Obama Disses Post Office,Destroys His Own Arguement

[Strucky]

President Obama destoyed his own Healthcare plan unintentionally-

Video

I seriously cannot believe people were tricked into voting for this guy.

 

[RightinNYC]

I normally hate threads that are just a video without description, but this is actually worthwhile.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XTi-WdOu2s"]YouTube - post office[/ame]

Youtube link for anyone who wants to watch in browser.

Basically, Obama is talking about how the public option will work well with the private options.

He says two things that I think are interesting.

First, he says that the public option would have "no support from the taxpayer" and would be forced to survive on its own. Is this really what has been proposed?

Second, as an example of why the public option won't drive the private options out of business, he says "Hey, I mean, look at UPS and FedEx. They're doing great. It's the post office that's having problems."

lol.

 

[Kandahar]

Second, as an example of why the public option won't drive the private options out of business, he says "Hey, I mean, look at UPS and FedEx. They're doing great. It's the post office that's having problems."

Well he raises a good point. If the public option will be such a huge disaster of bureaucrats picking your doctors and denying you treatment for certain conditions (as though corporate bureaucrats weren't doing this now), in a horrendously inefficient system that ultimately euthanizes its patients - as some critics claim - then the private insurers should have nothing to worry about. Obviously people won't abandon them en masse to get the public option if it's as horrible as its detractors claim.

 

[Strucky]

I normally hate threads that are just a video without description

My bad,I dont usually do that...Was in a bit of a rush.

 

[RightinNYC]

Well he raises a good point. If the public option will be such a huge disaster of bureaucrats picking your doctors and denying you treatment for certain conditions (as though corporate bureaucrats weren't doing this now), in a horrendously inefficient system that ultimately euthanizes its patients - as some critics claim - then the private insurers should have nothing to worry about. Obviously people won't abandon them en masse to get the public option if it's as horrible as its detractors claim.

And if that happens, then the only people to shift to the public plan will be individuals who are otherwise unable to get health care at an affordable price - largely those who are either lower-income or who are suffering from expensive illnesses not covered by their private insurance

Because those people would obviously be unable to afford premiums that would actually cover their expenses, the government will have to subsidize the plan. Once we've broken that seal, there's no fixing it.

If I were a cynical man, I'd say that that's the end goal of the program, Obama's protestations that no public money will be used notwithstanding.

My bad,I dont usually do that...Was in a bit of a rush.

No worries. :2wave:

 

[sam_w]

And if that happens, then the only people to shift to the public plan will be individuals who are otherwise unable to get health care at an affordable price - largely those who are either lower-income or who are suffering from expensive illnesses not covered by their private insurance

Because those people would obviously be unable to afford premiums that would actually cover their expenses, the government will have to subsidize the plan. Once we've broken that seal, there's no fixing it.

If I were a cynical man, I'd say that that's the end goal of the program, Obama's protestations that no public money will be used notwithstanding.



No worries. :2wave:

When he has he protested that no public money would be used? They have been talking about something all together different when referring to whether the bill would be + or - .

 

[hazlnut]

My bad,I dont usually do that...Was in a bit of a rush.

Definitely a misstep.

The old days of the post office losing your mail disappeared in the digital age of electric scanners, bar codes, and automated machines. I've shipped tons of stuff over the last five years and had a great experience with the USPS. The major problem with the USPS is that it currently operates at a loss. That's fixable. But the availability of $4.60 Priority Mail keeps UPS and Fed Ex honest as far as pricing.

UPS is also a good option depending on my needs.

But Obama's portraying the USPS as less than reliable does not help his analogy to the 'Public Option'.

 

[Kandahar]

And if that happens, then the only people to shift to the public plan will be individuals who are otherwise unable to get health care at an affordable price - largely those who are either lower-income or who are suffering from expensive illnesses not covered by their private insurance

So this will provide them with health insurance when previously they had none. How exactly does that hurt the private insurers? (Last I checked, the goal of health reform wasn't to protect private insurers anyway, but I digress.)

The only way it can hurt private insurers is if people who previously had private insurance plans decide that they like the government plan better, and drop their coverage. And if that happens, then it will prove the arguments about government-run health care being horrible-and-inefficient-and-rationing-and-euthanasia wrong.

Because those people would obviously be unable to afford premiums that would actually cover their expenses, the government will have to subsidize the plan. Once we've broken that seal, there's no fixing it.

Most of the health care bills going around Congress make it illegal for private insurers to discriminate against people on the basis of age, gender, or preexisting condition anyway. So those people will be just as able to afford a private plan as a public plan. Again, the only reason they'd choose the public plan is because they like it better.

As for the poor...yeah, they'll need subsidies. But they can't afford private health insurance to begin with, so once again the public plan is not unfairly stealing customers from private insurers. But for what it's worth, I'd prefer that the poor be given a voucher to buy ANY health insurance they want (public or private) instead of insisting they take the public plan.

If I were a cynical man, I'd say that that's the end goal of the program, Obama's protestations that no public money will be used notwithstanding.

You'd say what is the end goal? To help people who can't afford health insurance buy it? Stop the presses.

 

[Strucky]

And if that happens, then it will prove the arguments about government-run health care being horrible-and-inefficient-and-rationing-and-euthanasia wrong.

The most telling indicator that this plan is a bust is the fact congress voted to not include themselves in the plan.

 

[j-mac]

Definitely a misstep.

The old days of the post office losing your mail disappeared in the digital age of electric scanners, bar codes, and automated machines. I've shipped tons of stuff over the last five years and had a great experience with the USPS. The major problem with the USPS is that it currently operates at a loss. That's fixable. But the availability of $4.60 Priority Mail keeps UPS and Fed Ex honest as far as pricing.

UPS is also a good option depending on my needs.

But Obama's portraying the USPS as less than reliable does not help his analogy to the 'Public Option'.

And they are fixing it how?

Loss in 2009 $7 Billion

Projected loss in 2010 $7 billion.

Yeah, a model of efficiency....


j-mac

 

[RightinNYC]

When he has he protested that no public money would be used? They have been talking about something all together different when referring to whether the bill would be + or - .

Did you watch the video? Obama, responding to a question about how private insurers will compete with a public option:

If the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self sustaining, meaning that taxpayers aren’t subsidizing it, but it has to run on charging premiums, providing good services and a good network of doctors just like any private insurer would do, then I think that private insurers should be able to compete.

So this will provide them with health insurance when previously they had none. How exactly does that hurt the private insurers? (Last I checked, the goal of health reform wasn't to protect private insurers anyway, but I digress.)

The only way it can hurt private insurers is if people who previously had private insurance plans decide that they like the government plan better, and drop their coverage. And if that happens, then it will prove the arguments about government-run health care being horrible-and-inefficient-and-rationing-and-euthanasia wrong.

I'm not saying that this part is bad in and of itself. You have to read all of what I said together.

Most of the health care bills going around Congress make it illegal for private insurers to discriminate against people on the basis of age, gender, or preexisting condition anyway. So those people will be just as able to afford a private plan as a public plan. Again, the only reason they'd choose the public plan is because they like it better.

Despite that, there are still plenty of things that will make insurance more expensive for an individual with lots of risk factors. Those individuals will be more likely to use the public plan and will thus drive up the average cost to the point where it can't compete with the private plan without subsidy.

As for the poor...yeah, they'll need subsidies. But they can't afford private health insurance to begin with, so once again the public plan is not unfairly stealing customers from private insurers. But for what it's worth, I'd prefer that the poor be given a voucher to buy ANY health insurance they want (public or private) instead of insisting they take the public plan.

I'm not really concerned about them stealing customers, I'm concerned about the program moving from a public option supported by premiums to a public option supported by ever-increasing infusions from general revenue. I'm not opposed to the idea of a public plan, provided that it operates in the way Obama was talking about.

You'd say what is the end goal? To help people who can't afford health insurance buy it? Stop the presses.

To get to a system where we have a public option that is covering most of the population and which is supported by general taxpayer dollars.

 

[Kandahar]

The most telling indicator that this plan is a bust is the fact congress voted to not include themselves in the plan.

What do you mean? Is there some provision that I'm unaware of that would ban congressmen from participating in the public option, if they are dissatisfied with the health insurance they receive as a congressman?

 

[j-mac]

What do you mean? Is there some provision that I'm unaware of that would ban congressmen from participating in the public option, if they are dissatisfied with the health insurance they receive as a congressman?

I think you are misunderstanding here. We'll find out whether or not it is on purpose. Strucky is telling you that they voted to not be compelled to participate in the plan, NOT that they were restricted from doing such. See, they don't want to have to participate in the same crap that we the common folk have to swallow.


j-mac

 

[Fiddytree]

President Obama destoyed his own Healthcare plan unintentionally-

Video

I seriously cannot believe people were tricked into voting for this guy.

What is weird about some people taking the analogy is that they may take it too far. Granted the private industry has its benefits with postal delivery, but I don't know about you, but I have had pretty good experiences with the Post Office. Furthermore, USPS is certainly more observable and measurable than health care, and the consensus has long been that for a service that is used as frequently as it has been, the USPS is doing a great job.

 

[j-mac]

What is weird about some people taking the analogy is that they may take it too far. Granted the private industry has its benefits with postal delivery, but I don't know about you, but I have had pretty good experiences with the Post Office. Furthermore, USPS is certainly more observable and measurable than health care.

So forget whether or not it is a huge drain on taxpayer money, you have had good experience with it so let it be eh?


2009 losses for USPS = $7 Billion

Projected losses for USPS 2010 = $7 Billion again.


j-mac

 

[Fiddytree]

So forget whether or not it is a huge drain on taxpayer money, you have had good experience with it so let it be eh?


2009 losses for USPS = $7 Billion

Projected losses for USPS 2010 = $7 Billion again.


j-mac

Most of the American public seems to think it is just fine, and that matters a great deal as to what the American public will demand to be done in the future.

 

[j-mac]

Most of the American public seems to think it is just fine, and that matters a great deal as to what the American public will demand to be done in the future.

The so called "demands" of the American public seem to be turning into what Congress tells you they are.


j-mac

 

[Fiddytree]

The so called "demands" of the American public seem to be turning into what Congress tells you they are.


j-mac

The American public is taking orders from Congress?

 

[j-mac]

The American public is taking orders from Congress?

Might as well be, congress could care less what the public has to say.


j-mac

 

[Strucky]

Might as well be, congress could care less what the public has to say.


j-mac

what!?! Your saying Pelosi and Reid dont care what we say!!!You are obviously being influence by the likes of that evil Limbaugh.

 

[Kandahar]

I think you are misunderstanding here. We'll find out whether or not it is on purpose. Strucky is telling you that they voted to not be compelled to participate in the plan, NOT that they were restricted from doing such. See, they don't want to have to participate in the same crap that we the common folk have to swallow.


j-mac

No one is being compelled to participate in the public option, so why would they make a special exception to force THEMSELVES to participate in it? You don't have to participate anymore than they do, if you have other health insurance that you like.

 

[Fiddytree]

Might as well be, congress could care less what the public has to say.


j-mac

Congress cares enough if their votes are at risk, which they clearly are here. Not too much need to resort to hysterics about the grand evils of government.

 

[j-mac]

No one is being compelled to participate in the public option, so why would they make a special exception to force THEMSELVES to participate in it? You don't have to participate anymore than they do, if you have other health insurance that you like.

Apparently you are buying what the administration says blindly about the public option. There are some problems Obama has with the truth there I believe.


j-mac

 

[j-mac]

Congress cares enough if their votes are at risk, which they clearly are here. Not too much need to resort to hysterics about the grand evils of government.

Well, they sure aren't acting like it anymore. Maybe due to the rise of ACORN to a protected status as the Presidents chosen, along with the SEIU as their henchmen.


j-mac

 

[Fiddytree]

Well, they sure aren't acting like it anymore. Maybe due to the rise of ACORN to a protected status as the Presidents chosen, along with the SEIU as their henchmen.


j-mac

If they are not acting like it anymore, why the appearance of internal arguments about the feasibility of the health care bill?