Muslims - Jesus was not crucified?

[Bodi]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

 

[Riveroaks]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

Are you going to watch the GOP debates tonight ??

 

[Bodi]

Are you going to watch the GOP debates tonight ??

Wasn't planning on it... it is the same old rhetoric. I might tune in as I am packing for background chatter and see if anything interesting develops.

 

[Riveroaks]

Wasn't planning on it... it is the same old rhetoric. I might tune in as I am packing for background chatter and see if anything interesting develops.

Should be a great debate.

This is the last one for the GOP.

Trump, Cruz, and Rubio have emerged as the 3 frontrunners.

Of those 3 I had correctly guessed Rubio early on.

Trump and Cruz have surprised me.

 

[_Sal]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

if he was immortal and couldn't die why did Allah make a stand in

I am kind of missing their point.

I know they think Christ was a prophet but a prophet is not immortal.

 

[Bodi]

if he was immortal and couldn't die why did Allah make a stand in

I am kind of missing their point.

I know they think Christ was a prophet but a prophet is not immortal.

I am new to this whole line of thinking/religion. I knew about the prophet part too but not that he was not crucified.

 

[Riveroaks]

if he was immortal and couldn't die why did Allah make a stand in

I am kind of missing their point.

I know they think Christ was a prophet but a prophet is not immortal.

If you read the Quran it is just one long rant.

Not very original.

Nothing particularly divine or inspiring about it.

Does not even compare closely with Buddhism or Hinduism.

Infinitely inferior to the Hebrew Old Testament or the Greek New Testament -- infinitely.

 

[Mr Person]

If you read the Quran it is just one long rant.

Not very original.

Nothing particularly divine or inspiring about it.

Does not even compare closely with Buddhism or Hinduism.

Infinitely inferior to the Hebrew Old Testament or the Greek New Testament -- infinitely.

Well, he did write the thing inbetween trying to convince others to accept that he was the prophet, whilst campaigning against his own people and later the tattered residue of the Western Roman Empire.

Ceasar was much better at writing between battles.

 

[_Sal]

I am new to this whole line of thinking/religion. I knew about the prophet part too but not that he was not crucified.

me neither, and if he was not crucified, why not

as far as I know he is one of their respected prophets

 

[dimensionallava]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

is this a question?

 

[X Factor]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

Ok, this really is no big deal. I'm Christian because of what I believe. I sure don't believe in well, anything in the Quran so I'd no more expect a non-Christian to view Jesus Christ the way I do, as I could be expected to believe what non-Christians do. All religions will find other religions problematic.

 

[ludin]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

there are several problems with this.

1. Jesus was mortal. He was both God and Man, however He was still a mortal and could suffer the same injuries as anyone else.
2. This was falsified by the people that saw him after this crucifixion and they saw the nail and the spear injuries.

3. The crucifixion of Christ lasted as long as Christ needed it to last. He had the ability to lay down his own life and take it up again.
Father into your hands I commend my Spirit and then he died.

 

[Bodi]

is this a question?

Not really... just a topic starter for something I found interesting.

 

[Grand Mal]

I am new to this whole line of thinking/religion. I knew about the prophet part too but not that he was not crucified.

Muslims reject the whole idea that God would allow one of His to be treated so badly.
They also say that Christ spoke as an infant. I doubt that they buy the immaculate conception, though.

 

[dimensionallava]

Muslims reject the whole idea that God would allow one of His to be treated so badly.
They also say that Christ spoke as an infant. I doubt that they buy the immaculate conception, though.

muslims beleive mary was a virgin, they just have a slighty different story, like theres no joseph or manger, but the quran still obsesses over mary and the virgin birth like christians do, the virgin mary is mentioned more than any other female character in the quran

 

[Grand Mal]

muslims beleive mary was a virgin, they just have a slighty different story, like theres no joseph or manger, but the quran still obsesses over mary and the virgin birth like christians do, the virgin mary is mentioned more than any other female character in the quran

Alright.
Thanks.

 

[nota bene]

muslims beleive mary was a virgin, they just have a slighty different story, like theres no joseph or manger, but the quran still obsesses over mary and the virgin birth like christians do, the virgin mary is mentioned more than any other female character in the quran

She's widely regarded as the most influential woman in human history.

The Virgin Mary - National Geographic Magazine

 

[Cryptic]

muslims beleive mary was a virgin, they just have a slighty different story, like theres no joseph or manger, but the quran still obsesses over mary and the virgin birth like christians do, the virgin mary is mentioned more than any other female character in the quran

The hadiths (apparently several versions exist) declare that the Virgin Mary was the most righteous woman to have ever lived. Even more so than Mohammad's wives.

 

[dani67]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158


There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

based on qoran
ما قتلوه و ما صلبوه و لكن شبه لهم ..... و ماقتلوه يقيناً nesa 157
i dont understand this arabic too but mean :
they never killed or crucified.
roma killed wrong person

 

[Logicman]

I had never heard this before:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

That's what Muhammad came up with in a cave, by himself, some 600 years after the event.

On the other hand, there's multiple, independent, first-century witnesses and others who confirm Jesus' death by crucifixion, and his resurrection. Take your pick which one you believe.

 

[mbig]

I had never heard this before:
...
There are claims that he was not crucified, that Allah made another look like Jesus and he was crucified, that the crucification did not take long enough for him to die and that Jesus is immortal so he could not have died.

Then you probably missed a few other claims just as big.

We oft hear about about 'Jesus being a prophet of Islam too', and it's still used for the same reason as 1400 years ago.
Early on, Mo tried mightily to convert Jews and others. He amalgamated the prophets of Christianity and Judaism into his new thing, which needed that wider appeal/credibility.

In fact, while Muslims believe he is the son of Mary, they believe he is Not the son of god (or god): that would be Blasphemy in Islam.
And many will gladly tell you we don't know a single word he said, due to the 'false chain and corruption that is the NT.' IOW, they "acknowledge" him as a prophet, but claim we don't know a word he said.
So it's tokenism.

 

[JANFU]

Then you probably missed a few other claims just as big.

We oft hear about about 'Jesus being a prophet of Islam too', and it's still used for the same reason as 1400 years ago.
Early on, Mo tried mightily to convert Jews and others. He amalgamated the prophets of Christianity and Judaism into his new thing, which needed that wider appeal/credibility.

In fact, while Muslims believe he is the son of Mary, they believe he is Not the son of god (or god): that would be Blasphemy in Islam.
And many will gladly tell you we don't know a single word he said, due to the 'false chain and corruption that is the NT.' IOW, they "acknowledge" him as a prophet, but claim we don't know a word he said.
So it's tokenism.

Muslims normally refer to one passage where, and I am going for memory, one would/ will come after / later. not sure of the wording or the passage.

 

[dimensionallava]

Then you probably missed a few other claims just as big.

We oft hear about about 'Jesus being a prophet of Islam too', and it's still used for the same reason as 1400 years ago.
Early on, Mo tried mightily to convert Jews and others. He amalgamated the prophets of Christianity and Judaism into his new thing, which needed that wider appeal/credibility.

In fact, while Muslims believe he is the son of Mary, they believe he is Not the son of god (or god): that would be Blasphemy in Islam.
And many will gladly tell you we don't know a single word he said, due to the 'false chain and corruption that is the NT.' IOW, they "acknowledge" him as a prophet, but claim we don't know a word he said.
So it's tokenism.

thats ridiculous theres alot of quotes in the quran that are supposed to be direct quotes of jesus and a long list of stories about his life, they are just slightly different from the new testament, one of his miracles was speaking as a newborn baby

He (Jesus) said: "Verily! I am a slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; and He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined me prayer, and Zakat, as long as I live, and dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)

 

[mbig]

thats ridiculous theres alot of quotes in the quran that are supposed to be direct quotes of jesus and a long list of stories about his life, they are just slightly different from the new testament, one of his miracles was speaking as a newborn baby....

1. So you have No disagreement with Most of the Biggies I posted: only the last sentence.
Your welcome! for the History lesson for which you cannot post ANY contrary claims.

2. You quoted Jesus from the Quran's view, Not from the NT.
ie
On the alleged corruption of the Bible
Is Islam correct? Is the Bible corrupt and untrustworthy? ? ChristianAnswers.Net
How do I respond to Muslims who claim the Bible is corrupt based on the textual issues of Mark 16:9-20, John 8:1-11 and I John 5:7-8? | Evidence for Christianity

 

[dimensionallava]

1. So you have No disagreement with Most of the Biggies I posted: only the last sentence.

the only correct statement you made in your last post was

In fact, while Muslims believe he is the son of Mary, they believe he is Not the son of god (or god): that would be Blasphemy in Islam.