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Nancy Pelosi is winning in her battle with Trump. Here's why

You make good points. But there are other White Nationalists out there who can throw red meat to the Nationalist base by screaming MAGA and build a wall.

Give me a name that can fill the vacuum that Donald would leave in his wake. Screaming at the top of their lungs does not get it done. We have already seen Trump imitators simply fall flat on their faces.
 
I don't know either. But I'm sure Trump supporters would be very disappointed. Trump supporters, quite a lot of Republicans in general were angry at the GOP congress critters for not standing up more to Obama. Out of that anger, Trump was born. But he didn't come onto the horizon until the middle of 2015. They lashed onto him because they deemed him a fighter. A fighter, vulgar at that, who first won in the primary, then the general.

Speaking as a Trump supporter, I supported him in the 2016 election because I became convinced by election night that he would follow through on the promises he made when he tapped into a populist conservative movement`that started in 2010. He has largely followed through. That's why I still support him. I am sick and tired of establishment republicans who tout the republican platform when running for re-election and then toss it aside afterwards.


He failed on the repeal of Obamacare, but those angry Republicans, Trump supporters blamed that on the Republican congress.

No, actually he did not fail on the repeal of Obamacare. The late Senator John McCain tanked it out of spite for Trump. had McCain voted in favor of the repeal, it would have passed.

The wall is different. I think they, Trump supporters look at it differently also. This is their man in a championship bout, defending the belt he won back in 2016. A defeated champion doesn't have the same aura that a non-defeated champion once had. He can be beaten.

It all depends on how he fights for the wall. If Trump simply surrenders his quest for the wall, then his supporters will turn on him. However if he does everything in his constitutional power to get it done, then his supporters will blame others...primarily Nancy Dementia and Chuckie Schumer.

You're probably right, Trump probably would retain most of his supporters. A lot of them would be disappointed in him for caving or losing the fight. Some would slink back into the background. Waiting for another hero to come forth. There probably wouldn't be that high energy support for him from them.

Your mistake is that you are attempting to make this solely about Trump. Trump is merely the presidential candidate who tapped into the populist movement that started in 2010. The movement itself does not solely depend on Trump. And the movement is not restricted to the US. A populist movement is also going on in Europe. That was the motivation for Brexit The globalist movement that had been going on for decades is rapidly losing steam. The populist movement is picking up steam, both in the US and Europe for similar reasons Don't believe me? Ask Angela Merkel of Germany. She is becoming one of the first European casualties.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Yep.
 
Give me a name that can fill the vacuum that Donald would leave in his wake.

I'm not a White Nationalist fan so I honestly have no idea. But we're discussing Trump here. Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I can't imagine it would be hard to find another racist Nationalist to throw the base red meat.
 
McConnell doesn't cover for Trump here and he gets primaried by a Trumper when he tries to run in 2020. McConnell has to choose between keeping his job and doing what's right for the country. If I were him and there was a bill to stop this that had 60 votes, I'd bring it to the floor. McConnell is old, and he's rich. What is he screwing the country in the name of Trump for???

60 votes would not be enough to override a presidential veto. And they would not get 60 votes anyway. Have you forgotten which party controls the Senate?
 
OK so I guess I will have to give in and provide some names myself for a Trump replacement or at least a decent imitation.

Though he would have to throw over his boss much like the way Bannon tried to throw Trump over in order to catch the wave its probably Steven Miller. I have not been real impressed with him under the klieg lights but he is only 33. So he is too young now anyway and maybe he will season some. Other than him, Corey Lowendowki who is 45 years old but is really easy to bring to a boil. He is going to end up pulling a Captain Queeg from the movie The Caine Mutiny if he ever gets into a real political contest with him as the actual candidate. He will end up leaving 75% of the country with their jaws down around their knees in this really awkward pregnant pause like "did I really see what I just saw" and that would be the end of Corey's political career as a candidate unless we have an office called Pit Bull for Corey to run at.
 
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I stand by what I said. If not for her handlers....Nancy would just sit there and mumble incoherently.

At this point, you are stand more IN what you said than by it. Usually, when digging holes, once its over your head, you should stop digging.

All you are doing now is admitting that Trump is getting bested by what you have basically called a blithering idiot. Not exactly a ringing endorsement there.
 
In the eyes of partisan libruls like yourself, maybe, however it is Nancy who is looking stupid fighting Trump over the same issue that Schumer, Hillary, and even Obama helped pass in 2006.

Actually, Trump pretty much makes himself look childish with his own tweets. Pelosi is just making him look like a fool who doesn't know how to negotiate with other adults.
 
You are flat making the last part of that up in your own mind. Where do you get the veto proof margin nonsense from? I doubt they would even pass in the senate. Have you personally polled the republicans? At this point, chances are nearly 100% that they would support Trump on this one. Nancy can pass a million bills in the House and they will not become law unless they include funding for the border wall.

We'll see.


McConnell is wise. With a partial government shutdown going on, he is not going to waste time bringing bills to a floor vote that he knows will not only fail to pass in the Senate when Trump will not sign them into law. Your claim of a veto proof margin is pure fantasy.

IF what you say is true, then McConnell is simply providing cover for those republican senators who must face the voters in 2020. Individually, they cannot afford to be on record as voting against bills to open the government. As of now they can go back to their constituents and claim they did everything they personally could to re-open the government. The only question is, will their constituents buy it?

Again, that is a BIG IF. I think that as election time draws nearer, the GOP senators are going to feel the heat more and more. McConnell could personally be responsible for the GOP losing the senate.


Trump has been budging all over the place on the wall since taking office. He started out wanting 25 billion.....and at one point was willing to accept as low as 1.6 billion. Do you think 1.6 billion or 5.6 billion is 100% of 25 million? Sounds like fuzzy math.

They sent him a bill with $1.6 billion for border security. He didn't sign it because there was no wall. Caught McConnell off guard on that one. That was the number Mulvaney mentioned when Trump went off on him. Those two won't make that mistake again.

If he gets wall funding, he would almost certainly go further with that offer. Trump is negotiating in good faith, ...

Now who's having fantasies? You obviously didn't read "Art of the Deal." Pelosi and I have. How do you think Trump was able to build so many buildings and projects and then stiff his contractors? Good faith? The man doesn't know the meaning of that phrase.

I am fine with the US Constitution. Unlike you, I understand it past the partisan politics you like to inject.

Here we are having a fairly adult conversation, and when you run out of bullets, you throw this crap out. You feel good about it? You like to hurl insults as if that somehow bolsters your position? Well, it doesn't. And if it happens again in a post directed at me, it will be the last time I will respond to you. Now grow up.
 
Trump is in the OP. You focus.

That is irrelevant... the thread is about Pelosi winning... that is the topic... who she is winning against is not the topic... what the person does that she is winning against is irrelevant.
 
Do you always need to lie or mischaracterize what people said in order to make an argument?

You are new here and your debating sucks... but I will give you another chance or two before I make a final decision... you can start by actually proving your case and showing how I lied... since I did not you will look foolish and that is alright... but at least you will not look lazy...
 
60 votes would not be enough to override a presidential veto. And they would not get 60 votes anyway. Have you forgotten which party controls the Senate?

The last continuing resolution the Senate voted on passed 100-0 and it had no funding for any wall.

I am pretty sure 100-0 is veto-proof
 
That is irrelevant... the thread is about Pelosi winning... that is the topic... who she is winning against is not the topic... what the person does that she is winning against is irrelevant.
Yeah, just because the name of the guy she is winning against is in the title of the thread, and is talked about in the article and the op, that does not mean the thread has anything to do with him.
 
McConnell really has a problem as we edge closer and closer to people realizing that Trump is demanding Constitutional Collapse. Is that what Mitch wants his legacy to be, the destruction of our carefully cobbled three legged system of checks and balances? He does not have enough years left even to live to get over that one and every day edges us closer to people understanding what is really going on here.

McConnell seems crazy to me at this point. Does he even have a conscience?
 
60 votes would not be enough to override a presidential veto. And they would not get 60 votes anyway. Have you forgotten which party controls the Senate?

I know all of that. The question is whether all of the repubs in the senate will go through the year with the government closed over Trump's, well, actually it's Coulter/Hannity/Limbaugh's little piece of wall.

This was the donald's take on the border emergency as of 12/20/18:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight. Fake News silent!

101K
7:39 AM - Dec 20, 2018

What changed? LOL.
 
She is about defeating anything Trump first...

By agreeing with Congressional Republicans who also did not want Trumps wall. Why do you think he waited for the Dem majority to start this extortion?

The USA TODAY Network asked the 534 members of the House and Senate whether they support the $1.6 billion down payment approved by the House and found fewer than 25% of Republicans willing to stand up for the plan.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/20/trump-border-wall-survey-congress-republicans-billions/640196001/
 
By agreeing with Congressional Republicans who also did not want Trumps wall. Why do you think he waited for the Dem majority to start this extortion?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/20/trump-border-wall-survey-congress-republicans-billions/640196001/

Yep... Which is why McConnell didn't allow these House bills to be brought up for a vote last year, or now. He knows the REPUBLICAN Senate will pass them, and that would be a nightmare for the GOP.. Imagine McConnell trying to explain to the rabid Republican base that all these years the GOP has been lying to them, that the GOP really wants the border open to appease their business and Corps. donors who love immigrants.
 
Wrong. It's about winning for trump and the republicans. Why do people try to keep blaming the democrats too, they didn't shut down the government? I am also an old boomer.

Trump is a spoiled brat having a temper tantrum because he didn't get his way. I don't want a King, president for life or a dictator. If they cave, we will have one of those. I'm a baby boomer too. He cares nothing for the climate - nothing for our parks - nothing but money for him. He needs to go.
 
Not sure that the term progressive (or what they stand for) existed in the 60's and 70's. Winning is the political game for both sides. What winning means differs on the topic.

Only lemming partisans on either side believes only the "other" team is interested in winning while their team cares about the country.

Normally I would agree - not this time.
 
Speaking as a Trump supporter, I supported him in the 2016 election because I became convinced by election night that he would follow through on the promises he made when he tapped into a populist conservative movement`that started in 2010. He has largely followed through. That's why I still support him. I am sick and tired of establishment republicans who tout the republican platform when running for re-election and then toss it aside afterwards.





Your mistake is that you are attempting to make this solely about Trump. Trump is merely the presidential candidate who tapped into the populist movement that started in 2010. The movement itself does not solely depend on Trump. And the movement is not restricted to the US. A populist movement is also going on in Europe. That was the motivation for Brexit The globalist movement that had been going on for decades is rapidly losing steam. The populist movement is picking up steam, both in the US and Europe for similar reasons Don't believe me? Ask Angela Merkel of Germany. She is becoming one of the first European casualties.



Yep.

Did the establish Republicans toss the what you call the republican platform aside? During Obama they didn't have the numbers to accomplish much. That is outside of stopping legislation Obama wanted for his last six years. Politics is a numbers game quite a lot of the time. There were over 300 bills the GOP house passed that Reid tabled between 2011-14. Whether establishment Republicans or what I assume you call populist Republicans, nothing either could do about that. Even after the GOP gained the senate in the election of 2014, it still required 60 votes for cloture. 2/3rds to over ride an Obama veto in both chambers. The numbers weren't there. There was in reality no reason to get mad or angry at the republicans in congress.

Creating feuds has been a Trump forte. He started one with McCain, the Bush's, plenty of others. My dislike for Trump goes back to when he trashed our POW's and then did the same to a gold star family for political reasons. I will support him on issues I'm for, oppose him on issues I'm against, but I'll never support the man or vote for him.

Yes, that is more or less what I thought when it comes to Trump supporters and the wall. Trump received 46% of the vote in 2016 against a nag of a candidate, the most inept candidate I can remember or seen. The laziest for sure. Trump was popular and a populist to a large segment of the Republican Party. Not so much with independents. Trump did win the independent vote 46-42 over Hillary with 12% voting third party against both candidates. One could look on those figures as stating 54% voted against Trump while 58% voted against Hillary. I classify 2016 as the anti election, an election where most voted for the candidate they least wanted to lose.

Trump won. He had the best election strategy. But since then his unsavory behavior, his antics, obnoxious personality has caused independents to desert his populist ship if you would like to call it that. You seen this in the vote total, 42% of independents voting for Democrat Hillary in 2016, 54% of independents voting for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018. You seen it in Trump favorable/unfavorable numbers among independents, 44% favorable, 41% unfavorable on inauguration day for Trump. Close to the same voter support he received on election day. To a drop to 35% favorable, 54% unfavorable today among independents.

That is strange when one considers as far as Trump's policies independents support some, are against some, pretty well split as they are on the wall. Usually if independents are split on policy and issue stances, they are close to being evenly divided in the favorable/unfavorable and job approval/disapproval numbers. they're not. I think it is Trump's personality, name calling, etc. that has driven them away. Much more than policy or what he has done or didn't do.

I really don't believe the so called Trump populist within the GOP see how his unpresidential antics, behavior, his in your face style has led him to be very unpopular. I'm talking independents here, not Democrats which we all know really, really dislike him. If Trump wants to be more than just a one term president, he needs to find a way to win back support of the independents he once had. Just playing to his populist base, perhaps 35-40% of the total electorate isn't going to take him far. 2020 might be much worst than 2018. we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Yeah, just because the name of the guy she is winning against is in the title of the thread, and is talked about in the article and the op, that does not mean the thread has anything to do with him.

Exactly it could have something to do with them but in this case it doesn't
 
Yep... Which is why McConnell didn't allow these House bills to be brought up for a vote last year, or now. He knows the REPUBLICAN Senate will pass them, and that would be a nightmare for the GOP.. Imagine McConnell trying to explain to the rabid Republican base that all these years the GOP has been lying to them, that the GOP really wants the border open to appease their business and Corps. donors who love immigrants.

LOL The border is far from open and even Trump won't call for making E-verify mandatory. He's the real phony. He is using this wall fiasco to hold on to his reactionary base and that does not mean he won't still be hiring all the illegals he can get away with at his businesses. Trump loves illegals when they save him money too. He knows his wall won't stop them from coming either.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/politics/trump-bedminster-club-undocumented-workers/index.html
 
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