Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds

[prometeus]

All of that is subjective and your opinion...

No, that is simply fact. That you are unable or unwilling to admit it is also telling too.

While I fully understand your anger

You have no clue, being too busy defending Trump.

I think you'd make much more ground explaining your ideas

To Trump defenders? That would be like casting pearls before swine, and they are not ideas but simple norms of common decency and honesty, nothing you have ever demonstrated.

 

[prometeus]

Explain what a coherent sentence is then...

One that is grammatically correct and makes sense too and if yo had to have that explained to you...

 

[Bodi]

One that is grammatically correct and makes sense too and if yo had to have that explained to you...

Thank you for providing an example of an incoherent sentence for me to study...

 

[prometeus]

Thank you for providing an example of an incoherent sentence for me to study...

You did not ask for an example. Clearly you can't even follow the line of discussion.
You want one, go back and read what you wrote.

 

[j-mac]

No, that is simply fact. That you are unable or unwilling to admit it is also telling too.

You have no clue, being too busy defending Trump.

To Trump defenders? That would be like casting pearls before swine, and they are not ideas but simple norms of common decency and honesty, nothing you have ever demonstrated.

Wow....Your post here is supremely disappointing...These are things I doubt you would say other than from the safety of an anonymous message board...You want to type about "common decency" then type the absolute insults you did here? I feel sorry for you.

 

[prometeus]

Wow....Your post here is supremely disappointing...

It was not intended as something to please you.

These are things I doubt you would say other than from the safety of an anonymous message board...

You do not know the first thing about me so do not make stupid assumptions.

You want to type about "common decency" then type the absolute insults you did here?

Yea, reality can be painful to some.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

One that is grammatically correct and makes sense too and if yo had to have that explained to you...

OOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spelling error.

Spelling ERROR!

SPELLING ERROR!!!!

PS - Out of respect for the Forum Rules, I will NOT add "Nyah, nyah, nyah.".

 

[mrdeltoid]

Actually the "topic" of the thread ORIGINALLY was "crappy polls and those who use them to prove what they want proved", but thread drift does happen.

If you are using the originally linked article to prove your thesis that "today's young Americans believe our country is racist and do not believe it is the greatest country in the world" then I would refer you back to the ORIGINAL "topic" which was, again, "crappy polls and those who use them to prove what they want proved".

Well here's the thread title " Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds " So, now the thread topic is not in dispute. If you want to impugn the source, that's a different matter, that, perhaps you would like to start a thread on, or just be direct and say you question the validity of the poll used by the poster.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Interesting question.

Do you mean to imply that no one other than an American is capable of rational thought or intelligent analysis of data?

Or do you mean to imply that NO American would ever come to the conclusion "However America today is an embarrassment. America is the sum of it's people and the American people are a disgrace.".

Or are you simply a raving xenophobe?

1) No

2) No

3)No

As for your comment:" However America today is an embarrassment. America is the sum of it's people and the American people are a disgrace.". I try to stay away from generalizations. In this case, included in the sum of our citizens are Dr.'s, police officers, firemen, soldiers, etc. JMHO


I"ll try to answer in order:

1)

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Well here's the thread title " Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds " So, now the thread topic is not in dispute. If you want to impugn the source, that's a different matter, that, perhaps you would like to start a thread on, or just be direct and say you question the validity of the poll used by the poster.

One of the things that the moderators don't like is the way that I paraphrase the headlines, so, to keep them happy, I don't change a word from the headline of the original article that sparked my interest.

If you notice the

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:


"On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
​

bit in Post #1 of this thread, you will see that that is exactly what I did do.

Of course, if someone never bothered to actually read either my comment or the article, they might not know that.

You did actually read the whole of Post #1 before responding, didn't you?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

As for your comment:" However America today is an embarrassment. America is the sum of it's people and the American people are a disgrace.". I try to stay away from generalizations. In this case, included in the sum of our citizens are Dr.'s, police officers, firemen, soldiers, etc. JMHO


I"ll try to answer in order:

Before "answering in order, you might want to go back and see whose comment "However America today is an embarrassment. America is the sum of it's people and the American people are a disgrace." actually was - because it wasn't mine.

 

[prometeus]

OOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spelling error.

Spelling ERROR!

SPELLING ERROR!!!!

PS - Out of respect for the Forum Rules, I will NOT add "Nyah, nyah, nyah.".

Yo, you got NOTHING...yo...

(and spelling errors are not grammatical ones and that was my contention)

 

[Bodi]

You did not ask for an example. Clearly you can't even follow the line of discussion.
You want one, go back and read what you wrote.

I do not need to ask for an example of an incoherent sentence in order for you to provide one, like you did.

Additionally, I thank you for providing this post that is devoid of a logical sequencing...

Thank you again,

 

[mrdeltoid]

One of the things that the moderators don't like is the way that I paraphrase the headlines, so, to keep them happy, I don't change a word from the headline of the original article that sparked my interest.

If you notice the

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:


"On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
​

bit in Post #1 of this thread, you will see that that is exactly what I did do.

Of course, if someone never bothered to actually read either my comment or the article, they might not know that.

You did actually read the whole of Post #1 before responding, didn't you?

Afraid you got me there. I will do that though. Be mindful though, that I'm not totally disagreeing with you. Since my TBI trying to figure out context here on the boards is even more difficult than ever. I'll get back to you on this.

 

[mrdeltoid]

One of the things that the moderators don't like is the way that I paraphrase the headlines, so, to keep them happy, I don't change a word from the headline of the original article that sparked my interest.

If you notice the

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:


"On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
​

bit in Post #1 of this thread, you will see that that is exactly what I did do.

Of course, if someone never bothered to actually read either my comment or the article, they might not know that.

You did actually read the whole of Post #1 before responding, didn't you?

OK, I read the survey. It seemed pretty straight forward, at least concerning the subject of racism. The survey stated "America is a racist country". The choices are Disagree, strongly disagree, agree, strongly agree. No?

 

[Vadinho]

The threads topic is todays young Americans believe our country is racist and do not believe it is the greatest country in the world. I've presented three of the most influential sources of information, which lean liberal, that holds sway over our younger citizens and affect their perspective. Try to stay on topic, or start a thread on what "started the country to disbelieve their government."

I could care less what you posted, I have lived over 63 years in the nation and know exactly why people no longer believe their government. It was a gradual event that started as I described. Right wing radio picked it up in the 80s along with bull**** by Reagan that said the government was the problem. You want to change it? Stop listening to right wing crap and believe in America before party.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Afraid you got me there. I will do that though. Be mindful though, that I'm not totally disagreeing with you. Since my TBI trying to figure out context here on the boards is even more difficult than ever. I'll get back to you on this.

If you ever have to ask yourself "Is he being sarcastic?" with reference to my comments/posts, you will always end up on the plus side if your standard answer is "Yes.".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

OK, I read the survey. It seemed pretty straight forward, at least concerning the subject of racism. The survey stated "America is a racist country". The choices are Disagree, strongly disagree, agree, strongly agree. No?

Two points:

1. What was the respondent's individual definition of "racist"?; and
2. If the sample size is too small to produce statistically valid results, how statistically valid are the results?

Those don't even go into the "cherry picking" of the questions and data to be trumpeted from the hilltop.

 

[mrdeltoid]

I could care less what you posted, I have lived over 63 years in the nation and know exactly why people no longer believe their government. It was a gradual event that started as I described. Right wing radio picked it up in the 80s along with bull**** by Reagan that said the government was the problem. You want to change it? Stop listening to right wing crap and believe in America before party.

So we are both the same age. Yet we have very different perspectives. I was a marine in the early 70s and the morale was horrible. I was out for about 5 years when Reagan was elected. I thank God that gave the military the respect they deserve. Trump has done a great thing by getting veterans choice. I had some dental work done when on active duty and it felt like the scene from Marathon Man. Right wing radio was the first time conservative perspective got some air time. That's why the left hates "am talk radio". Then along came Fox News. The first time conservative perspective came to TV. And oh boy does the left hate Fox. Conservatives still have no representation on network tv. That a left wing bastion of liberals, and I doubt they will ever give that up. Then the internet came along. So now, we can check for ourselves, when the networks and NYT/WaPo parrot the left wing talking points. When the left was saying that the caravan was a hoax and no threat to our border, we just clicked a couple websites and saw it for our self. I would say our very different points of view might be explained by our profiles political leanings. Differing opinions isn't much of a surprise when one is" conservative" and the other is "very liberal". That's what makes this the greatest country on earth.

 

[mrdeltoid]

If you ever have to ask yourself "Is he being sarcastic?" with reference to my comments/posts, you will always end up on the plus side if your standard answer is "Yes.".

I'm starting to catch on.:lol:

 

[mrdeltoid]

Two points:

1. What was the respondent's individual definition of "racist"?; and
2. If the sample size is too small to produce statistically valid results, how statistically valid are the results?

Those don't even go into the "cherry picking" of the questions and data to be trumpeted from the hilltop.

Touche'. BTW, I'm right with you when it comes to polls. Even when there IS a large enough sampling, then you must believe that everybody is being truthful, which we found out in 2016, can't always be depended on. As an aside, I'm finding your sense of humor is an acquired taste.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Touche'. BTW, I'm right with you when it comes to polls. Even when there IS a large enough sampling, then you must believe that everybody is being truthful, which we found out in 2016, can't always be depended on. As an aside, I'm finding your sense of humor is an acquired taste.

There are meds that you can take for that but they cost one hell of a lot (well aged Bourbon is one of them) and some aren't FDA approved.

The original questions were crappily constructed and used too many subjective terms as if they were objective so even the primary data was untrustworthy.

The original poll was crappily conducted and wouldn't have produced statistically significant results no matter what the questions were.

The original article used "cherry-picked" sections of the poll and ignored the sections which didn't toe the party line.

People who understand none of those three things use the article to "prove" something that they want to be true.

 

[mrdeltoid]

There are meds that you can take for that but they cost one hell of a lot (well aged Bourbon is one of them) and some aren't FDA approved.

The original questions were crappily constructed and used too many subjective terms as if they were objective so even the primary data was untrustworthy.

The original poll was crappily conducted and wouldn't have produced statistically significant results no matter what the questions were.

The original article used "cherry-picked" sections of the poll and ignored the sections which didn't toe the party line.

People who understand none of those three things use the article to "prove" something that they want to be true.

I understand your theory, but I don't understand why somebody would want the youth of America to believe this is a racist country, and that we aren't the best system available.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I understand your theory, but I don't understand why somebody would want the youth of America to believe this is a racist country, and that we aren't the best system available.

For the same reason that someone would want the youth of America to believe that there is absolutely no racism in the US and/or that no other "system" is capable of providing what the existing American system provides - because they have a vested interest in having them think that.

Generally speaking the people who live in "developed countries" have a tendency to believe that their own country's system is "the best system available" (for them, and if taken as a whole). Very few of them believe that their own country's system is so perfect that it is akin to treason to even think about changing it.

In the US, it appears that the majority opinion is that

"If only the __Republicans/Democrats [pick ONE ONLY]__ had total power then the US would be perfect and if everyone in the whole world was identical to Americans then the world would be perfect. Anyone who disagrees with that is so unAmerican as to be totally ignored (if not locked up)."
​

- which is by way of being a majorly over generalized statement, but you get my drift.

I happen live in Canada and to be of the opinion that "The Canadian System" is (for me) superior to "The American System" and if I wasn't then I'd either [1] move to the US (the easy solution), or [2] attempt to change "The Canadian System" so that it was identical to "The American System" (the difficult solution), but, in any event I wouldn't whine about how crappy "The Canadian System" was and not do anything else about it (the stupid non-solution).

I have no issue with someone who lives in the US holding the opinion that "The American System" is the best system (for them).

If someone lives in the US is of the opinion that "The American System" is (for them) NOT "The Best System" then my advice to them is to either:

1. move out of the US to someplace that has a system that is better for them;
2. get off their butt and attempt to change "The American System" so that it is closer to what they think "The Best System" is, or
3. if they don't want to exercise Options 1 or 2 - shut up and quit whining about how crappy "The American System" is.

 

[iguanaman]

This is de jure versus de facto.

De jure = In law.
De facto = In practice.

It's like dismissing the reality behind the Civil Rights Marches because the Declaration and the Constitution said all is well. One of the reasons the U.S. "goes as far" is that it is trying to overcome the base instincts of racism, bigotry, and sexism that deep-rooted religion and centuries of institutional slavery created.

Our country is littered with the evidence of said racism, bigotry and sexism that some still deny. From the statues of Confederate traitors in our public parks to the halls of Congress full of old white men who desire to control and oppress women, we have a lurid heritage of hate and oppression. The progress we have made in the minds of citizens lags the progress we have made in our laws by a mile. That poll gives me hope for the future though. The first step in curing social ills is admitting you have a problem.