No Hitler, no WWII?

[swing_voter]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

 

[TypicalRussian]

no not a specific war between 39-45 but something else to that effect, history would be a LOT different

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Dont forget Asia, Japan was being murderous and invading country after country, heck if Japan did not attack Pearl Harbor who know when and if the US would have joined the war

 

[Phys251]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

I know you meant it as a serious question, but after reading your post I'm having Fargo flashbacks and I can't get that scene out of my mind. :lol:

 

[Helix]

my question is this :

No WWI = no WWII?

i like to think that this is correct, but i don't think that it is. i think that this horrible **** was going to happen one way or another, and that while there were exceptionally unlikely scenarios that might have prevented it, they weren't going to happen. what a ****ing awful time in human history. i hope that we can recover from it.

 

[Casper]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

Dissatisfaction and suffering were seething for years in Germany when Hitler took power, if he had not taken the opportunity someone else would have, the Nationalists and Communists were fighting in the streets. That said it is doubtful that a different leader would have been as quick to take over Europe, Russia and other countries they wanted. Then again there was Stalin, had there been no Hitler what would he have done, thinking there still could have been a different WWII.
Another way to look at it is when WWII was over and we knew the results of the Holocaust we said Never Again, yet we have repeated it across the globe several times since.
Mankind has a lot of growing up as a species before to learn to stop killing each other.

 

[Casper]

I know you meant it as a serious question, but after reading your post I'm having Fargo flashbacks and I can't get that scene out of my mind. :lol:

Hey now, I Love Fargo, one of the best films of all time, truly shows mankind in all his glory, you either laugh or cry, what more can you ask for.

 

[Jredbaron96]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

No.

Depends on when he dies though. If he dies while in power, but before war breaks out in 1939, then power is transferred to Goering. Goering's Third Reich would be a mess of hedonistic corruption and be a terrible place to live for many people, but Goering would not start WWII.

If it's before the Nazis seize power, then it's doubtful the Nazis would even get power. Hitler's oratory and leadership skills were essential to the Nazis rise to power, and without him it's highly unlikely the Nazis would be able to come out on top in the elections. At best they might form a coalition with the other right wing parties in the Reichstag. But that still doesn't result in WWII. Without Hitler, it just doesn't happen.

Now, this doesn't answer what happens to Imperial Japan in the Pacific.

 

[Oozlefinch]

WWII started long before Hitler moved into Poland.

We already had the Abyssinian War, and the Sino-Japanese War in addition to the Spanish Civil War. It simply was not recognized as a "World War" until Germany joined in as well.

 

[Fledermaus]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

Yes to the Pacific theater which would have been technically a "world war" as it involved the US the Dutch, the Brits, China, etc.

 

[AmNat]

If Hitler fell down the stairs and landed in a wood chipper and died, would WWII have happened?

Yes though it would've been completely different.

Stalin would've invaded Europe at some point (there's considerable evidence that he was only a few weeks away from doing so when Barbarossa started). It's possible that without Hitler Britain would've stayed neutral and the Soviet Union could've been defeated. It's also possible that with Europe disunified the Soviets would've taken the entire continent.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Yes though it would've been completely different.

Stalin would've invaded Europe at some point (there's considerable evidence that he was only a few weeks away from doing so when Barbarossa started).

No, there isn't. This is a claim made by revisionists and hacks like Suvorov, but it's nonsense.

The Red Army in the summer of 1941 was not in any shape to start a war, nor were there even any plans created to invade Germany and the territories under Nazi control.

 

[Bum]

No, there isn't. This is a claim made by revisionists and hacks like Suvorov, but it's nonsense.

The Red Army in the summer of 1941 was not in any shape to start a war, nor were there even any plans created to invade Germany and the territories under Nazi control.

Stalins purge of its Senior Military leaders between 1936-1938 had effectively gutted its Competent and Professional officer Corps.....some were left, but not enough to plan or undertake an invasion of that magnitude.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Yes though it would've been completely different.

Stalin would've invaded Europe at some point (there's considerable evidence that he was only a few weeks away from doing so when Barbarossa started). It's possible that without Hitler Britain would've stayed neutral and the Soviet Union could've been defeated. It's also possible that with Europe disunified the Soviets would've taken the entire continent.

A common claim by Nazi Fanbois, but without a shred of proof. In fact, if this had been the case, how in the hell did the Germans advance so far into the Soviet Union, so fast?

If they were really preparing to invade, then by the time the Germans finished passing through Soviet Occupied Poland, they would have been met at the border with massive armies. And we all know that was not the case at all. And the Soviet Archives have been open for almost 30 years. Listing everything from who their spies were in the US and UK, to what was done with Hitler's body. Yet nobody has found any evidence of any such invasion being prepared.

 

[AmNat]

No, there isn't. This is a claim made by revisionists and hacks like Suvorov, but it's nonsense.

The Red Army in the summer of 1941 was not in any shape to start a war, nor were there even any plans created to invade Germany and the territories under Nazi control.

That's why they weren't defensively deployed and had maps of German-controlled territory. Because they had no plans to invade.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Stalins purge of its Senior Military leaders between 1936-1938 had effectively gutted its Competent and Professional officer Corps.....some were left, but not enough to plan or undertake an invasion of that magnitude.

Eh, the purge certainly didn't help matters, but what gutted the Red Army in 1940-1941 was the rapid expansion of the size of the force.

Before WW2 broke out in Europe the Red Army was about 1.3 million men, sizeable, but not that large considering it was for the largest nation on earth.

It was the rapid defeat of Poland and France (which Stalin thought had the best Army in the world) that led the Soviets to rapidly expand the size of the Red Army, boosting it's size from 1.3 million men to 5 million in less than two years. The result was entire formations of the Red Army were made up of peasants with the bare minimum of training and led by officers who had just graduated from their respective schools, despite holding positions such as regimental or even division commander.

The Soviet logistical system simply couldn't keep up and collapsed entirely. On the eve of the invasion the front line strength of the Red Army was supposed to be nearly 13,000 AFVs, but anywhere from a third to half of those vehicles were inoperative due to lack of spare parts or qualified personnel. Many of the front line units had no additional supplies, for example the 7th Tank Division of the 6th Mechanized Corps had no armor piercing ammunition, or the 8th Mechanized Corps had tank drivers who only had 5 hours of training experience on their T-34s and KV tanks.

 

[AmNat]

A common claim by Nazi Fanbois, but without a shred of proof. In fact, if this had been the case, how in the hell did the Germans advance so far into the Soviet Union, so fast?

If they were really preparing to invade, then by the time the Germans finished passing through Soviet Occupied Poland, they would have been met at the border with massive armies. And we all know that was not the case at all. And the Soviet Archives have been open for almost 30 years. Listing everything from who their spies were in the US and UK, to what was done with Hitler's body. Yet nobody has found any evidence of any such invasion being prepared.

The Red Army had been vastly expanded and was concentrated on the border with Europe. The Germans beat them easily (at first) because they had no defensive plans. Was Stalin just clueless, or did he have a reason for not expecting an invasion?

 

[Jredbaron96]

That's why they weren't defensively deployed and had maps of German-controlled territory. Because they had no plans to invade.

You are suggesting the Soviets planned to invade the Germans while numerically inferior by a scale of nearly 2:1, despite there being no evidence of any kind of invasion plan ever found.

Also, by what metric are you saying the Soviet weren't deployed defensively? Then why the major concentration of forces far behind the border in Ukraine, if for any other reason than to prevent a German drive towards Kiev?

 

[Oozlefinch]

The Red Army had been vastly expanded and was concentrated on the border with Europe. The Germans beat them easily (at first) because they had no defensive plans. Was Stalin just clueless, or did he have a reason for not expecting an invasion?

Evidence of this planned invasion?

You are aware of course that this is all a lie, right? A book written by Soviet Defector Victor Suvorov, a book that has been discredited by almost all historians both in side and outside of Russia.

A book that is really only endorsed and supported by the Hitler Fanbois.

*looks closer for tattoos of boots or crossed hammers*

 

[longview]

If anyone has read Isaac Asimov's foundation series, the right person, at the right time, can greatly disrupt
how things would normally progress. I think Hitler was such a person.
The combination of arrogance, self righteousness, and paranoia, caused a catalytic reaction, like hydrogen peroxide and platinum.
I think there would have still been small wars, but nothing like the magnitude of WWII.

 

[Oozlefinch]

If anyone has read Isaac Asimov's foundation series, the right person, at the right time, can greatly disrupt
how things would normally progress. I think Hitler was such a person.
The combination of arrogance, self righteousness, and paranoia, caused a catalytic reaction, like hydrogen peroxide and platinum.
I think there would have still been small wars, but nothing like the magnitude of WWII.

But there was already massive fighting going on in Europe, Africa, and Asia.

And if Germany had not risen as a power in the region, another nation would have. The Soviets were already trying to expand their grip, as was seen in their expansion into Finland and their happily jumping into Poland.

I have absolutely no doubt that even without Der Wall Painter, somebody would have provided the "Third Axis" to get things rolling. Either another powerful and charismatic leader, or one of the other fanatics that was starting to run rampant in Europe. And many tend to forget that when Germany invaded, France was already on the verge of collapse. Inflation and unemployment was out of control, and the Radical-Socialists and French Communist Party were plunging the nation into chaos.

Even if Germany had not existed, France would have imploded within 5 years. And odds are that would have resulted in another conflict like the Spanish Civil War.

 

[Jredbaron96]

And if Germany had not risen as a power in the region, another nation would have.

Who? All the other right wing dictators of Europe, Piłsudski, Mussolini, nor Franco shared the desire for expansionism like Hitler. Mussolini's venture into East Africa hardly compares to Hitler's grab of Poland and Czechoslovakia.

None of them shared the combination of Hitler's drive and insane paranoia.

The Soviets were already trying to expand their grip, as was seen in their expansion into Finland and their happily jumping into Poland.

The Soviets very much tried to avoid conflicts with peer opponents. Direct conflict with any of Europe's premier powers would not have been in the USSR's interest.

Even if Germany had not existed, France would have imploded within 5 years. And odds are that would have resulted in another conflict like the Spanish Civil War.

The view that the Third Republic was on terminal decline has been thoroughly discounted by modern historians. While France in the 1920s and 30s was not an icon of stability, it's deepest woes can be directly traced to the resurgence of Hitler's Germany. Absent those, the idea that France will inevitably collapse into civil war is fantasy.

 

[maxparrish]

If anyone has read Isaac Asimov's foundation series, the right person, at the right time, can greatly disrupt
how things would normally progress. I think Hitler was such a person.
The combination of arrogance, self righteousness, and paranoia, caused a catalytic reaction, like hydrogen peroxide and platinum.
I think there would have still been small wars, but nothing like the magnitude of WWII.

I agree. Excluding the war with Japan I doubt Germany would have started a war but for Hitler's rise to power. The Nazi party had plenty of loons, but none with the same degree of recklessness and charisma among its leaders as Hitler (and Hitler's chosen successor, Hess, obviously didn't have the backbone to start anything).

Hitler's single minded need to exterminate all Jews and create "living room" for a master race was pitiless and relentless. Unless their was some other person in the Nazi hierarchy that has gone unrecognized as a proto Hitler in both intent AND ability I don't see it.

In any alternative history their might have been some other loon, someone willing to intimidate the allies into returning lost German territory but without Hitler there would have been no invasion of Czechoslovakia let alone Poland.

And as far as Japan is concerned, would they have dared start a war with the US if they were sure that they had no axis to back stop them? With GB, the Netherlands, France, and the US fully committed to just one war, it should have been clear to them that it would have been a disaster.

Can you imagine if 100 percent of the US and GB industrial war capacity had been directed against the Japanese the day after pearl harbor?

 

[longview]

I agree. Excluding the war with Japan I doubt Germany would have started a war but for Hitler's rise to power. The Nazi party had plenty of loons, but none with the same degree of recklessness and charisma among its leaders as Hitler (and Hitler's chosen successor, Hess, obviously didn't have the backbone to start anything).

Hitler's single minded need to exterminate all Jews and create "living room" for a master race was pitiless and relentless. Unless their was some other person in the Nazi hierarchy that has gone unrecognized as a proto Hitler in both intent AND ability I don't see it.

In any alternative history their might have been some other loon, someone willing to intimidate the allies into returning lost German territory but without Hitler there would have been no invasion of Czechoslovakia let alone Poland.

And as far as Japan is concerned, would they have dared start a war with the US if they were sure that they had no axis to back stop them? With GB, the Netherlands, France, and the US fully committed to just one war, it should have been clear to them that it would have been a disaster.

Can you imagine if 100 percent of the US and GB industrial war capacity had been directed against the Japanese the day after pearl harbor?

I was thinking about Japan, we stopped selling them oil, and later blocked their other sources.
It is unclear if ether thing would have happened if war in Europe was not looming.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I was thinking about Japan, we stopped selling them oil, and later blocked their other sources.
It is unclear if ether thing would have happened if war in Europe was not looming.

Actually, there were no other sources to block.

The US was the largest oil exporting nation on the planet, and everybody else was so busy fighting in Europe there was nobody to sell them oil.

Like with steel, the US did not create a Blockade, they did nothing to stop any nation from trading with Japan. They simply refused to do so themselves.