Omar, dismantle system

[Felis Leo]

I think that's part of the point being made here, though. If you have a justice system built for one Class, but not for the rest, you have a fundamental issue. Justice was supposed to be blind, the scales weren't meant to measure wealth.

Well, that is true. Which is why I am all for imprisoning young snot-nosed rich white kids for the same length of time as young snot-nosed poor black kids are for the same crimes.

Everyone should be treated with the same gentleness or the same harshness. I tend towards favoring harshness. Keeps the riffraff out of society.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

What do you disagree with her about, do you think our economy, political, and justice system do not prioritize profit or inequality?

What do you mean by prioritizing inequality?

 

[trixare4kids]

And you still think they aren't commies?

Ilhan Omar Calls For 'Dismantling' US Economy And Political System

And she will be the puppeteer who manipulates addled-brain Biden should he win the election.

 

[Xilnik]

What's wrong with profit?

It makes for an unequal system.

Affluenza teen, you think that's fair?

Ethan Couch - Wikipedia

I have to say that I am in favor of capitalism, which does promote a profit system. What I am not in favor of is these tycoons who keep wages relatively flat for the American workforce while they rake in all the profits. And who are most of the tycoons? White privileged Americans.

When company owners are making billions to eventually amass close to or exceed a trillion dollars in net worth, something is catastrophically wrong with the economic system, and we can see it in how the middle class and impoverished are now struggling in our country. We now have the 1% holding most of the country's wealth, expecting working class Americans to do 2-3 times the work for equivalent wages to twenty years ago, but the cost of living has doubled if not more. People also receive less benefits today than 20 years ago.

I think capitalism was working pretty well through the 1980s and most of the 1990s. It flipped with the millennium, and it flipped bigtime with the bank and corporate bailouts in 2008. We need to find a way to drive the system back toward something more sustainable and livable for all Americans.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I think that's part of the point being made here, though. If you have a justice system built for one Class, but not for the rest, you have a fundamental issue. Justice was supposed to be blind, the scales weren't meant to measure wealth.

No, that’s not a sound argument. The system was built for all classes, but upper class people can always afford better stuff. It’s the law of reality.

You could hire a ten person legal team for every public defender case and someone can afford 11.

There is literally no society that can possibly exist where one class of people will not benefit over another.

That doesn’t mean the system was built to work that way, it is merely an inevitable and unchanging result

 

[Ikari]

Well, that is true. Which is why I am all for imprisoning young snot-nosed rich white kids for the same length of time as young snot-nosed poor black kids are for the same crimes.

Everyone should be treated with the same gentleness or the same harshness. I tend towards favoring harshness. Keeps the riffraff out.

They should be treated the same, but aren't. I think that's part of what Omar is talking about. When the system is built for the Aristocracy but not the People, you don't have a free Republic built of the People, by the People, for the People; you have an oligarchy. And if you suffer from the injustices of an oligarchy you should "dismantle" it.

 

[Ikari]

No, that’s not a sound argument. The system was built for all classes, but upper class people can always afford better stuff. It’s the law of reality.

You could hire a ten person legal team for every public defender case and someone can afford 11.

There is literally no society that can possibly exist where one class of people will not benefit over another.

That doesn’t mean the system was built to work that way, it is merely an inevitable and unchanging result

One class typically will benefit over others, but a system, a government, which enforces and proliferates that benefit through all branches of that society, government, legislation, and judicial, is an oligarchy. And there's nothing wrong with calling for the "dismantling" of an oligarchy in order to make a system of government more capable for serving the People in general instead of just the Aristocrats.

 

[Jetboogieman]

You can’t reason with most conservatives on this particular issue.

These are people that go into a voting booth every election and vote for people who promise to take healthcare away from them.

You can’t reason with that kind of stupid.

They support a political and economic system that is actively making them worse off.

 

[Lisa]

And you still think they aren't commies?

Ilhan Omar Calls For 'Dismantling' US Economy And Political System

She did not say that she wants to dismantle the economy. This is her quote.

As long as our economy and political systems prioritize profit without considering who is profiting, who is being shut out, we will perpetuate this inequality,” she said at a livestreamed event in Minnesota on Tuesday. “We cannot stop at [the] criminal justice system. We must begin the work of dismantling the whole system of oppression.”

 

[lwf]

That's fine for you to go that route. But Ilhan Omar's statements are all over this morning's news.

“We can’t stop at criminal justice reform or policing reform,” Omar said on Tuesday. “We are not merely fighting to tear down the systems of oppression in the criminal justice system. We are fighting to tear down systems of oppression that exist in housing, in education, in health care, in employment, [and] in the air we breathe.”

“As long as our economy and political systems prioritize profit without considering who is profiting, who is being shut out, we will perpetuate this inequality,” Omar said at the press conference. “So we cannot stop at [the] criminal justice system. We must begin the work of dismantling the whole system of oppression wherever we find it.”

Shocking... :roll:

One must be careful not to only get their news from biased sources.

 

[americanwoman]

Is communism your solutiin?

No, are you going to provide a good argument why Omar is wrong beside "communism"?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I have to say that I am in favor of capitalism, which does promote a profit system. What I am not in favor of is these tycoons who keep wages relatively flat for the American workforce while they rake in all the profits. And who are most of the tycoons? White privileged Americans.

When company owners are making billions to amass close to or exceed a trillion dollars in net worth, something is catastrophically wrong with the economic system, and we can see it in how the middle class and impoverished are now struggling in our country. We now have the 1% holding most of the country's wealth, expecting working class Americans to do 2-3 times the work for equivalent wages to twenty years ago, but the cost of living has doubled if not more. People also receive less benefits today than 20 years ago.

I think capitalism was working pretty well through the 1980s and most of the 1990s. It flipped with the millennium, and it flipped bigtime with the bank and corporate bailouts in 2008. We need to find a way to drive the system back toward something more sustainable and livable for all Americans.

The middle class and poor are not necessarily struggling because of capitalism, but because of government.

Some examples are housing affordability, if Washington repealed all building codes and inspections post 1990 and repealed the growth management act then houses would be affordable <220K overnight. Of course existing homeowners would throw a cow, but point remains.

Other issues are caused because of fringe social movements, the propagation of divorce and birth control resulted in destroyed families, industrial offshoring did more, and commitment to an outdated school model. The rich in terms of capitalists didn’t do this without support from government regulators.

Also you seem to not understand how executive worth works, a CEO worth a billion dollars does not literally have 1 billion dollars, most of that worth is in investments.

Think Jeff Bezos or Zuckerburg, their wealth comes from the valuation of stock in companies they founded.

If Bezos tried to sell any significant part of his Amazon stock his wealth would plummet like a rock because it would tell other investors to sell.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

One class typically will benefit over others, but a system, a government, which enforces and proliferates that benefit through all branches of that society, government, legislation, and judicial, is an oligarchy. And there's nothing wrong with calling for the "dismantling" of an oligarchy in order to make a system of government more capable for serving the People in general instead of just the Aristocrats.

The government doesn’t proliferate the benefit, the benefit simply exists.

So you’ll trade aristocrats in the form of robber barrons for aristocrats who wear green fatigues and smoke cigars and use the wealth of the people to promote communist revolution. You won’t be better off.

And as a point of fact, We do not have any oligarchy since wealth alone does not confer legal power.

Bernie Madoff didn’t have special privileges and neither did Ken Lay from being wealthy.

 

[apdst]

No, are you going to provide a good argument why Omar is wrong beside "communism"?

The system doesn't need to be dismantled. It's the best system on the planet. She's wrong.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

One class typically will benefit over others, but a system, a government, which enforces and proliferates that benefit through all branches of that society, government, legislation, and judicial, is an oligarchy. And there's nothing wrong with calling for the "dismantling" of an oligarchy in order to make a system of government more capable for serving the People in general instead of just the Aristocrats.

And also, the only reason this bothers you is because it bothers you. If you put your faith in God and focused on improving your own life it wouldn’t matter to you in the least that wealthy people are wealthy. You are materially wealthier then virtually all humans who ever lived. The wealthiest of royalty couldn’t post to a message board like we are even 100 years ago

 

[Ikari]

The government doesn’t proliferate the benefit, the benefit simply exists.

So you’ll trade aristocrats in the form of robber barrons for aristocrats who wear green fatigues and smoke cigars and use the wealth of the people to promote communist revolution. You won’t be better off.

And as a point of fact, We do not have any oligarchy since wealth alone does not confer legal power.

Bernie Madoff didn’t have special privileges and neither did Ken Lay from being wealthy.

If this benefit is endorsed through the courts, the the government certainly does proliferate the benefit as the courts are part of government.

Rarely do the rich face the same justice as the average citizen.

If you have a system that has systematically used the force of government to uphold and proliferate the benefits of the Aristocracy over that of the People, then there is an issue, and there's no problem calling for an end to that injustice.

 

[Xilnik]

The middle class and poor are not necessarily struggling because of capitalism, but because of government.

Some examples are housing affordability, if Washington repealed all building codes and inspections post 1990 and repealed the growth management act then houses would be affordable <220K overnight. Of course existing homeowners would throw a cow, but point remains.

Other issues are caused because of fringe social movements, the propagation of divorce and birth control resulted in destroyed families, industrial offshoring did more, and commitment to an outdated school model. The rich in terms of capitalists didn’t do this without support from government regulators.

Also you seem to not understand how executive worth works, a CEO worth a billion dollars does not literally have 1 billion dollars, most of that worth is in investments.

Think Jeff Bezos or Zuckerburg, their wealth comes from the valuation of stock in companies they founded.

If Bezos tried to sell any significant part of his Amazon stock his wealth would plummet like a rock because it would tell other investors to sell.

Point taken on net worth, but that still does not really change my argument. The insane profits of the business are still being made through lower wages and reduced benefits by the working class. Did Bezos really need to cut healthcare of part-time workers at Whole Foods to increase Amazon's profit margin last year?

 

[Ikari]

And also, the only reason this bothers you is because it bothers you. If you put your faith in God and focused on improving your own life it wouldn’t matter to you in the least that wealthy people are wealthy. You are materially wealthier then virtually all humans who ever lived. The wealthiest of royalty couldn’t post to a message board like we are even 100 years ago

I don't care if wealthy people are wealthy. Though I am concerned with force of government being used for the benefit of the Aristocracy over that of the People. When there are two levels of justice, there is injustice. A government should work for the People on whole, not just a specific class.

 

[Felis Leo]

They should be treated the same, but aren't. I think that's part of what Omar is talking about. When the system is built for the Aristocracy but not the People, you don't have a free Republic built of the People, by the People, for the People; you have an oligarchy. And if you suffer from the injustices of an oligarchy you should "dismantle" it.

That is where I believe you are wrong, Ikari. The justice system was not built for an aristocracy, but for all people. It is an egalitarian system. If it were not and certainly judging from history, the wealthy, the elite, the aristocrat would not be in the same Courts as the commoner. Nobles were not tried before peasants in aristocratic courts. What we have is the result of an overtaxed system. The prosecutors are poorly funded. The public defenders even moreso. And the wealthy are able to hire the best legal private defense teams who are able to run circles around the prosecution who have only so much personnel, funding and manpower to try cases.

 

[Xilnik]

The system doesn't need to be dismantled. It's the best system on the planet. She's wrong.

I get the feeling you do not understand what Omar is pushing to have dismantled. What system do you think is being dismantled?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If this benefit is endorsed through the courts, the the government certainly does proliferate the benefit as the courts are part of government.

Rarely do the rich face the same justice as the average citizen.

If you have a system that has systematically used the force of government to uphold and proliferate the benefits of the Aristocracy over that of the People, then there is an issue, and there's no problem calling for an end to that injustice.

Pick one example of how the government does this.

 

[Ikari]

That is where I believe you are wrong, Ikari. The justice system was not built for an aristocracy, but for all people. It is an egalitarian system. If it were not and certainly judging from history, the wealthy, the elite, the aristocrat would not be in the same Courts as the commoner. Nobles were not tried before peasants in aristocratic courts. What we have is the result of an overtaxed system. The prosecutors are poorly funded. The public defenders even moreso. And the wealthy are able to hire the best legal private defense teams who are able to run circles around the prosecution who have only so much personnel, funding and manpower to try cases.

The justice system statistically hands out different results depending on whether one is part of the New Aristocracy or not. That is in the system, and needs to be addressed.

 

[Ikari]

Pick one example of how the government does this.

The rich kid who killed 4 people drunk driving and got away with it. What would happen to an average citizen if they DUI killed 4 people?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I don't care if wealthy people are wealthy. Though I am concerned with force of government being used for the benefit of the Aristocracy over that of the People. When there are two levels of justice, there is injustice. A government should work for the People on whole, not just a specific class.

In what way is the force of the government used for the “aristocracy” (also can we define this term, in Ancien regime Europe systems being an aristocrat did not mean being rich, in fact many aristocrats were broke or deeply in debt, there were many clergy, urban merchants, even some landed peasants who were wealthier then some aristocrats, being an aristocrat gave you legal privileges and responsibilities in law based on your blood, we clearly do not have this system in the US) against commoners (and again, define)

 

[apdst]

She did not say that she wants to dismantle the economy. This is her quote.

She said the "whole system". The economy is a part of the system.