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NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

prometeus said:
:lamo:lamo:lamo seriously?
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uhh, yeah really. if you think there is no corruption in DC and the corps of lobbyists that work there you are very naive.

if you don't think this causes problems in getting things done for the benefit of our citizens or using our tax dollars improperly, then I don't know what to tell you. its the main problem with the federal government over the last 20-30-40 years.
 
Hypothetical said:
uhh, yeah really. if you think there is no corruption in DC and the corps of lobbyists that work there you are very naive.
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Oh I know there is corruption, lots of it. I just find it hilarious that you voted for Trump to eliminate any of it. He has brought more if it that all the previous Presidents in recent times, combined.
 
prometeus said:
Oh I know there is corruption, lots of it. I just find it hilarious that you voted for Trump to eliminate any of it. He has brought more if it that all the previous Presidents in recent times, combined.
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I wouldn't say that. he brought a lot of people who forgot to dot their I's and cross their T's and got called for it. with the exception of the tax evaders and lobbyists, who we need to look more into on all sides. DO they get away with this crap all the time? we need to know.

now Trump may not investigate this further, btu maybe the next independent will. You laugh because I voted for Trump for this, well you can't vote for the snake to bite the snake now can you? so maybe you have to vote for the attack dog, who might kill the snake instead of you.
 
apdst said:
And if he was working for Clinton, like Tony Podesta who committed the same crimes as Manafort, you wouldn't even care.
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Why are you OK with career white collar criminals profiteering like this?
 
Hypothetical said:
bzzzzt .. I'm goiong to go with, "it is a huge ****ing problem to the extent we can't imagine how bad corruption is in washington" for $10000000 alex.

its the MAIN reason I voted for Trump, because we NEED outsiders who WANT to get things done in there to shake up the SWAMP.

you guys think you have ahold of the head of the snake in Trump and you don't realize you're merely holding the ears of the rabbit the snake is trying to eat.
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Trump IS the swamp, are you daft? He's lock step with the establishment. Just because he talks in a way you like doesn't mean ****.
 
Obscurity said:
Trump IS the swamp, are you daft? He's lock step with the establishment. Just because he talks in a way you like doesn't mean ****.
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no, Trump is not /was not a career politician in Washington DC before he became president. You might be able to make a case that he is corrupt (not so much in my opinion) but he is not the SWAMP.

and no I am not daft, thanks.
 
Chomsky said:
Actually I'd like to know what going-on in their heads, as well. This whole MAGA thing seems off, to me.
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This kind of thing, in my view, has been in American politics in the past. There have been politicians that seek support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument. Trump can pull a visceral response out of some people. He’s tapping into what some people already believe and want—not by rational argument, but by emotional reaction.
 
MovingPictures said:
Most of it I don't think will run into double jeopardy, in particular the charges of mortgage fraud and falsifying of state documents, which can easily carry 5-10 years.

What most people worried about a pardon are missing is this: Manafort's word doesn't matter any more to prosecutors. So, he can't damage Trump unless he has physical evidence of a crime. That means Trump is free to let him stay in jail and count the days, and so don't be surprised if he does that.

Remember, impeachment is 65% political, and pardoning Manafort would hurt Trump's political standing.
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The feds decided long ago that they could charge someone in federal court for the same crime they had already been convicted of in a state court.

They didn't charge them with the federal offense so it isn't double jeopardy. Different courts, same criminal act.
 
Obscurity said:
Why are you OK with career white collar criminals profiteering like this?
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Why are you ok with the judicial branch targeting citizens of the republic for political reasons?
 
Hypothetical said:
no, Trump is not /was not a career politician in Washington DC before he became president. You might be able to make a case that he is corrupt (not so much in my opinion) but he is not the SWAMP.

and no I am not daft, thanks.
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Yes, Trump is not “the swamp”. But he promised to “drain the swamp”. Ironically, he is draining the swamp indirectly—Manafort and Stone have been swamp creatures for decades. Indeed, Manafort is arguably one of the creators of “the swamp”.
 
I'm appalled by New York's politicized prosecution of Manafort, for heavens sake -mortgage fraud!? I'm sure there are other ancillary charges and that all of this is wrongful and should be prosecuted, but I also think there's a lot more of this going on than gets prosecuted. Mortgage fraud is a crime in which the intent is to materially misrepresent or omit information on a mortgage loan application in order to obtain a loan or to obtain a larger loan than could have been obtained had the lender or borrower known the truth. Now then, how likely is it that when applying for a mortgage the borrower will try to enhance the value of his property? I'd expect this would be natural, fix it up, clean out the yard, repair anything obvious, what about the defects that can't easily be corrected, could you park the car close to the wall in the garage that has a crack so the appraiser doesn't notice? "Materially misrepresent" refers to actual conduct, a statement or some writing from Manafort with specific falsity must be shown, I suppose they've got something and that it probably has something to do with "encumbrances" (loans, liens, other mortgages, the order of priority for other creditors...) that sort of thing. Some of this stuff is rather complicated, not really obvious, specialized practice among lawyers.

I don't know about the facts or allegations from this New York indictment, I presume it was adequate enough to satisfy the court, and likely involved some substantial sum, but my impression is that everyone trying to get a mortgage is likely to make every effort to enhance the value of the property being mortgaged, I doubt everyone goes so far as to materially misrepresent facts in order to defraud, but how precisely can one tell something is beyond what is permissible? If Manafort got a mortgage on his house he'd need to submit documents detailing his creditors so the lender could see if any had or could secure his debt with the property. Lenders are categorized and arranged in an order of priority, this is the sort of thing that goes on in bankruptcy proceedings (another field of highly specialized attorney practice). Would Manafort's guilt depend on evidence he identified some creditor's status incorrectly, in order to get a bigger loan? I'd expect this will require showing Manafort's intent to defraud, that he acted knowingly and intelligently with that aim.
 
Hypothetical said:
no, Trump is not /was not a career politician in Washington DC before he became president. You might be able to make a case that he is corrupt (not so much in my opinion) but he is not the SWAMP.

and no I am not daft, thanks.
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I disagree!

Trump was as much part of the swamp as any of the people of the "establishment" which includes not only career politicians, but also big business, Wall Street and lobbyists who act behind the scenes avoiding transparency to influence politics.
 
Hatuey said:
Given your deep knowledge of the investigation: When should they have filed so that it wouldn't seem political to you?



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
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2013, when the crimes were first discovered.
 
pamak said:
I disagree!

Trump was as much part of the swamp as any of the people of the "establishment" which includes not only career politicians, but also big business, Wall Street and lobbyists who act behind the scenes avoiding transparency to influence politics.
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disagree all you want. Trump is/was a NY realtor mainly, who was he lobbying other than building inspectors in NY and wherever his projects are going up? he certainly wasn't one of the big fish in DC Lobbytics... or even a small one for that matter.
 
Hypothetical said:
disagree all you want. Trump is/was a NY realtor mainly, who was he lobbying other than building inspectors in NY and wherever his projects are going up? he certainly wasn't one of the big fish in DC Lobbytics... or even a small one for that matter.
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His business was not confined in NY and the building inspectors was the least of the concerns. The biggest issue is convincing people to approve proposed projects. And let's not mention things like the Trump University ...
 
apdst said:
2013, when the crimes were first discovered.
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80% of the top positions held mostly by Democrats then, are held by Democrats now. Are you saying these exact same Democrats have hatched a plot to ignore Trump and Manafort's crimes until it became beneficial to prosecute them? Lol, that they waited until after he won the election?

Proof? None? No wonder vesper didn't respond.

Lol, better start the goofing now, apdst.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 
pamak said:
His business was not confined in NY and the building inspectors was the least of the concerns. The biggest issue is convincing people to approve proposed projects. And let's not mention things like the Trump University ...
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because yeah he had to lobby congress to get special attention in order to endorse a university with his name?

dude , companies and people that lobby congress negatively are people trying to skirt some SERIOUS national security and negative public vote items, trying to get things through around your ability to stop them with your vote... or use YOUR money to fund their failure, etc.. on a large scale. Trump university is nothing in comparison.
 
prometeus said:
But you are appalled. No doubt that is a natural conservative reaction of a Trump supporter.
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Probably, but it is based on what has preceded it, and on the fact all I've seen reported is that this indictment is based on "mortgage fraud" If you knew what I do about this, you'd be dubious too.
 
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