NARRATIVE FAIL: Minorities, LGBT Community, Women Show Up In Force At Pro-Gun Rally

[bluesmoke]

Really, dude? :lamo

How Gun Control Advocates See Gun Owners: Racist Homophobes - The Truth About Guns

Pulse: The Intersection of Homophobia, Racism And Access To Guns | HuffPost

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mi...logs/andres-oppenheimer/article201803929.html

Racism linked with gun ownership and opposition to gun control in white Americans

I ignored your first link because it is nothing more than blog comments. You didn’t bother to single-out anything pertinent by posting a quote or other link contained therein.

The second link says nothing that denigrates gun rights advocates. It’s what is called “spam” because you post links that require others to read through an entire article to find…nothing. You didn’t post a single quote from that link that supports your claim.

Once I hit spam, I’ve already wasted my time with a dishonest poster like you so I don’t bother going any further. Post a pertinent quote from which link and where. You're nothing more than spamming, throwing the dictionary or encyclopedia at me to find what you falsely say is in there.

 

[Rich2018]

Really, dude? :lamo

How Gun Control Advocates See Gun Owners: Racist Homophobes - The Truth About Guns

Pulse: The Intersection of Homophobia, Racism And Access To Guns | HuffPost

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mi...logs/andres-oppenheimer/article201803929.html

Racism linked with gun ownership and opposition to gun control in white Americans

The RW are characterized by suspicion or phobia of minority groups.

Can you list any examples of left wing racist, homophobic/anti-transgender, anti-liberal groups ?


Can you list a single anti-gun right wing group ?

 

[jaeger19]

The RW are characterized by suspicion or phobia of minority groups.

Can you list any examples of left wing racist, homophobic/anti-transgender, anti-liberal groups ?


Can you list a single anti-gun right wing group ?

Actually gun control is promoted by left wing racists... like Bloomberg. Gun control is all about racism. Its why it started. To stop minorities from having access to firearms.

What law do you think that Bloomberg used for his stop and frisk policies? You think the police were stopping and frisking for frozen yogurt. No.. they were using gun control laws for the reason for stopping and frisking.

And who was being stopped and frisked? You think it was bloombergs rich white friends... or minorities?

Gun control is simply another form of institutional racism.

 

[Rich2018]

Actually gun control is promoted by left wing racists... like Bloomberg.

Why is Bloomberg a racist ?

Are you talking about comments he made in the past ?
Well I used to be a soldier and yes, I was a homophobic racist - in the company of all-white heterosexual men

Gun control is all about racism.

LOL

That is an all time classic remark.

So the Labour government of Tony Blair and the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher were "racist" governments ?
Or do you mean only people in the US favoring gun control are racists ?


That has to be the most stupid comment against gun control ever. And I meant ever.

...to stop minorities from having access to firearms....

The only minority anyone seeks to stop are the minority who become those who'd kill and injure with a gun.

What law do you think that Bloomberg used for his stop and frisk policies?

No idea

You think the police were stopping and frisking for frozen yogurt. No.. they were using gun control laws for the reason for stopping and frisking....

So you don't like that method of searching for guns...and neither do I
That doesn't mean gun control is bad...just badly enforced

And who was being stopped and frisked? You think it was bloombergs rich white friends... or minorities?

Gun control is simply another form of institutional racism.

So you want stop and search, but more accurate racial quotas ?

 

[jaeger19]

Why is Bloomberg a racist ?

Are you talking about comments he made in the past ?
?

His support of stop and frisk and his gun control advocacy.

 

[jaeger19]

LOL

That is an all time classic remark.

So the Labour government of Tony Blair and the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher were "racist" governments ?
Or do you mean only people in the US favoring gun control are racists ?


That has to be the most stupid comment against gun control ever. And I meant ever.

Not at all. I suggest you read up on some history of gun control. Start with reconstruction after the civil war.

Then research gun control during the civil rights movement and the responses from such notables as Ronald Reagan.. when the black panthers showed up in protest but carrying firearms.

The only minority anyone seeks to stop are the minority who become those who'd kill and injure with a gun.

Yep.. BECAUSE they believe that all minorities are those that would kill and injure with a gun. Which is why black folks are searched for illegal firearms.. so much more than white people... Despite the fact that white people who are searched by the police are much more likely to have contraband.

That doesn't mean gun control is bad...just badly enforced

No.. it shows you what the ultimate goal of gun control is.. racism.

Let me add this:

o the Labour government of Tony Blair and the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher were "racist" governments

hmmm... who is more likely to be allowed to own a firearm in the UK.. a wealthy white landowner.. or a poor shopkeeper from Africa?

So you want stop and search, but more accurate racial quotas

WTF are you talking about.

I abhor stop and frisk..and what the heck are you talking about "racial quotas"??????

 

[Rich2018]

His support of stop and frisk and his gun control advocacy.

That doesn't make him a racist

Not at all. I suggest you read up on some history of gun control. Start with reconstruction after the civil war.

Why, that has no relevance today

Yep.. BECAUSE they believe that all minorities are those that would kill and injure with a gun. Which is why black folks are searched for illegal firearms.. so much more than white people...

No, I think it's called racial profiling because black people are proportionately more involved in gun violence that white people

No.. it shows you what the ultimate goal of gun control is.. racism.

Racism isn't a goal

... who is more likely to be allowed to own a firearm in the UK.. a wealthy white landowner.. or a poor shopkeeper from Africa?

A shotgun - both have equal likelihood of getting a licence unless there's other factors like criminal or mental history

Now a rifle licence is different, you have to show a need for it. A wealthy landowner is more likely to be involved in organized sports or rifle competitions than someone (of any race) from the inner city.

WTF are you talking about.

I was asking you - apologies for the confusion in omitting the question mark.

Do you want to stop the "stop and search" policy or if not, do you want it applied on a more racially equitable basis ?

I abhor stop and frisk..and what the heck are you talking about "racial quotas"

So you want to end all stop and search and I would agree with you.

 

[jaeger19]

That doesn't make him a racist
.

Yes it does. In fact. it makes him the worst kind of racist... the one that enacts institutional racism, under the guise of "safety".. Its this kind of pervasive and subtle racism that is why minorities, particularly African americans, have such economic and social issues.

Why, that has no relevance today

Of course it does.. unless you think that racism doesn't exist today. If you think that.. well.. there is no help for you.

o, I think it's called racial profiling because black people are proportionately more involved in gun violence that white people

Yeah.. despite gun control.. think about it.

A shotgun - both have equal likelihood of getting a licence unless there's other factors like criminal or mental history

BULLCRAP. I already showed you that reasons that the UK will allow you to own a firearm shotgun included. . The wealthy white landowner qualifies. The African shopkeeper doesn't. Unless you think he has the thousands of dollars available for the hunting or shooting club membership necessary to prove you have a "legitimate" reason to own a shotgun Sorry man.. but the "having a reason for it".. extends to shotguns as well.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes it does. In fact. it makes him the worst kind of racist... the one that enacts institutional racism, under the guise of "safety".. Its this kind of pervasive and subtle racism that is why minorities, particularly African americans, have such economic and social issues.

What is your criteria for a racist.

Is racial profile always racist ?

Of course it does.. unless you think that racism doesn't exist today. If you think that.. well.. there is no help for you.

No, gun control 100 years ago has no relevance today
Gun control in the 60's has no relevance today


It doesn't matter what or why gun control laws were passed in the past - they have ZERO relevance today.

...despite gun control.. think about it

That current gun control is an ineffective half measure and a much stronger, more comprehensive ban on the private ownership of firearms is required. To seize privately owned firearms from EVERYBODY regardless of race, age, sex, background, anything

I already showed you that reasons that the UK will allow you to own a firearm shotgun included. . The wealthy white landowner qualifies. The African shopkeeper doesn't....

Absolutely yes he does

A small fee and unless the police have reason to deny it to him, he gets a shotgun licence.

A rifle licence will be harder - a white man in the city stands less chance than say a wealthy black man or Asian with a country estate.

...but the "having a reason for it".. extends to shotguns as well.

No it doesn't.

 

[jaeger19]

What is your criteria for a racist.

Is racial profile always racist ?

WTF? Are you for real?

Gun control in the 60's has no relevance today

It most certainly does. Especially when those laws are still in place.

That current gun control is an ineffective half measure and a much stronger, more comprehensive ban on the private ownership of firearms is required. To seize privately owned firearms from EVERYBODY regardless of race, age, sex, background, anything

Stop lying..

So now we are back to taking privately owned guns from everyone.. and when you get cornered about it.. you lie again and say "but but the UK allows some guns"...

Its just shows how deceitful you have to be to try and support your position.. which frankly is unsupportable.

A small fee and unless the police have reason to deny it to him, he gets a shotgun licence.

And a reason to deny it to him is if he can't show that he is participating in shooting sports. IE.. has the money to compete and participate in a shooting club, hunting club etc.

than say a wealthy black man or Asian with a country estate.

Sure.. because the UK is well known for its Black and Asian nobility.

 

[Rich2018]

WTF? Are you for real?

Your dodge is noted, but I'll ask again: Is racial profiling always a racist policy ?

It most certainly does. Especially when those laws are still in place.

Which law ?

Stop lying...

What is the lie to which you refer ?
Exactly ?

So now we are back to taking privately owned guns from everyone..

What do you mean "back to" ?
Did we ever leave it ?

...you lie again and say "but but the UK allows some guns"...

What?
The UK ***DOES*** allow some guns

It allows muzzle loaders, single action rifles, shotguns with a capacity less than 4, (also it defines hand guns by length so some modified hand guns are allowed)
Perhaps you need to read up on UK gun laws ?

Its just shows how deceitful you have to be to try and support your position.. which frankly is unsupportable.

Where's the deceit ?
What is not supported and why ?

And a reason to deny it to him is if he can't show that he is participating in shooting sports....

Nope. Show this the case because it's not
Now participation is shooting sportys can assist getting a RIFLE licence, in which the applicant case to prove a need/use

I think it's funny that you with zero experience of British gun laws are trying to school me, who has actually lived there :lol:

IE.. has the money to compete and participate in a shooting club, hunting club etc.

Let's expose your ignorance

How much a year does it cost to join a shooting club in the UK? More than or less than a golf club ?

Sure.. because the UK is well known for its Black and Asian nobility.

Do you know what nobility means ?
Do you STILL equate an inherited title to wealth - I think you should stop commenting on the UK, a country you know nothing about. You sound like a fool.

 

[jaeger19]

Your dodge is noted, but I'll ask again: Is racial profiling always a racist policy ?

l.

Of course

Which law ?

Laws against concealed weapons.

What do you mean "back to" ?
Did we ever leave it ?

Sure.. you lie about it all the time now.

In one sentence you will say we need to take away guns from say me.
In the next instance you say we won't take the guns away because "shotguns" or whatever will be available.

SO when it suits your purpose in the debate.. you change your stance to purposely lie about your stance.

Where's the deceit ?
What is not supported and why ?

See above as one of many examples.

You purposely say we are less safe.. yet violent crime.. which includes mass shootings has been the lowest in decades.. for some time.. (despite guns sales going up() and this has been proven to you.
You purposely say that there is no need for a gun for safety.. yet it has been proven to you.. with link to the CDC report that firearms for defensive use.. is greater than firearms use for crime.. and that individuals that defend themselves with firearms suffer less injury than those that defend themselves with other means.
You purposely say the US is less safe because of "gun violence"... yet.. when its proved to you that SYRIA has less gun violence than the US...you claim that Syria is NOT safer (despite that lower gun violence).

The list goes on and on. Yet despite the fact that you have been proven wrong on all your suppositions.. you continue to state things that are untrue.. and you KNOW they are untrue. That's being deceitful.

Nope. Show this the case because it's not.

I already did.

You go ahead and show that under British gun laws you don't have to show a valid reason to own a firearm.

I think it's funny that you with zero experience of British gun laws are trying to school me, who has actually lived there

Except that I HAVE been to the UK and I have hunted and shot on hunting clubs there. I daresay I have been to more hunting clubs and shooting clubs in Europe than you have.. including the UK.

You have no inkling of how British gun laws work. None.

Of course.. you don't know how US gun laws work either... which I think is funny.. because you know virtually nothing about US gun laws, the history of them, and virtually nothing about firearms in general nor their use.. .and yet you LIVE HERE.. and then you expect us to think you are some expert in a country that you lived in for a time? Please.

 

[Rich2018]

Of course

Why is racial profiling a racist policy ?

Laws against concealed weapons.

Explain

Sure.. you lie about it all the time now.

You said:

So now we are back to taking privately owned guns from everyone

Prove it, or admit you lied

In one sentence you will say we need to take away guns from say me.
In the next instance you say we won't take the guns away because "shotguns" or whatever will be available.

That is true
Guns would be confiscated from people
But not ALL guns - I support British gun control laws which still allow certain kins of firearms to be privately owned

It would help if you had better reading comprehension

Stop lying

So when it suits your purpose in the debate.. you change your stance to purposely lie about your stance.

Another lie

You purposely say we are less safe.. yet violent crime.. which includes mass shootings has been the lowest in decades...

If you buy a gun it makes you LESS safe

You constantly repeat your lie that having a gun makes you safer

Stop lying

You purposely say that there is no need for a gun for safety.. yet it has been proven to you..

LOL, what is the difference between "saying" and "purposefully saying" ?

You have not proven anything, you have just repeated your lies

Stop lying

You purposely say the US is less safe because of "gun violence"... yet.. when its proved to you that SYRIA has less gun violence than the US...you claim that Syria is NOT safer...

Syria is NOT safer that the USA - have you not noticed the reports of refugees leaving Syria in recent years ?


"In 2019, UNHCR aims to support more than 5 million refugees living in neighboring countries and 13.5 million people inside Syria who are in extremely dangerous circumstances."


Syrian Refugee Crisis: Aid, Statistics and News | USA for UNHCR


Syria safer than the USA ? Stop lying

Yet despite the fact that you have been proven wrong on all your suppositions.. you continue to state things that are untrue.. and you KNOW they are untrue. That's being deceitful.

You have proven nothing but repeatedly told your lies

Stop lying

You go ahead and show that under British gun laws you don't have to show a valid reason to own a firearm.

So you admit that British gun laws (which I advocate the US follows) allow some guns - mostly shotguns ?
You're found out in another lie

In the UK, you have to show a valid reason for a rifle, but for a shotgun licence the police have the burden of proving you shouldn't have one. With shotguns, the UK has a "shall issue" policy:


Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia



"Shotguns are defined in UK law as smoothbore firearms with barrels not shorter than 24 inches (61 cm) and a bore not larger than 2 inches (5.1 cm) in diameter...Shotguns thus defined are subject to a less rigorous certification process than for the full FAC; an applicant is not required by law to make a good case for being granted a certificate, but the police may withhold a certificate if they consider that the applicant does not have satisfactory security in place, or granting it would constitute a danger to public safety or to the peace. A certificate holder may possess as many shotguns as can be securely stored."


Firearms regulation in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia



That took me about 1 minute to locate - why are your internet search skills so deficient ?

Except that I HAVE been to the UK and I have hunted and shot on hunting clubs there....

Really, when was the last time you were there, what did you hunt and with which "hunting club" ?

You have no inkling of how British gun laws work

No, you have no idea what you're talking about

You don't know the difference between a firearms certificate and a shotgun certificate

This post has already exposed your ignorance of gun laws in a country you know nothing of

...you don't know how US gun laws work either... which I think is funny.. because you know virtually nothing about US gun laws, the history of them, and virtually nothing about firearms in general nor their use.. .and yet you LIVE HERE.. and then you expect us to think you are some expert in a country that you lived in for a time? Please.

I know about gun laws in Georgia, which is where I live.
And I know that you tell lies.

 

[ecofarm]

Why is racial profiling a racist policy ?

The majority power is always most responsible and never profiled. All the talk of profiling Muslims and most of our terrorism is white supremacists.

 

[jaeger19]

Why is racial profiling a racist policy ?

.

Well.. that's pretty evident that you are profiling people based on their race. And since people are defined more by their individual characteristics.. than by their race.. you are inappropriately using a racial profile as your criteria.

AS in I have to search this black person because black people are more dangerous.

Prove it, or admit you lied

Please.. you have stated over and over that you want to take guns away..

Guns would be confiscated from people
But not ALL guns - I support British gun control laws which still allow certain kins of firearms to be privately owned

'''

Sure.. that statement will last just until you tell me that we should take away all guns from private citizens to make them safe etc. Stop lying

If you buy a gun it makes you LESS safe

You constantly repeat your lie that having a gun makes you safer

Stop lying

I am not.. I already provided the CDC report that shows that defensive use of firearms is greater than those used in crime and that those that use firearms for defense... suffer less injury than those that defend themselves with other means.

The fact is that guns certainly don't make you LESS safe.

Syria is NOT safer that the USA - have you not noticed the reports of refugees leaving Syria in recent years ?

EXACTLY.. .. you really aren't good at reading comprehension are you? Syria is NOT safer than the US..EVEN THOUGH.. Syria has a LOWER GUN DEATH RATE.. than the US.

Which PROVES that using gun deaths, gun injuries.. as a statistic is an invalid way to look at safety.

Yet.. you keep claiming that guns make us less safe... and you just now proved that they DO NOT. Otherwise.. Syria would be safer than the US.. since it has less "gun death/injury".

Face it man.. I have proved your premise completely wrong.. multiple times. and yet you persist in lying. That's on you.

So you admit that British gun laws (which I advocate the US follows) allow some guns - mostly shotguns ?
You're found out in another lie

Ummm.. I have ALWAYS known that British gun laws allow some guns. I have NEVER EVER said that they didn't. I pointed out that if you want a gun in Britain.. you pretty much have to be rich and white.

In the UK, you have to show a valid reason for a rifle, but for a shotgun licence the police have the burden of proving you shouldn't have one. With shotguns, the UK has a "shall issue" policy:

YEah.. not really. That's the problem with Wikipedia. So I went to the actual source that was used by Wikipedia. (by the way the website says this in the beginning"

The following information is presented by Marple Rifle & Pistol Club (MRPC) in good faith. It is our understanding of certain aspects of current legislation covering the licensing of guns within England and Wales but should not be taken as a complete or definitive statement of the law.

When an application is made for an SGC the police will wish to satisfy themselves that the applicant may be permitted to possess a shotgun without danger to public safety or to the peace. This will necessitate an interview and consideration of the applicant's security arrangements. The law does not require the applicant to make out a good case for being granted an SGC, but rather extends the police's grounds for refusing one. The police should therefore need to make further inquiries only where it comes to their notice that there may be genuine doubts about the applicant's reason for wishing to possess a shotgun.

That took me about 1 minute to locate - why are your internet search skills so deficient ?

See above.

You don't know the difference between a firearms certificate and a shotgun certificate

This post has already exposed your ignorance of gun laws in a country you know nothing of

yeah no.. again.. see above.

I know about gun laws in Georgia, which is where I live.

Naw.. you have demonstrated that you don't. And you have demonstrated that you have no knowledge of firearms.

The only one here telling lies is you.

 

[Rich2018]

The majority power is always most responsible and never profiled. All the talk of profiling Muslims and most of our terrorism is white supremacists.

How many bombings, assassinations and hijackings have white supremacists done recently.

They commit hate crimes not terrorist acts.


I don't think you have an understanding of terrorism.

 

[ecofarm]

They commit hate crimes not terrorist acts.

What's the difference?

 

[jaeger19]

How many bombings, assassinations and hijackings have white supremacists done recently.

They commit hate crimes not terrorist acts.


I don't think you have an understanding of terrorism.

hmmmm

When the New Jersey Office of Homeland Security and Preparedness issued its terrorism threat assessment for 2020 last week, it noted a marked shift. The threat level from violent, homegrown extremists, and specifically white supremacists, was marked in red as the top category: “High.” The threat from the Islamic State, Al Qaeda and their ilk was demoted to third, in green: “Low.”

Its almost like you LIKE.. being wrong...

As Domestic Terrorists Outpace Jihadists, New U.S. Law Is Debated - The New York Times
Terrorism experts believe that holds true for the entire United States.

 

[Rich2018]

Well.. that's pretty evident that you are profiling people based on their race. And since people are defined more by their individual characteristics.. than by their race.. you are inappropriately using a racial profile as your criteria.

If, for the sake of argument, statistically most gun crime is caused by black men aged 15-30, why is targeting that demographic "inappropriate"

...you have stated over and over that you want to take guns away...

Yes but not all guns

I have repeatedly and from the very start of debating on here, that the USA could do no worse than use the British gun laws as a template for its own

...that statement will last just until you tell me that we should take away all guns from private citizens to make them safe etc....

Again, not ALL guns
Stop lying

...I already provided the CDC report that shows that defensive use of firearms is greater than those used in crime...

So you lie through statistics
Having a gun makes you LESS safe statistically according to studies
Stop lying

The fact is that guns certainly don't make you LESS safe...

"Research finds that having a gun in your home can make your household less safe..."


Keeping a Gun in Your Home Can Make Your Household Less Safe, Research Finds - Pacific Standard



"Keeping a gun in your home is supposed to keep you safe. Matthew Miller's research suggests that the opposite is true...."


Does having a gun at home really make you safer?



"The research suggests that the presence of a firearm actually makes homes less safe...."


Poll: most Americans say gun ownership increases safety. Research: no. - Vox




"Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home..."


Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study | American Journal of Epidemiology | Oxford Academic



STOP LYING

Syria is NOT safer than the US..EVEN THOUGH.. Syria has a LOWER GUN DEATH RATE.. than the US....

Syria is a war zone with millions of people fleeing as refugees:


"Estimates of the total number of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, by opposition activist groups, vary between 380,636 and about 585,000. On 23 April 2016, the United Nations and Arab League Envoy to Syria put out an estimate of 400,000 that had died in the war."

And you're going to claim that's higher than the USA ???
Stop lying


If you are claiming the USA has a higher gun death rate than a war zone, are you not making a good case for US gun law LOL

Which PROVES that using gun deaths, gun injuries.. as a statistic is an invalid way to look at safety.

No it still means the annual 40,000 gun related deaths and 70,000+ gun related injuries in the USA are an unacceptable level
Unless you think that are acceptable ?

....you keep claiming that guns make us less safe...

No, the various studies do that. I merely use their findings in my argument.

....I have proved your premise completely wrong....

Absolutely you have not
Stop lying

....I pointed out that if you want a gun in Britain.. you pretty much have to be rich and white.

Another lie
I proved that this is absolutely not true
You have no evidence to support your lies

...and you have demonstrated that you have no knowledge of firearms....

Another lie
Probably told to cover up your own total lack of knowledge, since pretty much everything you have said so far has been sown to be a lie



I also note that you conveniently "forgot" to answer to question I asked you

"Really, when was the last time you were there, what did you hunt and with which "hunting club" ? "


Covering up another lie are we ?
What's the matter, cat got your tongue ?

 

[Rich2018]

What's the difference?

A hate crime is attacking a person(s) you just dislike

A terrorist act is trying to force a government/people agree to do something it/they wouldn't otherwise do
"Propaganda by deed"

 

[ecofarm]

A hate crime is attacking a person(s) you just dislike

A terrorist act is trying to force a government to do something it wouldn't otherwise do
"Propaganda by deed"

Hate crimes are trying to terrorize a group, marginalize them and force them away to achieve political goals. That's trying to force the government to do something it otherwise wouldn't do. Many claim their intention is to start a race war.

 

[Rich2018]

hmmmm



Its almost like you LIKE.. being wrong...

As Domestic Terrorists Outpace Jihadists, New U.S. Law Is Debated - The New York Times
Terrorism experts believe that holds true for the entire United States.

That just shows a misunderstanding of the difference between a hate crime an a terrorist act.

 

[ecofarm]

That just shows a misunderstanding of the difference between a hate crime an a terrorist act.

You want them to be different but they're not.

 

[Rich2018]

Hate crimes are trying to terrorize minorities, marginalize them and force them away to achieve political goals. That's trying to force the government to do something it otherwise would do. Many claim their intention is to start a race war.

No they're not.

Hate crimes are committed by hateful, disorganized (often isolated individuals) against people he/she just doesn't like.

Now if there was an organized group with a goal of forcing a certain ethnic group to re-locate, that might be terrorism, but that activity doesn't really exist today in the USA. and I'm not sure it ever has.

 

[Rich2018]

You want them to be different but they're not.

Yes hate crimes and terrorist acts are distinctively different.

A hate crime has no political goal. The perpetrator just wants to hurt members of the demographic he/she hates.