Newt right or wrong on his immigration stance in the last debate

[Dittohead not!]

It makes perfect sense to allow people who have assimilated into our society over the years and who have become productive citizens to stay.

However:

The last time we tried amnesty, the flood of immigrants became a deluge.

So, how do we allow those we want to stay without attracting a huge new group?

 

[MrMindSpeaker]

It makes perfect sense to allow people who have assimilated into our society over the years and who have become productive citizens to stay.

However:

The last time we tried amnesty, the flood of immigrants became a deluge.

So, how do we allow those we want to stay without attracting a huge new group?

by making them jump through hoops basically and by letting the world know that it will only be for current illegal aliens. all will be deported and prosecuted from now on.
the hardest part will be enforcing the law, because it has become apparent that the federal government has no plans on doing it them selfs or letting the states do it for them!

 

[jamesrage]

It makes perfect sense to allow people who have assimilated into our society over the years and who have become productive citizens to stay.

However:

The last time we tried amnesty, the flood of immigrants became a deluge.

So, how do we allow those we want to stay without attracting a huge new group?

You can't. Because when you already given amnesty before and offer it again it stops being a one time only deal.

Of course 1986 was not the only amnesty.
The Absurd Report » Ted Kennedy’s seven amnesties

 

[jamesrage]

by making them jump through hoops basically and by letting the world know that it will only be for current illegal aliens.all will be deported and prosecuted from now on.

I think they did that in 1986.That is why we went from having 3 million illegal to 12-20 million illegals.

I think that at the time they only planned for 1.5 or 1.7 million illegals to file but ended up with 3 million.

The Legacy of the IRCA Amnesty - San Francisco Immigration | Examiner.com

 

[AdamT]

So, how do we allow those we want to stay without attracting a huge new group?

Not a big risk right now as the economy has resulted in negative immigration. The solution is not complicated. Give guest worker status to those who are productive members of society. Give them a non-trivial path to citizenship, including English proficiency and payment of back taxes. Establish realistic permanent levels of immigrant labor and crack down on employers who don't take reasonable measures to avoid hiring illegals.

 

[AdamT]

When Oklahoma first enacted its HB1804 aka the tax payer protection act many pro-illegal scum in the media ran boo hoo we need illegals stories, famers looking for workers, kids of leaving schools because their parents packed their **** up and left and businesses, tough new ID and driver licenses requirements, and so on. So the pro-illegal scum in the media in Alabama are doing the same thing. Its mostly propaganda bull **** on the part of the pro-illegals.They are basically crack dealers whining that cops are making it hard for them to earn a living when they can pursue legal routes to earn a living.

Actually it's the busienss people in Alabama who are complaining, because the bill is killing them. The latest incident really brings it into focus.

"On Nov. 16, a European businessman paying a visit to his company’s manufacturing plant near Tuscaloosa, Alabama, was pulled over for driving a rental car without a tag.

The police officer asked the man for his license, but the only paperwork he had with him was a German I.D. card. Anywhere else in the nation, the cop might have issued the man a citation. Not in Alabama, where a strict new law requires police to look into the immigration status of people detained for routine traffic violations. Because the man couldn’t prove he had the right to be in the U.S., he was arrested and hauled off to the police station.

The businessman turned out to be an executive with Mercedes-Benz, one of Alabama’s prized manufacturers, Bloomberg Businessweek reports in its Nov. 28 issue. The Mercedes plant employs 3,400 people, and the company’s much-heralded decision in 1993 to build cars in the state encouraged Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota to follow.

Mercedes has downplayed the incident, calling it “unfortunate” and refusing further comment. Yet word of the arrest spread quickly through the state, amplifying a growing sentiment among many politicians, business owners and citizens that the immigration law, intended to drive off undocumented workers and free up jobs for the unemployed, is too strict and damages Alabama’s reputation as a place to do business."

Alabama Considers Revision of Immigration Law Ensnaring Mercedes Executive - Bloomberg

What the article didn't mention is that Mercedes has created over 40,000 jobs in the state since they made it its US manufacturing hub in the early 90s. At the time they were quite hesitant to choose Alabama because of German sensitivity to racial issues and Alabama's less than stellar history. It is probably no coincidence that the confederate flag was taken down from the state capital the year that Mercedes started doing business there.

 

[battleax86]

Actually it's the busienss people in Alabama who are complaining, because the bill is killing them. The latest incident really brings it into focus.

"On Nov. 16, a European businessman paying a visit to his company’s manufacturing plant near Tuscaloosa, Alabama, was pulled over for driving a rental car without a tag.

The police officer asked the man for his license, but the only paperwork he had with him was a German I.D. card. Anywhere else in the nation, the cop might have issued the man a citation. Not in Alabama, where a strict new law requires police to look into the immigration status of people detained for routine traffic violations. Because the man couldn’t prove he had the right to be in the U.S., he was arrested and hauled off to the police station.

The businessman turned out to be an executive with Mercedes-Benz, one of Alabama’s prized manufacturers, Bloomberg Businessweek reports in its Nov. 28 issue. The Mercedes plant employs 3,400 people, and the company’s much-heralded decision in 1993 to build cars in the state encouraged Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota to follow.

Mercedes has downplayed the incident, calling it “unfortunate” and refusing further comment. Yet word of the arrest spread quickly through the state, amplifying a growing sentiment among many politicians, business owners and citizens that the immigration law, intended to drive off undocumented workers and free up jobs for the unemployed, is too strict and damages Alabama’s reputation as a place to do business."

Alabama Considers Revision of Immigration Law Ensnaring Mercedes Executive - Bloomberg

What the article didn't mention is that Mercedes has created over 40,000 jobs in the state since they made it its US manufacturing hub in the early 90s. At the time they were quite hesitant to choose Alabama because of German sensitivity to racial issues and Alabama's less than stellar history. It is probably no coincidence that the confederate flag was taken down from the state capital the year that Mercedes started doing business there.

Lesson learned: if you're a foreigner here on business, keep your papers on you.

 

[LuckyDan]

He was wrong, but I'll still take him over BO. At least Newt can articulate a wrong-ass opinion.

Deporting illegals doesn't mean breaking up families. It means if you're a member of an illegal family, you go home, too.

 

[Jetboogieman]

He was wrong, but I'll still take him over BO. At least Newt can articulate a wrong-ass opinion.

Deporting illegals doesn't mean breaking up families. It means if you're a member of an illegal family, you go home, too.

Even if that member is a citizen as well?

How would you get past the constitutionality of such a deportation?

 

[LuckyDan]

Even if that member is a citizen as well?

How would you get past the constitutionality of such a deportation?

Let me amend that. If you are the minor of illegal parents, you go with your parents. If you are an adult, born here, you stay.

Nothing says that anchor babys MUST stay here. Would you leave your kid behind? If so, you are giving up your rights of parenthood. Screw you.

 

[Dittohead not!]

by making them jump through hoops basically and by letting the world know that it will only be for current illegal aliens. all will be deported and prosecuted from now on.
the hardest part will be enforcing the law, because it has become apparent that the federal government has no plans on doing it them selfs or letting the states do it for them!

umm.. maybe.

Further, if they had to go back to their home country and apply from there, then it might work. Otherwise, we're going to have a deluge of illegals claiming to have been here already, just like we did back in '86.

And, if they've been here for years, it is reasonable to expect that they have learned to speak English, so the application process should be in English for those who are claiming to have assimilated into our country.

 

[jamesrage]

Actually it's the busienss people in Alabama who are complaining, because the bill is killing them. The latest incident really brings it into focus.

"On Nov. 16, a European businessman paying a visit to his company’s manufacturing plant near Tuscaloosa, Alabama, was pulled over for driving a rental car without a tag.

The police officer asked the man for his license, but the only paperwork he had with him was a German I.D. card. Anywhere else in the nation, the cop might have issued the man a citation. Not in Alabama, where a strict new law requires police to look into the immigration status of people detained for routine traffic violations. Because the man couldn’t prove he had the right to be in the U.S., he was arrested and hauled off to the police station.

The businessman turned out to be an executive with Mercedes-Benz, one of Alabama’s prized manufacturers, Bloomberg Businessweek reports in its Nov. 28 issue. The Mercedes plant employs 3,400 people, and the company’s much-heralded decision in 1993 to build cars in the state encouraged Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota to follow.

Mercedes has downplayed the incident, calling it “unfortunate” and refusing further comment. Yet word of the arrest spread quickly through the state, amplifying a growing sentiment among many politicians, business owners and citizens that the immigration law, intended to drive off undocumented workers and free up jobs for the unemployed, is too strict and damages Alabama’s reputation as a place to do business."

Alabama Considers Revision of Immigration Law Ensnaring Mercedes Executive - Bloomberg

What the article didn't mention is that Mercedes has created over 40,000 jobs in the state since they made it its US manufacturing hub in the early 90s. At the time they were quite hesitant to choose Alabama because of German sensitivity to racial issues and Alabama's less than stellar history. It is probably no coincidence that the confederate flag was taken down from the state capital the year that Mercedes started doing business there.

Visa information for foreign students in the United States
Federal law does require foreign nationals to carry a valid passport with them at all times,

 

[AdamT]

Visa information for foreign students in the United States
Federal law does require foreign nationals to carry a valid passport with them at all times,

And that is relevant to Alabama's law how?

 

[jamesrage]

And that is relevant to Alabama's law how?

The fact he is a foreign national means that he should have already had his visas and other documents on him not just a German ID card. The fact he is a wealthy businessman is totally irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that rich foreign nationals should be exempt.

 

[AdamT]

The fact he is a foreign national means that he should have already had his visas and other documents on him not just a German ID card. The fact he is a wealthy businessman is totally irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that rich foreign nationals should be exempt.

The code section you cited applies to foreign exchange students, not business executives. Which is beside the point in any case. But for the Alabama law he would not have been arrested.

 

[jamesrage]

It said "foreign national", not 'just foreign nationals on student visas". A German citizen is a foreign national. As a foreign national he has already required by federal law to carry his documents on him.

 

[Dittohead not!]

It said "foreign national", not 'just foreign nationals on student visas". A German citizen is a foreign national. As a foreign national he has already required by federal law to carry his documents on him.

How do we know when someone not carrying papers is a foreign national?

Does everyone have to carry identification now?

Your papersss plesss...

 

[jamesrage]

How do we know when someone not carrying papers is a foreign national?

Does everyone have to carry identification now?

Your papersss plesss...

He is a foreign national and he was driving car.

 

[AdamT]

He is a foreign national and he was driving car.

And he would not have been arrested in any other state, because Alabama is the only state that requires this ridiculous result.

 

[Dittohead not!]

He is a foreign national and he was driving car.

OK, so how did the officer who stopped the car know he was a foreign national? Do they just stop cars at random asking for papers? Did he look foreign? What's the criterion for asking people for papers?

 

[rocket88]

OK, so how did the officer who stopped the car know he was a foreign national? Do they just stop cars at random asking for papers? Did he look foreign? What's the criterion for asking people for papers?

I wonder the same thing. Do I need to start carrying my birth certificate in my wallet? Just to prove that I'm an American in case I speed or run a red light?

 

[rocket88]

was newt right or wrong when he said in the cnn debate on 11/22/2011 that he couldnt see deporting someone that is here illegally if they been here for over 20 years, have kids and grand kids, pay their taxes, and go to church.

What went unsaid was that rounding up all the illegal immigrants and deporting them would be a logistical nightmare requiring very fast and unprecedented growth in the Federal Government.

 

[justabubba]

What went unsaid was that rounding up all the illegal immigrants and deporting them would be a logistical nightmare requiring very fast and unprecedented growth in the Federal Government.

no need to round up anyone
enforce existing laws
and prevent the issue of any public benefits or licensing to any undocumented alien
the lure of being in the USA will dissipate by those fundamental actions, causing the illegals to go elsewhere to reside

 

[jamesrage]

OK, so how did the officer who stopped the car know he was a foreign national? Do they just stop cars at random asking for papers? Did he look foreign? What's the criterion for asking people for papers?

See post 31

 

[jamesrage]

And he would not have been arrested in any other state, because Alabama is the only state that requires this ridiculous result.

He was driving a car without a tag and he only had a German ID, he might have been arrested in any other state. Seeing how he is supposed to have his VISA on him, it is not unreasonable for police to take him in when the only thing he produced was a German ID card.A German ID card proves you are a forign national but it most certainly doesn't prove you are here legally.