politics, but Constitution & patriotism.
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As far as I'm concerned, this whole affair is nothing more than about partisan politics. It's been this way since the day after the election. Both sides think their right about this. One side views all of this as nothing more than a very partisan political vendetta, political revenge for Trump winning an election. The other side firmly believes Trump has committed crimes beyond the pale and abused presidential power. That he has stepped all over the Constitution and torn it to shreds. How's the public taking all of this? That depends on which side of the ultra high partisan aisle one is on.

Public response to impeachment hearings since their beginning. Comparing Trump’s approval ratings, percentage of those who want Trump impeached and removed along with those who don’t. As you can see Trump’s approval rating hasn’t really moved. Then there is the party break down. Democrats totally for impeachment and removal, Republicans totally against. Independents split right down the middle. Democrats for impeachment and removal have risen 5 point since the start of the hearings. Republicans against impeachment and removal has risen 8 points since the beginning. Independents, in favor of impeachment and removal have rose 6 points as too has independent against impeachment and removal. Bottom line, these hearing hasn’t moved the needle or changed anyone’s view on the situation except make each side harden their position on Trump.
Impeachment hearings began on 13 Nov 2019 vs. 5 Dec 2019
Trump’s approval 13 Nov 43.9%, 5 Dec 43.8%

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval

13 Nov Democrats for impeachment and removal 82%, 5 Dec Democrats for impeachment and removal 87%.
13 Nov Republicans for impeachment and removal 12%, 5 Dec Republicans for impeachment and removal 9%.
13 Nov Independents for impeachment and removal 38%, 5 Dec Independents for impeachment and removal 44%.
13 Nov Democrats against impeachment and removal 6%, 5 Dec Democrats against impeachment and removal 8%.
13 Nov Republicans against impeachment and removal 80%, 5 Dec Republicans against impeachment and removal 88%.
13 Nov Independents against impeachment and removal 39%, 5 Dec Independents against impeachment and removal 45%.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Trump Impeachment and Removal From Office: Support/Oppose
 
Conservative said:
That is probably a good choice for all of us as well because you entire argument is based upon hatred.There is no compelling evidence to support the actions on the part of the Democrat and that is a direct quote from Jonathan Turley, a Constitutional Scholar who didn't vote nor does he support Trump. You want to focus on his opening statement and not his testimony under examination. Why is that? Now run like most liberals do when you don't have an answer
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Run like most liberals do?

1. I am not a liberal.

2. You ignore mountains of evidence, daily, from basically everyone, to justify your embrace of this ignorant moron president.

Your screed here is why this chasm exists. Your screed here is why none of us can take you seriously.

No go tuck tail, stick your head in the sand, and ignore every inconvenient fact in your deification of Trump.

We're all watching to make sure you remain a good little soldier.
 
Nalu said:
I don't like Trump, but your post is a really good insight into someone who does. Or at least someone who tolerates him.

I think there a lot more people who are disturbed by the political establishment (and the power brokers in general) than just people who voted for Trump. There are even a lot of them who might vote for the Republican if it wasn't Trump. I think where we differ is that Trump might have been the person to fill the role. I think he's done damage to the Republican party that will take a generation to repair.
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Thank you for reading and seeking to understand what was intended. That's not happening around here as much ass it used to.

Trump is the result of a Republican party that was very much damaged before he came along. He is the result of both major parties turning to a global political system rather than focusing on local and national issues. He is the result of people who see power being consolidated and broader levels as being a danger to societies at more personal levels. If the people are to maintain dominion over their own destinies they need to hold political leaders closest to them most accountable and when that ability to hold the political decision makers to account is drawn to less accessible levels the people lose control.
 
joko104 said:
The Democrats in the House just spit on that idea - waiting until Trump was attending a planned meeting with NATO leaders to inject their domestic politics of chaos into NATO.
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Your blaming others for Trump's failures ...
 
Obscurity said:
Run like most liberals do?

1. I am not a liberal.

2. You ignore mountains of evidence, daily, from basically everyone, to justify your embrace of this ignorant moron president.

Your screed here is why this chasm exists. Your screed here is why none of us can take you seriously.

No go tuck tail, stick your head in the sand, and ignore every inconvenient fact in your deification of Trump.

We're all watching to make sure you remain a good little soldier.
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No it is you that ignores the mountain of evidence as none of that evidence is actual facts, just opinions, assumptions, perception, hearsay. You want Trump out of office, you will have that chance in November 2020 so why is this so important to you now? Would you have the same passion if similar charges were levied against a Democratic President? Abuse of power didn't seem to bother you when Obama was in office as all that evidence was stronger than what you have here

Why don't you post the Opening statement of Sondland's then the video of his testimony? Why is it you claim there is compelling evidence when so many others including someone who didn't support Trump and didn't vote for Trump, Jonathan Turley don't see that evidence?
 
dobieg said:
I'd believe you more if you just said Trump is a poopy head and you'd get behind anything that gets him out of office.


I'd be the same way if a whiny ass bitch of a liberal was in office who was pushing initiatives I hated.
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If this was a simply matters of policy, you'd be right. But Trump's actions are far deeper, striking at the heart of democracy, Constitution, and patriotism.
 
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