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Now playing at the Supreme Court: How to preserve white power in four easy steps

ttwtt78640 said:
They may well understand that judges have "made law" in the past and wish for that behavior to continue.
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which should have been ruled as violation of separation of powers.
 
j brown's body said:
Link

This is a breathtakingly cynical power grab on the part of the executive and judicial branches. Trump wants to undercount people in blue states because most people don't support him, so they devise a scheme to undercount the census by adding a question about citizenship.

The conservatives on the Supreme Court seem willing to support this by saying that it is needed to uphold the Voting Rights Act, a law whose enforcement provisions they gutted several years ago.

I have come to believe that all of the GOP's efforts to undermine democracy, to the degree that they accept interference from a foreign adversary in our electoral process because they believe that the political power must stay in the hands of white, male, straight, Christians despite their shrinking population and popularity.
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Perhaps you ought take a tums for that "belly feeling" of partisanship rage, then post something thoughtful? How does one "undercount" a census to Trump's advantage by asking a person if they are a citizen or legally resident alien, vs being an illegal?

A legal person is not going to tell someone they are illegal, but an illegal person might claim they are actually legal. The only "undercount" bias is in that the question may UNDERESTIMATE the number of illegals and overstate the number of legals in each district. That helps Trump how?

So then what are you afraid of? That illegals may be mostly honest and NOT pretend to be citizens or legal residents?

Or do you considered self-imported illegal squatters a part of American persons needing represented in the American people's Congress, and that if their numbers are know they won't be?
 
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Napoleon said:
And you trust this administration not to do that? ICE routinely violates the law and the Constitution and no one is held accountable for it.
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Is this post suggesting ICE, or other federal authorities get their information from the 2010 census to make arrests? Also, I sure would like some proof that that the US, Immigration and Customs agency “routinely violates the law and Constitution”

Note to poster: the 2020 census results will not be in play with this administration even if re-elected. Curious, who do you hold accountable for the repeat horrific crimes in sanctuary cities by criminals that have been deported multiple times but find sanctuary from law enforcement as a policy?
 
slick said:
Too bad the constitution didn't add a common sense amendment. I guess our forefathers didn't think the country would get this dysfunctional.
Your position is that the invading British army during the years of the War of 1812 ought to have been counted in the census, these illegals
the Democrats want to be counted are invaders too. But we are here.
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Nope - we only count people who are residents here.
 
woodsman said:
The original frame of the census was just a head count but it evolved, see below.

“It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people. On numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287. In 1901, a District Court said the Constitution's census clause (Art. 1, Sec. 2, Clause 3) is not limited to a headcount of the population and "does not prohibit the gathering of other statistics, if 'necessary and proper,' for the intelligent exercise of other powers enumerated in the constitution, and in such case there could be no objection to acquiring this information through the same machinery by which the population is enumerated." United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).”

Census in the Constitution

Fast forward to today 2019, we have tens of millions of people living in this country that reside here illegally. I’m guessing these post suggest we give them representation and tax dollars just because they managed to avoid the legal immigration system and protocols. Curious, if one takes that opinion what is the point of boarders or an immigration system?
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Legal or illegal - the Constitution does not discriminate. It simply orders that they be counted.
 
haymarket said:
This is merely part of the radical rights strategy to change the rules to allow them to win elections and hold power. Without that, they are doomed and they know it so suppressing the vote and census count is the only other option that works for them.

We are slowly losing America to the forces of right wing evil.
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Not so. You are slowly losing America to the forces of left wing idiocy. Well, not losing, actually: giving it away.
 
haymarket said:
The question has as its goal the discouraging through fear the counting of the entire population. As such, it is clearly unconstitutional.
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Why is there any fear in answering a citizenship question? Would it be that the subject is here illegally? Why should illegal aliens be counted for representation purposes, or funding. Do they have some right to either of those?
 
haymarket said:
Legal or illegal - the Constitution does not discriminate. It simply orders that they be counted.
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OK, but pointed out the census can ask pertinent questions, why the problem with this one?
 
Napoleon said:
You do know that there are millions of lawful permanent residents in this country who are not citizens don’t you?
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Yes, and they will be dutifully counted. Is there a problem with that?
 
Then your argument should be with the education of the ICE officers, not the census.
 
Napoleon said:
And you trust this administration not to do that? ICE routinely violates the law and the Constitution and no one is held accountable for it.
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Got ANY indictments to go with that broad brush swipe?
 
woodsman said:
Is this post suggesting ICE, or other federal authorities get their information from the 2010 census to make arrests? Also, I sure would like some proof that that the US, Immigration and Customs agency “routinely violates the law and Constitution”

Note to poster: the 2020 census results will not be in play with this administration even if re-elected. Curious, who do you hold accountable for the repeat horrific crimes in sanctuary cities by criminals that have been deported multiple times but find sanctuary from law enforcement as a policy?
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Well, to give you a general idea of just how far ICE has gone off the rails - they’ve kidnapped and illegally detained nearly 1,500 American citizens since 2012. In the last two years, they’ve issued over 400 detainer requests for American citizens in Miami-Dade county alone. And heaven help you if they actually get their hands on you. They snatched Davino Watson and illegally imprisoned him for three years! Even worse, an appeals court overturned his compensation order because ICE illegally detained him so long that the statute of limitations expired.

So yes, I do believe this agency is dangerous and has no regard for the law or the Constitution. I would not be surprised if they illegally acquired and used census data and just added such an act to the pile of criminal activity they are never held accountable for.
 
j brown's body said:
Link

This is a breathtakingly cynical power grab on the part of the executive and judicial branches. Trump wants to undercount people in blue states because most people don't support him, so they devise a scheme to undercount the census by adding a question about citizenship.

The conservatives on the Supreme Court seem willing to support this by saying that it is needed to uphold the Voting Rights Act, a law whose enforcement provisions they gutted several years ago.

I have come to believe that all of the GOP's efforts to undermine democracy, to the degree that they accept interference from a foreign adversary in our electoral process because they believe that the political power must stay in the hands of white, male, straight, Christians despite their shrinking population and popularity.
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*yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn* Now explain how a legal status has anything to do with being white or a race at all.
 
smallvoice said:
Why is there any fear in answering a citizenship question? Would it be that the subject is here illegally? Why should illegal aliens be counted for representation purposes, or funding. Do they have some right to either of those?
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Because the question is intended... it is meant to ... it is there for the expressed purpose .... it has as its goal ... it is aimed to ...... I don't know how many ways I can say it - not is tended to scare illegals from answering the census and thus result in an undercount of the population.

What about that is lost on you?

This is about politics pure and simple. Republicans feel they can gain from this question by having Democrats loose since the perception that illegals in big cities will bring the census count down in those areas and thus impact redistricting and representation.

And please do NOT insult either of us by pretending you don't know that because anybody with a political IQ over 100 can see it as clear as day.

And if you cannot admit that - there is no reason to continue talking to me or on this subject as its only participating in a big scam.
 
smallvoice said:
You left out "legal".
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You added a provision that the Constitution does not have as part of its order on the census.

And you just insulted my intelligence with that crap so cut it out as you know damn well what the Constitution say and why this is controversial.
 
smallvoice said:
See your post #4. You are welcome.
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I did review it. There is nothing in post 4 about me alleging there is a rule forbidding a citizenship question as you charged.

And while you are at it - please cut this crap. Its insulting and intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

You want to quote me - damn well do it. You want to play your games and tell me what you want me to have said so you tee up a ready made reply - forget it. That is not debate and its not honest.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I cease to see how adding a question about citizenship on a census is discriminatory. It's not like they have to answer it.
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It's more of an intimidation thing.
 
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