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NYC Subways so bad that $836 million extra is considered a bandaid

Hawkeye10 said:
Great, Now please explain to me why you are giving me an ancient history lesson on how the trains, while stinky and full of bums and graffiti, ran on time and faster 40-50 years ago (You might not know that the trains have been slowed thus capacity was reduced even on a good day, however few of them there are)?


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/11/15949284/new-york-subway-crisis
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Greetings, Hawkeye10. :2wave:

Once again, I give thanks that I don't live in NYC, and have to depend on a subway system! :roll:
 
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polgara said:
:roll:

Greetings, Hawkeye10. :2wave:

Once again, I give thanks that I don't live in NYC, and have to depend on a subway system! :roll:
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Greetings!

Especially because there is no plan on how to turn the corner....$20 billion they say it needs which means that it is actually at least $30 billion probably closer to $40 billion which no one is putting up, and a decade (If they were fast...probably more like two decades) of disruption and economic loses to the city to get it done.....lets call it $100+ billion when it is all said and done....
 
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Surrealistik said:
Where's the infrastructure spending Trump promised?
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Surrealistik said:
Cuomo is obviously a scum bag, but that doesn't actually explain where Trump's trillion+ of infrastructure spending went, other than posturing as a fake carrot to be held out for the mid terms, and yes, there is no way Congress is going to approve it; exactly the point. Even Trump, as dumb as he is, is cognizant of that; it's a false promise he'll never have to keep because he'll never be in a position to.
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Isn't this enough?? Thank you Obama.

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JMR said:
At least get the story straight. The Midtown Tunnel was retiled, part of extensive repair done both because of Sandy and 80 years of use. Opponents of Cuomo are now claiming that if only white tiles had been used, instead of a including a stripe of a colored tile, the job would be 30 million dollars cheaper. Well, the colored tile was part of the plan. I have no idea what you are referencing with tiles being laid 3 months earlier? Maybe the Post was spinning a bit. Interesting to see Cuomo get attacked over this by right wing Murdoch NY Post, and left wing crazy Cynthia Nixon. Makes one think Cuomo is probably in the right here.

$30 million is about one week a Mar-Lago, right?
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Bushwah. Try getting the story straight yourself. The retiling was scheduled before Sandy. The stripe you mentioned was a safety feature, fluorescent glazing that warned "slow down" when temperatures made for icy conditions. The tiling was finished before Cuomo stuck his beak where it didn't belong. He spent a $30 mil Federal grant that could have been used better elsewhere. If the Post got the story, it was second hand. Cuomo was pegged by Channel One News on Spectrum Cable. The story was picked up by AP and Bloomberg. A spokesperson from the Transit Workers Union spilled the beans. They aren't the only union going to war with Cuomo. Say "vanity" for me. Cynthia Nixon is no threat to Cuomo, Andy is his own worst enemy. Maybe he should resign himself to a future of playing with his pony cars, he's ordered a new Vette.

A week at Mar Lago, Queen bed for 2, including golf for two mornings, daily breakfast, pool access, and parking, about $1,400 at the hotel. Private club access, $18k annually with a bungalow apt (time sharing 6 weeks annually), bedroom, parlor and kitchenette, cleaning service, linens and robes, 3 weekly golf 18 hole rounds for 3 mornings, pool access. For both, the bar is a la carte. Tennis courts and gym for all guests. Other services as requested are a la carte, like every other resort these days.

Recent guests, Chuck Schumer and wife, Mr & Mrs Abedin (incognito), David Oglethorpe and guest (Erie County Dem Leader), Walter Van Arsdale and guest, wow, all democrats.
 
JMR said:
Correction, there is a lot he can do as president. He can harangue and intimidate the Congressman as he did for his attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare, and to pass his tax cut, and to approve his nominations, and to subvert judicial committees, etc. etc. This is also a fact.
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No there is little that he can do except continue to push congress but that doesn't mean they are going to make a bill.
so again this is a congressional issue not an executive one.
 
Apparently there is already a ten year tentatively $37 billion plan:

While sources put the cost of the plan at $37 billion, Lhota said “The costing of the Byford Plan is not complete. It will be completed in connection with the development of the 2020-2024 Capital Plan. Any estimates are premature and are inevitably inaccurate.”
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https://nypost.com/2018/05/22/mta-plans-decade-of-hell-to-finally-fix-subways/


$40 billion clearly will not be enough, with the way these governments lowball prices it is a good practice on huge projects to assume 50% more than the highest estimate, and hope for the best.
 
More great news:

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s rising labor and debt-service costs are eating away at its bond rating.

S&P Global Ratings Monday lowered the rating of the busiest mass transit system in the U.S. to A+ from AA-, as the amount of cash left over after it pays its debts fell below a key threshold, the rating company said. Net debt-service coverage, or the amount of cash left over after the MTA pays operating expenses, may fall below 1 times annual debt-service cost. The MTA is facing budget deficits of $403 million in fiscal 2020 and $602 million in the following year.
.
.
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Both Cuomo and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio agree the MTA, which has $38.6 billion in debt, requires more capital investment. They disagree on who should pay for it and how. Cuomo has proposed a plan to charge motorists a fee to enter Manhattan while de Blasio advocates increased taxes on residents earning more than $500,000 per year to pay for upgrades. De Blasio didn’t include money for the MTA’s $836 million “stabilization plan" in its budget. Cuomo committed to paying half.

The MTA is being squeezed by rapidly rising payroll, health-care and debt costs. Labor expenses are projected to climb to almost $11 billion in fiscal year 2021, a 19 percent increase over fiscal year 2016. Debt service is projected to grow 29 percent to about $3.2 billion.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-and-payroll-costs-take-toll-on-credit-rating

And More:
Manhattan DA will no longer prosecute turnstile jumping
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https://www.politico.com/states/new...-no-longer-prosecute-turnstile-jumping-229568
 
iliveonramen said:
The DC metro is pretty nice except for constantly broke escalators
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And train crashes....

It sure helps that they are shedding passengers like crazy..

Indeed, in 2017, average weekday rail ridership was 612,000—matching numbers last seen in 2001. In 2009, the year of peak ridership, average weekday rail ridership stood at 750,000, and passenger numbers have declined year over year since then.
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https://www.weeklystandard.com/etha...umbers-arent-quite-as-impressive-as-they-seem
 
OldFatGuy said:
Bushwah. Try getting the story straight yourself. The retiling was scheduled before Sandy. The stripe you mentioned was a safety feature, fluorescent glazing that warned "slow down" when temperatures made for icy conditions. The tiling was finished before Cuomo stuck his beak where it didn't belong. He spent a $30 mil Federal grant that could have been used better elsewhere. If the Post got the story, it was second hand. Cuomo was pegged by Channel One News on Spectrum Cable. The story was picked up by AP and Bloomberg. A spokesperson from the Transit Workers Union spilled the beans. They aren't the only union going to war with Cuomo. Say "vanity" for me. Cynthia Nixon is no threat to Cuomo, Andy is his own worst enemy. Maybe he should resign himself to a future of playing with his pony cars, he's ordered a new Vette.

A week at Mar Lago, Queen bed for 2, including golf for two mornings, daily breakfast, pool access, and parking, about $1,400 at the hotel. Private club access, $18k annually with a bungalow apt (time sharing 6 weeks annually), bedroom, parlor and kitchenette, cleaning service, linens and robes, 3 weekly golf 18 hole rounds for 3 mornings, pool access. For both, the bar is a la carte. Tennis courts and gym for all guests. Other services as requested are a la carte, like every other resort these days.

Recent guests, Chuck Schumer and wife, Mr & Mrs Abedin (incognito), David Oglethorpe and guest (Erie County Dem Leader), Walter Van Arsdale and guest, wow, all democrats.
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Your description of this project is utter horse****. Even the NY Post, enemy of Cuomo casts it in a better light.

https://nypost.com/2018/07/23/cuomo-claims-federal-funds-covered-30m-tunnel-retiling-project/

A week for Trump at his own home.. Mar Lago.. is 30 million dollars to the taxpayers to protect his sorry ass. And he goes there a lot...unlike Obama who hardly ever took a vacation.
 
ludin said:
No there is little that he can do except continue to push congress but that doesn't mean they are going to make a bill.
so again this is a congressional issue not an executive one.
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Please do point out one instance of Trump "pushing" Congress on this issue.. :waiting:
 
iliveonramen said:
If you are going a short distance its faster to catch an Uber them hop on a train. It has nothing to do with the quality of the metro.
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Other cities are looking at DC and saying "Why spend any money, we'll let UBER and the rest of the self driving cars solve the problem".

Unless of course they dont....

Or dont for 20 years....
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ya, and other cities are looking at DC and saying "Why spend any money, we'll let UBER and the rest of the self driving cars solve the problem".

Unless of course they dont....

Or dont for 20 years....
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Uber is great for moving around in the city. It doesn’t solve the problem of a massive amount of people coming into amd leaving the city on a daily basis. It doesn’t solve the issue of people travelling across the city. The numbers have dropped because a quick uber is more convient than going down to a metro stop and waiting on a train. Uber doest solve the issue of moving milions of people around an urban area. It just provides a convient alternative for short trips.
 
iliveonramen said:
Uber is great for moving around in the city. It doesn’t solve the problem of a massive amount of people coming into amd leaving the city on a daily basis. It doesn’t solve the issue of people travelling across the city. The numbers have dropped because a quick uber is more convient than going down to a metro stop and waiting on a train. Uber doest solve the issue of moving milions of people around an urban area. It just provides a convient alternative for short trips.
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You are likely correct however whenever our leaders get within sniffing distance of an excuse to do nothing you should know what happens....

EDIT: you will want to take a look at this:
Why Fewer People Take Public Transit (Hint: It's Not Just Uber)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You are likely correct however whenever our leaders get within sniffing distance of an excuse to do nothing you should know what happens....
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Pretty much, the era of doing the difficult thing is over. Claim Uber solves our problem and move in is exactly what I see a politician saying. “Innovation has solved our public trasportation problems”. I bet the politician would get a large donation from Uber as well.
 
iliveonramen said:
Pretty much, the era of doing the difficult thing is over. Claim Uber solves our problem and move in is exactly what I see a politician saying. “Innovation has solved our public trasportation problems”. I bet the politician would get a large donation from Uber as well.
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Make sure you look at my edit link on post #66...I have made no conclusions but I do remember why the Streetcars/interurbans got killed off.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Make sure you look at my edit link on post #66...I have made no conclusions but I do remember why the Streetcars/interurbans got killed off.
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I’ve read the link. Ive never been to LA and have only taken business trips to N Cali a few times. I couldn’t speak to S California. DC and NY though? My experience wouldn’t point to higher car ownership. Heck, for those in the city completing getting rid of a car is popular and for those outside the cities taking a train into the city is still the best way to travel.
 
iliveonramen said:
I’ve read the link. Ive never been to LA and have only taken business trips to N Cali a few times. I couldn’t speak to S California. DC and NY though? My experience wouldn’t point to higher car ownership. Heck, for those in the city completing getting rid of a car is popular and for those outside the cities taking a train into the city is still the best way to travel.
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I admit I have not lived in NYC in 30 years (long before uber) but my recollection was the subway was great in Manhattan but sucked the farther away you got from there. It was slow and ran infrequently. If they put more money into the boroughs to have more express lines it would be great for the working man. But Manhattan gets everything
 
iliveonramen said:
I’ve read the link. Ive never been to LA and have only taken business trips to N Cali a few times. I couldn’t speak to S California. DC and NY though? My experience wouldn’t point to higher car ownership. Heck, for those in the city completing getting rid of a car is popular and for those outside the cities taking a train into the city is still the best way to travel.
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Ya but people seem to still like cars, and we have been promised what that when we get self driving cars and share through such an outfits as UBER then our car use costs will be something on the order of 10% of what they are now, through efficiencies.....see this is why cities are refusing to invest in mass transit often times. Then there is the whole matter of why bus ridership rates are collapsing most everywhere which so far as I know no one has figured out.

I am and always have been a big transit guy, a railfan infact who for fun used to go into Chicago and ride the CTA all day, stopping for tourism and railfaining...But I gotta say.....the future is cloudy.

In part because America is falling apart, the social glue is almost non existent now, trust is vanishing, we actively avoid interaction with people constantly now
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Ya but people seem to still like cars, and we have been promised what that when we get self driving cars and share through such an outfits as UBER then our car use costs will be something on the order of 10% of what they are now, through efficiencies.....see this is why cities are refusing to invest in mass transit often times. Then there is the whole matter of why bus ridership rates are collapsing most everywhere which so far as I know no one has figured out.

I am and always have been a big transit guy, a railfan infact who for fun used to go into Chicago and ride the CTA all day, stopping for tourism and railfaining...But I gotta say.....the future is cloudy.

In part because America is falling apart, the social glue is almost non existent now, trust is vanishing, we actively avoid interaction with people constantly now
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Have you rode on a bus? I took a bus to DC from NE PA. Cost $100 and took all day. Plus the AC did not work on the bus. I can drive there in 4-1/2 hours for $30 and I don't have to rent a car. Flying is even worse. Unless you got weeks to plan it out. By the time I got a flight to DC I could drive their and work for a couple of days and drive back for half the cost. Our mass transit in this country is 50 to 100 years out of date. Plus we have more important things like the witch hunt to worry about.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Have you rode on a bus? I took a bus to DC from NE PA. Cost $100 and took all day. Plus the AC did not work on the bus. I can drive there in 4-1/2 hours for $30 and I don't have to rent a car. Flying is even worse. Unless you got weeks to plan it out. By the time I got a flight to DC I could drive their and work for a couple of days and drive back for half the cost. Our mass transit in this country is 50 to 100 years out of date. Plus we have more important things like the witch hunt to worry about.
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City buses...all over America people are not riding city buses like they used to and no one so far as I know has figured out why...... been going on for several years now, at first this change got ignored but now some of us want to know what is going on....this is likely a big deal what ever it is.
 
JMR said:
Your description of this project is utter horse****. Even the NY Post, enemy of Cuomo casts it in a better light.

https://nypost.com/2018/07/23/cuomo-claims-federal-funds-covered-30m-tunnel-retiling-project/

A week for Trump at his own home.. Mar Lago.. is 30 million dollars to the taxpayers to protect his sorry ass. And he goes there a lot...unlike Obama who hardly ever took a vacation.
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So sad, Andy is no longer part of the Kennedy clan, he's lost that charm and can't hide the corruption.

Nah, I still won't waste time reading the NY Post. The Page Six gossip isn't that enticing.

Federal funds, state funds, city funds, it is the people's money not Andy boy's. Put that in your pistol pocket and whistle Dixie.
 
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