NARRATIVE FAIL: Minorities, LGBT Community, Women Show Up In Force At Pro-Gun Rally

[Rich2018]

Neither will I be taking North Korea's advice on solving the problem of obesity, though they seem to have a handle on it.

You've just been confused by the facts. That's pretty funny :lol:

 

[goldkam]

The rest of the world's opinion on our internal matters is less relevant than my opinion.

No you really should be respecting and taking on board their opinion. Outside views are critical to bringing new light or a new perspective to an issue.

Considering the tourism industry in the US is $1.8 trillion in 2018 supporting 7.8 million U.S. jobs. Travel and tourism exports accounted for 11 percent of all U.S. exports and nearly a third (32 percent) of all U.S. services exports. That same year, U.S. travel and tourism output represented 2.8 percent of gross domestic product. Expenditures by international visitors in the United States passed $251 billion in 2017, yielding a $77 billion trade surplus for the year.

The rest of the world doesn't care what you think they have the right to say and do whatever they like since they support the US to such an extent. Without the world the US would not be what it is. That is fact and you have to accept that.

We have more guns because we have a right to have guns and we have disposable income to buy them. That's hardly alarming to me. That you think it is alarming is nothing but an expression of your emotion.

That goes without saying....I think more to the point its actually because the culture has fostered such an obsessive and unhealthy relationship that people feel so patriotic and privileged to tout their firearm. Its become clear you don't see a problem with the fact theres more guns than people but not enough teachers in schools, a healthcare system in complete havoc, an education system in need of an overhaul. 43,000 deaths last year, 70,000 injuries, $200 billion plus financial cost because of gun violence.

Its a whole of not caring that you show as you live in your conservative bubble, not understanding or being willing to accept anything.

I am interested to see you perspective on this: If a mother of a child shot at school in a school shooting asks you do you see a problem that the US has more guns than people 120.4 per 100? How would you respond?

And then you immediately begin going on, once again, about reducing availability and numbers of guns.
Australia's overall suicide rate is higher than it's been in a decade, according to this: Australia's rising suicide rate sparks calls for national target to reduce deaths | Australia news | The Guardian

Nice try at a quick google search and interestingly you choose the first article that came up. Did you even read it?

I will educate you on how to read a graph....I am sick and tired of 'experts' thinking they know it all when its actually just all lies.

Suicide rate per 100,000 people:
1995- 2.15 per 100,000 people
1998- 1.26 per 100,000 people
2007- 0.92 per 100,000 people
2015- 0.79 per 100,000 people
2018- 0.72 per 100,000 people

Can I confirm you said that in 2018 its the highest its been in decades?? If so, can I clarify whether 2.15 is more or less than 0.72.

 

[TurtleDude]

Bit rich coming from someone who has no solutions themselves and uses this as a means of blaming and pointing the finger. I have put forth my solutions and you seemingly don't like them and strike them down as you live in this bubble fuelled by an obsessive and unhealthy relationship with firearms. Why is it pro gun individuals are so uncooperative and narrow minded?




Once again you display this heartless act of undermining the deaths of 43,000 people. Your undermine suicides. You undermine a human dying. From the approach you take you wouldn't care if 5,000, 150,000 or 5 million people died, because you are so focused on firearms, you are so focused on yourself, you are so focused on outdated national principles.

Why do you downplay suicides with a firearm?




You are a hypocrite. Its this double standard set.....you ask for solutions (which you have none of) which I provide and you cannot even rationally have a debate or discussion about it. They are rational in dozens of countries around the world and are rational in the eyes of some within the US yet you knock them down because once again you are so focused on firearms, you are so focused on yourself, you are so focused on outdated national principles.

why should I have solutions to getting rid of guns? You want to ban guns but you are afraid to come out and say what you want. I don't find the things you complain about to be problems worthy of violating our constitutional rights,.

 

[RF667799]

No you really should be respecting and taking on board their opinion. Outside views are critical to bringing new light or a new perspective to an issue.

Considering the tourism industry in the US is $1.8 trillion in 2018 supporting 7.8 million U.S. jobs. Travel and tourism exports accounted for 11 percent of all U.S. exports and nearly a third (32 percent) of all U.S. services exports. That same year, U.S. travel and tourism output represented 2.8 percent of gross domestic product. Expenditures by international visitors in the United States passed $251 billion in 2017, yielding a $77 billion trade surplus for the year.

The rest of the world doesn't care what you think they have the right to say and do whatever they like since they support the US to such an extent. Without the world the US would not be what it is. That is fact and you have to accept that.

All that tourism despite our "alarming" number of guns? Imagine that.

Besides, guests just don't get to have a say in our internal affairs. Sorry.

That goes without saying....I think more to the point its actually because the culture has fostered such an obsessive and unhealthy relationship that people feel so patriotic and privileged to tout their firearm. Its become clear you don't see a problem with the fact theres more guns than people but not enough teachers in schools, a healthcare system in complete havoc, an education system in need of an overhaul. 43,000 deaths last year, 70,000 injuries, $200 billion plus financial cost because of gun violence.

Its a whole of not caring that you show as you live in your conservative bubble, not understanding or being willing to accept anything.

Blah blah...prejudicial language..blah blah....irrelevancies...blah blah.....assumption based on stereotype.

Nice rant.

I am interested to see you perspective on this: If a mother of a child shot at school in a school shooting asks you do you see a problem that the US has more guns than people 120.4 per 100? How would you respond?

I wouldn't feel a need to respond at all to a distraught mother making an irrational emotional appeal. What would you do? Slap her on the back and sign her to your cause?

Nice try at a quick google search and interestingly you choose the first article that came up. Did you even read it?

I will educate you on how to read a graph....I am sick and tired of 'experts' thinking they know it all when its actually just all lies.

Suicide rate per 100,000 people:
1995- 2.15 per 100,000 people
1998- 1.26 per 100,000 people
2007- 0.92 per 100,000 people
2015- 0.79 per 100,000 people
2018- 0.72 per 100,000 people

Can I confirm you said that in 2018 its the highest its been in decades?? If so, can I clarify whether 2.15 is more or less than 0.72.

You do understand you aren't even posting a link to the statistics you are claiming, right?

Do you wish to keep your current claim that the 2018 Suicide Rate is .72 per 100,000? While understanding that earlier you claimed that was the Gun Suicide Rate?

 

[Somerville]

All that tourism despite our "alarming" number of guns? Imagine that.

Besides, guests just don't get to have a say in our internal affairs. Sorry.


(deleted words)

"All that tourism" is dropping, some because of Trump's bloviating, and more recently some because of quarantines following the outbreak of the coronavirus but also because national governments are warning their citizens about the dangers of visiting the US

The ‘Trump Slump’ Continues: Number Of International Visitors To U.S. Drops In First Half Of 2019

After seven years of double-digit growth, Chinese tourism to the States slowed to 4 percent in 2017 and did not improve in 2018. And so far, through July, travel from China is down 3.7 percent compared with last year, according to Commerce Department figures.

– Uncertainty surrounding the Trump administration in general.

– A strong dollar, which makes travel more expensive for visitors to America.

– Disagreement with and negative perceptions of U.S. policies on immigration.

– Pushback on the U.S. withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement.

– Difficulties with visas and airport and customs delays.

– Perception of safety risks. With increased gun violence, recent mass shootings and elements of danger discussed by politicians and media outlets, governments are increasingly warning their citizens about travel to the United States. China warned about traveling to the United States in June. And since the mass shootings this summer, travel warnings were issued from countries including Uruguay and Venezuela, and groups such as Amnesty International.

 

[Rich2018]

....I don't find the things you complain about to be problems worthy of violating our constitutional rights,.

To be fair, you don't consider anything would ever persuade you to give up your guns. You'd rther the world burned.


And which "rights" are those ?

What about others' right to life and liberty...you don't seem to care about those being taken away by guns.

 

[TurtleDude]

To be fair, you don't consider anything would ever persuade you to give up your guns. You'd rther the world burned.


And which "rights" are those ?

What about others' right to life and liberty...you don't seem to care about those being taken away by guns.

You'd rather see a million people be murdered by criminals than one criminal slain by an armed homeowner. That is a fair statement because you have admitted that your goal would lead to honest people being disarmed. You cannot find anything I have ever said that supports your idiotic claim about what I want.

 

[Rich2018]

You'd rather see a million people be murdered by criminals than one criminal slain by an armed homeowner. That is a fair statement because you have admitted that your goal would lead to honest people being disarmed. You cannot find anything I have ever said that supports your idiotic claim about what I want.

No, that is why I want to ban guns.

Would you turn in your guns if gun violence was that high ?

 

[bluesmoke]

I'm ok with them if they don't. I don't give a **** what live style they choose.

Then why is it a loss for "Leftists" but not for you? What proof do you have that Leftists give a **** any more than you do?

 

[apdst]

Then why is it a loss for "Leftists" but not for you? What proof do you have that Leftists give a **** any more than you do?

Because the Libbos don't get to portray gun owners as homophobes.

 

[Rich2018]

Because the Libbos don't get to portray gun owners as homophobes.

What is a Libbo"

 

[goldkam]

why should I have solutions to getting rid of guns? You want to ban guns but you are afraid to come out and say what you want. I don't find the things you complain about to be problems worthy of violating our constitutional rights,.

You should, if you are willing to weigh in on the debate, have or contribute solutions to reducing gun deaths? I never said your solution had to be premised on banning guns, whilst I would suggest it does, I cannot force you into such thinking.

This doesn’t make sense. You tell me I have come out and said I want to ‘ban guns’ but then contradict yourself by saying that I am afraid to come out and say what I want. It’s pretty simple….constitutional change, cultural change and then substantial firearm legislation reform that is what not only I want but many express the desire to see. The reforms are fundamental to reducing the deaths, injuries, financial and human cost and the unhealthy integration a firearm has had with society.

 

[TurtleDude]

You should, if you are willing to weigh in on the debate, have or contribute solutions to reducing gun deaths? I never said your solution had to be premised on banning guns, whilst I would suggest it does, I cannot force you into such thinking.

This doesn’t make sense. You tell me I have come out and said I want to ‘ban guns’ but then contradict yourself by saying that I am afraid to come out and say what I want. It’s pretty simple….constitutional change, cultural change and then substantial firearm legislation reform that is what not only I want but many express the desire to see. The reforms are fundamental to reducing the deaths, injuries, financial and human cost and the unhealthy integration a firearm has had with society.

how to reduce gun deaths

1) tougher sentences on armed violent criminals

2) getting rid of gun free zones

3) making "shall issue" the standard for CCW licenses and holding "May issue" to be unconstitutional as arbitrary and capricious

4) teach gun safety in the schools

5) enforce the federal perjury violations on Form 4473

6) rethink the idiotic war on drugs

7) strictly enforce Heller and its application to the several states through McDonald v Chicago

 

[RF667799]

You should, if you are willing to weigh in on the debate, have or contribute solutions to reducing gun deaths? I never said your solution had to be premised on banning guns, whilst I would suggest it does, I cannot force you into such thinking.

This doesn’t make sense. You tell me I have come out and said I want to ‘ban guns’ but then contradict yourself by saying that I am afraid to come out and say what I want. It’s pretty simple….constitutional change, cultural change and then substantial firearm legislation reform that is what not only I want but many express the desire to see. The reforms are fundamental to reducing the deaths, injuries, financial and human cost and the unhealthy integration a firearm has had with society.

Convince people to quit killing and assaulting one another. We have a good start. A huge majority already agree and abide by that.

 

[Rich2018]

Convince people to quit killing and assaulting one another. We have a good start. A huge majority already agree and abide by that.

Yeah....while you're at it convince them not to take, process or distribute drugs

Or speed

Or steal

 

[Rich2018]

how to reduce gun deaths

1) tougher sentences on armed violent criminals

2) getting rid of gun free zones

3) making "shall issue" the standard for CCW licenses and holding "May issue" to be unconstitutional as arbitrary and capricious

4) teach gun safety in the schools

5) enforce the federal perjury violations on Form 4473

6) rethink the idiotic war on drugs

7) strictly enforce Heller and its application to the several states through McDonald v Chicago

1. America incarcerates a higher proportion of its people than any country on Earth, so Id say relying on the deterrence of yet more years in jail, isn't exactly a panecea

2. Yeah, because what more could we do to make schools safer than to add more guns ?

3. Yeah, because muggers and rapists need to hide their guns...and you hiding your gun, won't help you most of the time.

4. Yeah, like where to run to, where to hide. British schools will instead focus on English, maths and science - you know, useful stuff

5. OK, how does that help ?

6. You may have a good point there

7. Why ?

 

[RF667799]

Yeah....while you're at it convince them not to take, process or distribute drugs

Or speed

Or steal

Unless speeding rises to the level of reckless hazard, I don't care about it. Nor taking, processing or distributing drugs so long as we are talking about adults making an informed decision.

Stealing I loosely lump in as a form of assault, since it is deliberately causing harm to another.

What's your solution for speeding? Make cars illegal?

 

[Rich2018]

Unless speeding rises to the level of reckless hazard, I don't care about it....

You don't care about gun either it seems, if it means surrendering your guns

I think you would care about gun crime and speeding if you were the victim

Nor taking, processing or distributing drugs so long as we are talking about adults making an informed decision.

Unless you were the victim of someone trying to get cash for their next fix.

Your taxes pay for prisons and jails you know

Stealing I loosely lump in as a form of assault, since it is deliberately causing harm to another.

That's robbery

I'm talking about someone talking what is your's when you are not there. Be it your car, TV or your identity

What's your solution for speeding? Make cars illegal?

So what happened to "Unless speeding rises to the level of reckless hazard, I don't care about it." ?

Is speeding a problem or isn't it ?

 

[RF667799]

You don't care about gun either it seems, if it means surrendering your guns

I think you would care about gun crime and speeding if you were the victim

Gun crime is harming others. My possession and use of my guns isn't harming anyone.

Speeding to the point of being a reckless hazard is different than simply exceeding the speed limit. Try not to dishonestly conflate the two.

Unless you were the victim of someone trying to get cash for their next fix.

Yeah, that's called stealing.

Your taxes pay for prisons and jails you know

I like pickup trucks.

That's robbery

I'm talking about someone talking what is your's when you are not there. Be it your car, TV or your identity

That's still deliberately harming me.

So what happened to "Unless speeding rises to the level of reckless hazard, I don't care about it." ?

Is speeding a problem or isn't it ?

No..you see, you brought up speeding and I'm asking your solution.

In the case of some people misusing their guns, you want to take guns from everyone. Is that your solution in the case of people misusing their cars?

 

[TurtleDude]

1. America incarcerates a higher proportion of its people than any country on Earth, so Id say relying on the deterrence of yet more years in jail, isn't exactly a panecea

2. Yeah, because what more could we do to make schools safer than to add more guns ?

3. Yeah, because muggers and rapists need to hide their guns...and you hiding your gun, won't help you most of the time.

4. Yeah, like where to run to, where to hide. British schools will instead focus on English, maths and science - you know, useful stuff

5. OK, how does that help ?

6. You may have a good point there

7. Why ?

your response to point Five indicates you need to learn this subject much better before discussing it

 

[bluesmoke]

Because the Libbos don't get to portray gun owners as homophobes.

What evidence do you have of liberals predominantly portraying gun owners as homophobes, as you clearly imply? You should realize two things: 1. That you don't have a problem with LGBTQ doesn't mean that others of your opinion on guns have no problem either. 2. Gun owners who don't have a problem with LGBTQ promoting gun rights does not mean they, the gun owners, have no problem with LGBTQ being of that persuasion/gender.

 

[apdst]

What evidence do you have of liberals predominantly portraying gun owners as homophobes, as you clearly imply? You should realize two things: 1. That you don't have a problem with LGBTQ doesn't mean that others of your opinion on guns have no problem either. 2. Gun owners who don't have a problem with LGBTQ promoting gun rights does not mean they, the gun owners, have no problem with LGBTQ being of that persuasion/gender.

Really, dude? :lamo

How Gun Control Advocates See Gun Owners: Racist Homophobes - The Truth About Guns

Pulse: The Intersection of Homophobia, Racism And Access To Guns | HuffPost

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mi...logs/andres-oppenheimer/article201803929.html

Racism linked with gun ownership and opposition to gun control in white Americans

 

[TurtleDude]

Really, dude? :lamo

How Gun Control Advocates See Gun Owners: Racist Homophobes - The Truth About Guns

Pulse: The Intersection of Homophobia, Racism And Access To Guns | HuffPost

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mi...logs/andres-oppenheimer/article201803929.html

Racism linked with gun ownership and opposition to gun control in white Americans

there is a fair amount of truth to the assertion that NR once made-that almost everyone or every group who sees white straight Christian males as the enemy, also supports gun control as a weapon against white straight Christian males.

 

[Rich2018]

your response to point Five indicates you need to learn this subject much better before discussing it

Explain

 

[Rich2018]

Gun crime is harming others. My possession and use of my guns isn't harming anyone.

All crime is hurting others.

Except maybe Blasphemy - maybe that is a victimless crime?

Yours and the guns tens of millions of other "law abiding" citizens whose guns will never be used hurt anybody...
Nevertheless they should be banned and confiscated
No, to save you the trouble, it isn't fair.

Speeding to the point of being a reckless hazard is different than simply exceeding the speed limit. Try not to dishonestly conflate the two.

Speeding is being reckless - it is dishonest to say that it is not
And no, I'm not talking about a one or two MPH above the limit.

Yeah, that's called stealing...

It's actually called theft and is not called that generally if you're present

I like pickup trucks.

I like 4x4 SUVs
So what ?

That's still deliberately harming me.

Which is probably why it's illegal

No..you see, you brought up speeding and I'm asking your solution.

Dodged as usual

You were asked: "So what happened to "Unless speeding rises to the level of reckless hazard, I don't care about it." ?

Is speeding a problem or isn't it ?

Your solution to reduce gun deaths appears to be some form of counseling. You said in post # 789 :

Convince people to quit killing and assaulting one another. We have a good start. A huge majority already agree and abide by that.

So would this approach work for speededing ?

If no, then why would it work in reducing gun deaths?

In the case of some people misusing their guns, you want to take guns from everyone. Is that your solution in the case of people misusing their cars?

Respectively:

Yes

No.