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Nancy Caves

I understand every bit of that. Still, you're better than this ugly ageist and sexist crap.

I try to be, but being 70 myself, I'm treating her as a peer. Were I in her shoes, I wouldn't view this as an opportunity to extort the public. I don't believe many would.
 
Except that it is illegal. All bills concerning appropriations must originate in the House, not the Senate. The Senate may amend the appropriation bill the House originates, but the Senate may not originate any appropriation bill. That is a power that is conferred only to the House of Representatives by the US Constitution.

Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 of the US Constitution:

What part of "raising revenue" do you not understand? What part of "the Senate may propose" do you not understand?

There is nothing illegal about what is happening.
 
What part of "raising revenue" do you not understand? What part of "the Senate may propose" do you not understand?

There is nothing illegal about what is happening.

Obviously you are incapable of comprehending that "raising revenue" and "appropriations" are synonymous. Furthermore, nowhere does the US Constitution say "the Senate may propose" raising revenue/appropriations. However, the Senate may "amend" the appropriation bill the House originated. You must be reading your fantasy version of the US Constitution, again.

All bills that involves any form of spending must originate with the House of Representatives. If the Senate originates a spending bill, it violates the US Constitution and is illegal.
 
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Obviously you are incapable of comprehending that "raising revenue" and "appropriations" are synonymous. Furthermore, nowhere does the US Constitution say "the Senate may propose" raising revenue/appropriations. However, the Senate may "amend" the appropriation bill the House originated. You must be reading your fantasy version of the US Constitution, again.

All bills that involves any form of spending must originate with the House of Representatives. If the Senate originates a spending bill, it violates the US Constitution and is illegal.

Raising revenue is getting money. Appropriations is spending money. Hardly "synonymous".

As far as what the Constitution says, I quoted what YOU said the Constitution says. Make up your mind, eh?
 
Raising revenue is getting money. Appropriations is spending money. Hardly "synonymous".

As far as what the Constitution says, I quoted what YOU said the Constitution says. Make up your mind, eh?

Since you are obviously educationally challenged, I will provide you with the definition:

appropriation
noun
ap·​pro·​pri·​a·​tion | \ ə-ˌprō-prē-ˈā-shən

1 : an act or instance of appropriating something
2 : something that has been appropriated specifically : money set aside by formal action for a specific use the city's appropriation for schools

You quoted yourself, not anything I ever said and certainly nothing from the US Constitution. You just made it up out of thin air.
 
I don't think you quite got the point.

It's not "the stuff" that chaps the liberal's ass, it's Nancy GIVING UP on the stuff.

I think you left a slew of stuff off your list, like $15 minimum wage, USPS debt forgiveness, election rules and a whole lot more that has absolutely nothing to do with economic aid.

It's that liberal agenda stuff...and the blowback for putting it into her bill...that forced her to cave.

They didn't think they would get that. Do you ****ing know anything about negotiation?
 
Since you are obviously educationally challenged, I will provide you with the definition:

appropriation
noun
ap·​pro·​pri·​a·​tion | \ ə-ˌprō-prē-ˈā-shən

1 : an act or instance of appropriating something
2 : something that has been appropriated specifically : money set aside by formal action for a specific use the city's appropriation for schools

You quoted yourself, not anything I ever said and certainly nothing from the US Constitution. You just made it up out of thin air.

Just stop dude. Mycroft has been correct and have been wrong.
Revenue is not appropriations and is no way synonymous with it.

In law and government, appropriation is the act of setting apart something for its application to a particular usage, to the exclusion of all other uses. It typically refers to the legislative designation of money for particular uses, in the context of a budget or spending bill.


Appropriation (law) - Wikipedia
 
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This is the government coming to the aid of all/majority it's citizens, not a select few, and is under a different set of circumstances that warrarnt it.

So...an impoverished family with an income of $20,000 a year is not in need of government assistance, but $80,000 families who can't buy toilet paper is in need of government assistance? And you argue that this assistance is fine because this is not normal times? You've merely joined those who were already in need of government assistance. Your spin is illogical.

Only in your illogical thoughts.
This is not normal times. This is a nation in need.

This is a nation that all of sudden wants government assistance. You have merely joined those who were already in need of it. But this is different because you need toilet paper? This is busted ideology.

Though, I have no problem if the gov made it means tested as all those sucking off the gov teat

There's that whining about an exaggerated issue. For every individual sucking the teat, you can also name a dozen who are legit.

Your argument carries no weight. The circumstances are different.

Yes, you need toilet paper and government assistance. I, however, don't need the assistance at all. Perhaps you should just find a better job. Right?

Why you choose to address this to me when I haven't discussed this just goes to show how off the beaten path your current thoughts are.

Because it is a part of the same hypocrisy of the times. The spinning is comical.

Lame nonsense.
Assistance to all businesses. Big or small.

Even those who don't pay taxes. So much for the idea of a free market and the idea that government does not belong in private business. Apparently, capitalism and the free market are matters of convenience. More busted ideology.

Clearly you were and your ideology is standing in your way of understanding.

Understanding the uber hypocrisy? My ideology sways with the facts. I do not spin the facts to fit an ideology. Try it sometime. It is quite liberating not having to cater to what is illogical at any given moment.
 
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Since you are obviously educationally challenged, I will provide you with the definition:

appropriation
noun
ap·​pro·​pri·​a·​tion | \ ə-ˌprō-prē-ˈā-shən

1 : an act or instance of appropriating something
2 : something that has been appropriated specifically : money set aside by formal action for a specific use the city's appropriation for schools

You quoted yourself, not anything I ever said and certainly nothing from the US Constitution. You just made it up out of thin air.

That money (revenue) has to be raised (House action) before it can be appropriated (spent)
 
Just stop dude. Mycroft has been correct and have been wrong.
Revenue is not appropriations and is no way synonymous with it.

In law and government, appropriation is the act of setting apart something for its application to a particular usage, to the exclusion of all other uses. It typically refers to the legislative designation of money for particular uses, in the context of a budget or spending bill.


Appropriation (law) - Wikipedia

All bills for raising revenues are appropriations bills. Before 2000 Congress use to pass 12 (13 if you count DC) appropriation bills that constituted the federal budget. They are still called appropriation bills, but the constitutionally irresponsible House (both when under Democrat and Republican control) has flat out refused to pass all 12 appropriation bills since FY1999. All they pass now to fund the federal government are Continuing Resolutions, Omnibus, and Supplemental Spending bills, and typically with a veto-proof majority to prevent the President from vetoing them.
 
They didn't think they would get that. Do you ****ing know anything about negotiation?

Then she wasted her time and political capital.

The Senate Dems and Reps were already in negotiations. Nancy's stunt did nothing to further negotiations. It just got a lot of people pissed off at her.
 
I understand every bit of that. Still, you're better than this ugly ageist and sexist crap.

Okay. Here I am at my drawing board, trying to draw up a piece of furniture, and the fruit rollups are on my mind. I shouldn't have said the dentures and fruit roll ups thing. I feel terrible. Okay, not entirely abominable, but reasonably despicable. I'm gonna try to think of epoxy and muffins for a bit.
 
I try to be, but being 70 myself, I'm treating her as a peer. Were I in her shoes, I wouldn't view this as an opportunity to extort the public. I don't believe many would.

And I agree with that too. Just not the low fruit roll-up remark.
 
All bills for raising revenues are appropriations bills. Before 2000 Congress use to pass 12 (13 if you count DC) appropriation bills that constituted the federal budget. They are still called appropriation bills, but the constitutionally irresponsible House (both when under Democrat and Republican control) has flat out refused to pass all 12 appropriation bills since FY1999. All they pass now to fund the federal government are Continuing Resolutions, Omnibus, and Supplemental Spending bills, and typically with a veto-proof majority to prevent the President from vetoing them.

You were already corrected several times.
Just stop.
Again.

Revenue is not appropriations and is no way synonymous with it.

In law and government, appropriation is the act of setting apart something for its application to a particular usage, to the exclusion of all other uses. It typically refers to the legislative designation of money for particular uses, in the context of a budget or spending bill.


Appropriation (law) - Wikipedia
 
So...an impoverished family with an income of $20,000 a year is not in need of government assistance, but $80,000 families who can't buy toilet paper is in need of government assistance? And you argue that this assistance is fine because this is not normal times? You've merely joined those who were already in need of government assistance. Your spin is illogical.
As you were already told your ideology gets in the way of you seeing reality.
Apparently it also causes you to make arguments against things that were not said.




This is a nation that all of sudden wants government assistance. You have merely joined those who were already in need of it. But this is different because you need toilet paper? This is busted ideology.
Wrong. Your understanding of what is occurring is deeply flawed.
Your lack of understanding how things are different is troubling to say the least.




There's that whining about an exaggerated issue. For every individual sucking the teat, you can also name a dozen who are legit.
Like those who earned it as part of a contractual obligation? Sure.




Yes, you need toilet paper and government assistance. I, however, don't need the assistance at all. Perhaps you should just find a better job. Right?
A nonsensical reply.


Because it is a part of the same hypocrisy of the times. The spinning is comical.
Besides being wrong, and unable to see reality for what it is, that spin is all in your own thoughts.


Even those who don't pay taxes. So much for the idea of a free market and the idea that government does not belong in private business. Apparently, capitalism and the free market are matters of convenience. More busted ideology.
Again you fail to understand that things are different at this time.


Understanding the uber hypocrisy? My ideology sways with the facts. I do not spin the facts to fit an ideology. Try it sometime. It is quite liberating not having to cater to what is illogical at any given moment.
:lamo No. Your ideology clearly clouds your views.
FFS, you can't even understand that things are different at this time.

Your whole position is just stupid and should be laughed at by everyone.
 
Linc said:
trump is caving to the virus

I like to think that he caved to whatever shoved his ego aside. This being the case, its one of the few times over the last three years that Trump finally demonstrated proper presidential leadership. It all goes back to whether or not he allows his fragile ego to trump reality. <----See what I did there?

Wherever did you get that? Is it in the DNC message that no one but you has read?

What?! Reality showed this. You witnessed this just like everybody else did:

- For three months all Trump did was deny it's spread while blaming the media and Democrats for just trying to hurt his re-election bid. This was even as foreign governments were quarantining entire towns and running out of supplies. He actually visited a crisis center in a re-election campaign hat. In the meantime, Democrats are on record for trying to urge Trump to declare an emergency.

- This culminated in Trump making a very boneheaded evening speech of denial on March 11, in which the stock market, which was already looking for a meltdown, threw-up all over itself the next day.

- Then, literally over night, Trump issued an emergency order and sought assistance from Pelosi's Democrats who had already created an aid package. During that speech, he refused to acknowledge that health officials, Democrats, the media, foreign governments, and international organizations were right all along. He merely put an USA hat and paraded around as the great leader.

Trying to argue that Trump did not cave is horribly wrong. This sort of blind support is why you people gave him glory during his complacency phase and didn't skip a beat on your way to glorifying him when he flipped over night. This cult-like mentality is exactly why we have a President like this.
 
As you were already told your ideology gets in the way of you seeing reality.

You don't even know my ideology. I'm a bit all over the map, because I am a historian. I'm not really allowed a shallow ideology to cling to. But what I do believe comes from facts, not an exaggerated idea of something that is not thought through and relies on a perversion of facts to exist. For example:

- Americans were screwed in the 1930s after our politicians and capitalist messed up the economy. Along came FDR and the New Deal to inject some confidence in the capitalist and democratic system. Then a wartime economy snapped its finger. But for decades since the 1930s, Republican conservatives attacked and attacked the existence of the New Deal until they could eventually partner with a Democrat (Clinton) to dismantle Glass-Steagall. Government wrecked the economy again, ushering in great hardship upon tax-payers. Government then issued bail-outs to the very banks and corporations that were freed to wreck the economy in the first place. Then Americans went on to continue to complain about socialism and bailouts as if they understood what the word even meant, until today. Now, because "times are different" we want to call government aid anything but the socialism that it is. Feeling hypocritical?

You are merely trying to preserve your busted ideology by re-defining what government aid is. Socialism comes with a definition. As does reality.

Like those who earned it as part of a contractual obligation? Sure.

- Don't fall for the GOP lie that payroll and state taxes don't matter, only federal taxes do. If it comes out of their paychecks, the government is holding their money. The funny thing is that now when they argue that the poor don't pay federal taxes, they ignore the fact that hooked up billion dollar cor[orations so that they don't have to either. Of course, while telling the poor American to work harder, they will offer those corporations bailouts...won't they?

- As for the homeless, whether of choice or of mental instability, meh. You have hundred billion dollar corporations paying zero taxes to a government that already provides tax subsidies, bail-outs, and a deployed military to protect their assets. Why should I care that one of my fellow Americans needs some soup and a band-aid?

A nonsensical reply.

Is it? The tired argument about impoverished Americans is that they should just get another job. But in these times, well-to-do Americans are in need so government should step in and step far. I'm not the one not making sense because his ideologies are showing its cracks. Socialism is socialism. The word and act does not depend on a person's idea of the times.

Besides being wrong, and unable to see reality for what it is, that spin is all in your own thoughts.

Socialism has a definition. It is the same no matter your idea of reality.

Again you fail to understand that things are different at this time.

Doesn't matter. Government aid is government aid. The time makes no different. It only changes the fact that now you need it, whereas before you did not. People who lose their jobs receive unemployment. Not because they needed it then, but because they need now. The time they need it does not change what it is.

:lamo No. Your ideology clearly clouds your views.
FFS, you can't even understand that things are different at this time.

Your whole position is just stupid and should be laughed at by everyone.

The problem is that most people, actually exercise their brains. What you see as stupid is just your inability to cope with words that you have long denigrated as somebody else's "political" problem. Now that you seek government assistance you need such words and government activity it to mean something else, less you be a hypocrite.
 
So...an impoverished family with an income of $20,000 a year is not in need of government assistance, but $80,000 families who can't buy toilet paper is in need of government assistance? And you argue that this assistance is fine because this is not normal times? You've merely joined those who were already in need of government assistance. Your spin is illogical.



This is a nation that all of sudden wants government assistance. You have merely joined those who were already in need of it. But this is different because you need toilet paper? This is busted ideology.



There's that whining about an exaggerated issue. For every individual sucking the teat, you can also name a dozen who are legit.



Yes, you need toilet paper and government assistance. I, however, don't need the assistance at all. Perhaps you should just find a better job. Right?



Because it is a part of the same hypocrisy of the times. The spinning is comical.



Even those who don't pay taxes. So much for the idea of a free market and the idea that government does not belong in private business. Apparently, capitalism and the free market are matters of convenience. More busted ideology.



Understanding the uber hypocrisy? My ideology sways with the facts. I do not spin the facts to fit an ideology. Try it sometime. It is quite liberating not having to cater to what is illogical at any given moment.

Why is an impoverished family only making 20,000? Poorly educated, poor choices, poorly trained? The relief bill is for helping correct a problem caused by the Coronavirus and not someones lack of ambition or hard work.
 
[SUP]You don't even know my ideology. I'm a bit all over the map, because I am a historian. I'm not really allowed a shallow ideology to cling to. But what I do believe comes from facts, not an exaggerated idea of something that is not thought through and relies on a perversion of facts to exist. For example:

- Americans were screwed in the 1930s after our politicians and capitalist messed up the economy. Along came FDR and the New Deal to inject some confidence in the capitalist and democratic system. Then a wartime economy snapped its finger. But for decades since the 1930s, Republican conservatives attacked and attacked the existence of the New Deal until they could eventually partner with a Democrat (Clinton) to dismantle Glass-Steagall. Government wrecked the economy again, ushering in great hardship upon tax-payers. Government then issued bail-outs to the very banks and corporations that were freed to wreck the economy in the first place. Then Americans went on to continue to complain about socialism and bailouts as if they understood what the word even meant, until today. Now, because "times are different" we want to call government aid anything but the socialism that it is. Feeling hypocritical?

You are merely trying to preserve your busted ideology by re-defining what government aid is. Socialism comes with a definition. As does reality.



- Don't fall for the GOP lie that payroll and state taxes don't matter, only federal taxes do. If it comes out of their paychecks, the government is holding their money. The funny thing is that now when they argue that the poor don't pay federal taxes, they ignore the fact that hooked up billion dollar cor[orations so that they don't have to either. Of course, while telling the poor American to work harder, they will offer those corporations bailouts...won't they?

- As for the homeless, whether of choice or of mental instability, meh. You have hundred billion dollar corporations paying zero taxes to a government that already provides tax subsidies, bail-outs, and a deployed military to protect their assets. Why should I care that one of my fellow Americans needs some soup and a band-aid?



Is it? The tired argument about impoverished Americans is that they should just get another job. But in these times, well-to-do Americans are in need so government should step in and step far. I'm not the one not making sense because his ideologies are showing its cracks. Socialism is socialism. The word and act does not depend on a person's idea of the times.



Socialism has a definition. It is the same no matter your idea of reality.



Doesn't matter. Government aid is government aid. The time makes no different. It only changes the fact that now you need it, whereas before you did not. People who lose their jobs receive unemployment. Not because they needed it then, but because they need now. The time they need it does not change what it is.



The problem is that most people, actually exercise their brains. What you see as stupid is just your inability to cope with words that you have long denigrated as somebody else's "political" problem. Now that you seek government assistance you need such words and government activity it to mean something else, less you be a hypocrite.[/SUP]
Wrong as usual. It is your ideology blinding you to reality and the fact that things are different right now.
.
 
Why is an impoverished family only making 20,000? Poorly educated, poor choices, poorly trained? The relief bill is for helping correct a problem caused by the Coronavirus and not someones lack of ambition or hard work.

Because that's what some jobs pay? College kids working at StarBucks should just quit? A median McDonald's U.S. employee earning $7,473 annually is taking home just 24% of the U.S. average annual disposable income of $30,563. Doesn't matter anyway.

- In 2018, I paid 30% taxes on near $240,000. Thus, I do not need government assistance. If you and others do, perhaps a poor education, poor choices, and poor training are to blame. After all, how have I set myself up for such crises, and you have not? My taxes are supposed to help you? Didn't you already get your tax refund? Are you not working hard enough?

Your accusation that people who work low paid jobs don't work hard is more of the same nonsense. But here you and others are, looking for that same government assistance you enjoy mocking. Just work harder.
 
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Wrong as usual. It is your ideology blinding you to reality and the fact that things are different right now.
.

Certainly, there's a High School student in your neighborhood that you might ask for help:

- The guy who had a job yesterday, but not today, somehow doesn't qualify as different? Unemployment and welfare makes him a drag on society? Because you weren't in need, he should just work harder?

Your argument about how a situation is not socialism, simply because they are different today for you, is absolutely retarded. You are just one of the ones who want that assistance today, but whined about socialism yesterday, thus you seek to re-define the word so as to protect yourself from the clear hypocrisy.

And once again, you have no idea what ideologies I hold. I have presented none. You are simply deflecting because you don't know what to do with your frustration. You are clearly wrong and stumbling about to legitimatize the government handout.
 
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I recall that you posted that same block of garbage in another thread. I pointed out to you then that not a single link you posted had anything in any of them that were Coronavirus or China travel related. In fact none of them even mention "coronavirus" or "China". And not one of them had any Democrat criticizing the President's travel 'restrictions' to and from China. Not a 'ban'. Although they probably should've because 300,000 people were still permitted to travel to and from China and US under it. All of the democratic critiques in them were about a previous completely unrelated travel ban. So here we have 300,000 traveling to and from China and you go post some inane article about some half dozen alleged Chinese nationals attempting to cross our Southern border. Sorry, but I just don't suffer that kind of stupidity well. Especially when served a second round of it.

I think you need to inform yourself better.

All the came across from your screed here is 'I don't like your facts so you are wrong'. :shrug:

Continue on.
 
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