Muhammad Ali was Right to Refuse Army Induction

[Fledermaus]

In a time of war, yes, but not to simply illegally invade sovereign peoples.

Notice how you all always talk about how these war crimes the US has committed affect the poor, hard done by Americans. Your governments slaughter millions and you, for all intents and purposes, support these vicious crimes.

Got that list of "70 nations" we supposedly invaded since 1945?

 

[Tigerace117]

He also took a deferment to go to harvard business school and his whole purpose of joining the alabama national guard was to avoid vietnam so that is draft dodging.

Buddy, the idea that you are draft dodging by joining the military is totally idiotic. You do realize that.....right? No “draft dodger” would have enlisted in the United States military if they were trying to avoid going to Vietnam. Hell, he even tried to join the National Guard’s system of sending pilots to Southeast Asia.

 

[Tigerace117]

Details, details...

“He dodged the draft by joining the military” is a rather amusing position. The sad thing is that “99percenter” doesn’t seem to comprehend the problems with his statements

 

[OldFatGuy]

“He dodged the draft by joining the military” is a rather amusing position. The sad thing is that “99percenter” doesn’t seem to comprehend the problems with his statements

Worked for me. I avoided the draft when I enlisted. Volunteered for MP training, next thing I knew, I was playing police in Saigon. And then out of Saigon, looking for bad guys in the bush. So much fun, and not a bit of a draft.

Back in Saigon, a day, met up with a bud from boot. He was working as postal delivery. We had a drink, a bite to eat, we left each other, about 50' away from him I turned to wave, and watched an 8-9 year old kid, couldn't determine if it was a boy or girl, stuff a grenade in my bud's pants. Blew him to hell. Myself and 3 other of our men used our sidearms on that kid. The 4 of us put at least 9 .45's into him or her in less than 5 seconds, still couldn't tell the gender after the damage. We were all a kid killer. A great day for each of us. I can still taste the bile in my mouth when I recall that day.

Anyone who avoided SE Asia, did the right thing, no matter how they did it.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Mohamed Ali allegedly said "No Viet Cong never called me a nigger."

Whether or not the Vietnam War was just or not, it's hard not to fault a man for not wanting to fight for a country that in many ways still treated him like a second class citizen.

 

[Gaea]

IMO - the only time a draft is easily justified is when the nation is under direct attack. So, I would say WW2 is the only war that it was reasonable to use the draft.

That said - I do think the USA should have gotten involved in WW2 sooner - just not with a draft until after Pearl Harbor.

 

[joG]

He could have claimed bone spurs....or have better things to do and become a dad. Ali spoke his truth and accepted the consequences.

Well, no he didn't face the consequences. He got off relatively light, if I recall.

But should a country whose young men are dying in battle let a sports star stay home, because he doesn't like the idea of going?

 

[joG]

We can't systemically condone breaking the law, but we can allow jury nullification. As least such is my opinion on the matter.

I do not think it very wise to allow the judiciary to rule that breaking the law is acceptable on a case by case basis.

 

[calamity]

I do not think it very wise to allow the judiciary to rule that breaking the law is acceptable on a case by case basis.

I do not think it very wise to allow the Congress to rule that breaking the law is acceptable on a Partisan basis.

 

[Tigerace117]

Worked for me. I avoided the draft when I enlisted. Volunteered for MP training, next thing I knew, I was playing police in Saigon. And then out of Saigon, looking for bad guys in the bush. So much fun, and not a bit of a draft.

Back in Saigon, a day, met up with a bud from boot. He was working as postal delivery. We had a drink, a bite to eat, we left each other, about 50' away from him I turned to wave, and watched an 8-9 year old kid, couldn't determine if it was a boy or girl, stuff a grenade in my bud's pants. Blew him to hell. Myself and 3 other of our men used our sidearms on that kid. The 4 of us put at least 9 .45's into him or her in less than 5 seconds, still couldn't tell the gender after the damage. We were all a kid killer. A great day for each of us. I can still taste the bile in my mouth when I recall that day.

Anyone who avoided SE Asia, did the right thing, no matter how they did it.

Wow. That's an intense story..........I've heard a lot about the Viet Cong using kid "soldiers" for attacks like that.

It's a lot different between actually going to Southeast Asia, or another posting in the military, vs running away to, say, Canada. I don't agree with Ali but at least he was willing to go to jail for his beliefs.

 

[99percenter]

Well, no he didn't face the consequences. He got off relatively light, if I recall.

But should a country whose young men are dying in battle let a sports star stay home, because he doesn't like the idea of going?

He didn't get of lightly at all. He went broke and was banned from doing what he was doing as a living.

 

[99percenter]

Buddy, the idea that you are draft dodging by joining the military is totally idiotic. You do realize that.....right? No “draft dodger” would have enlisted in the United States military if they were trying to avoid going to Vietnam. Hell, he even tried to join the National Guard’s system of sending pilots to Southeast Asia.

He joined the national guard to avoid combat. I don't know how else to put it. He also used a deferment to go to harvard business school. No different than clinton, cheney, or trump. If you don't get it then i dont think you ever will. I will leave you with your opinion.

 

[OldFatGuy]

IMO - That said - I do think the USA should have gotten involved in WW2 sooner - just not with a draft until after Pearl Harbor.

With what?

Year Army Navy Marines/US Coastguard National Guard Reserves
1939 189,839 125,202 19,432 226,837 104,228

The US military was smaller than the Portuguese Army. More the 70% of the US military was scattered at 172 foreign posts protecting American interests. Hawaii, Guam and Puerto Rico were listed as foreign posts. Citizens of all three were exempt from the draft. More than 1/3 of Puerto Rico's military aged male citizens enlisted.

More than 15.5 million American men were conscripted for WWII, total US Forces reached almost 20 million. Well thru early 1942 the nation as a whole objected to the draft despite Pearl Harbor and Hitler's Declaration of War. Many called it Roosevelt's War, and labeled FDR a Jew. A well known American politician, considering a run against FDR said "I didn't raise my boys to fight for a bunch of fat and drunk ukulele players who got bombed." Both his sons enlisted the next day.

With hindsight, viewing North Korea today, the Korean War justified the draft.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Wow. That's an intense story..........I've heard a lot about the Viet Cong using kid "soldiers" for attacks like that.

It's a lot different between actually going to Southeast Asia, or another posting in the military, vs running away to, say, Canada. I don't agree with Ali but at least he was willing to go to jail for his beliefs.

We used kid soldiers during the American Revolution and the Civil War (on both sides). Paul Revere's famous ride was really accomplished by three people, one a 13 year old girl. Revere's name made for a better poem.

I saw and did far worse.

Not that many ran to Canada. Far more stayed in college, got themselves an exempt job, or married and had a child to keep themselves out of the war and the draft.

 

[99percenter]

 

[OldFatGuy]

He joined the national guard to avoid combat. I don't know how else to put it. He also used a deferment to go to harvard business school. No different than clinton, cheney, or trump. If you don't get it then i dont think you ever will. I will leave you with your opinion.

National Guard troops were deployed in Vietnam. Luck of the draw. Thousands of regular Army and Marine units were deployed to Germany and other posts that never participated in SE Asia. Luck of the draw.

I'd be willing to wager, you don't do well at poker tables.

 

[99percenter]

National Guard troops were deployed in Vietnam. Luck of the draw. Thousands of regular Army and Marine units were deployed to Germany and other posts that never participated in SE Asia. Luck of the draw.

I'd be willing to wager, you don't do well at poker tables.

LOL. not bush. He made sure he wouldn't get drafted.

 

[LesGovt]

With what?

Year Army Navy Marines/US Coastguard National Guard Reserves
1939 189,839 125,202 19,432 226,837 104,228

The US military was smaller than the Portuguese Army. More the 70% of the US military was scattered at 172 foreign posts protecting American interests. Hawaii, Guam and Puerto Rico were listed as foreign posts. Citizens of all three were exempt from the draft. More than 1/3 of Puerto Rico's military aged male citizens enlisted.

More than 15.5 million American men were conscripted for WWII, total US Forces reached almost 20 million. Well thru early 1942 the nation as a whole objected to the draft despite Pearl Harbor and Hitler's Declaration of War. Many called it Roosevelt's War, and labeled FDR a Jew. A well known American politician, considering a run against FDR said "I didn't raise my boys to fight for a bunch of fat and drunk ukulele players who got bombed." Both his sons enlisted the next day.

With hindsight, viewing North Korea today, the Korean War justified the draft.

And North Korea may justify the draft again.

 

[Peter King]

Muhammad Ali was Right to Refuse Army Induction

"On April 28, 1967, boxing champion Muhammad Ali refuses to be inducted into the U.S. Army and is immediately stripped of his heavyweight title. Ali, a Muslim, cited religious reasons for his decision to forgo military service.

Born Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr., in Louisville, Kentucky, on January 14, 1942, the future three-time world champ changed his name to Muhammad Ali in 1964 after converting to Islam. He scored a gold medal at the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome and made his professional boxing debut against Tunney Husaker on October 29, 1960, winning the bout in six rounds. On February 25, 1964, he defeated the heavily favored bruiser Sonny Liston in six rounds to become heavyweight champ.

On April 28, 1967, with the United States at war in Vietnam, Ali refused to be inducted into the armed forces, saying “I ain’t got no quarrel with those Vietcong.” On June 20, 1967, Ali was convicted of draft evasion, sentenced to five years in prison, fined $10,000 and banned from boxing for three years. He stayed out of prison as his case was appealed and returned to the ring on October 26, 1970, knocking out Jerry Quarry in Atlanta in the third round. On March 8, 1971, Ali fought Joe Frazier in the “Fight of the Century” and lost after 15 rounds, the first loss of his professional boxing career. On June 28 of that same year, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned his conviction for evading the draft." -History.com

See this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/muhammad-ali-vietnam/485717/
Watch these videos of Ali:

A. Muhammad Ali Refuses Army Induction in 1967 Video - ABC News
B. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9aIamXjQI
C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeFMyrWlZ68
D. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JDM4MY71G4

It was a whole lot braver than some people who squirmed out of serving their country by claiming fake health issues or who's daddy's bought them get out of war cards.

 

[Fledermaus]

LOL. not bush. He made sure he wouldn't get drafted.

Your OPINION is noted.

 

[joG]

I do not think it very wise to allow the Congress to rule that breaking the law is acceptable on a Partisan basis.

True. That is why it is so startling that Congress did not change the Constiturion in a number of instances making laws that would required it and left it to the USSC to redefine the words of the constitution to fit the desires of the street.

 

[joG]

He didn't get of lightly at all. He went broke and was banned from doing what he was doing as a living.

Oh yes. $10.000. Broke.

 

[calamity]

True. That is why it is so startling that Congress did not change the Constiturion in a number of instances making laws that would required it and left it to the USSR to redefine the words of the constitution to fit the desires of the street.

Up until the Oliver North hearings, I always believed we had a good system in place to hold people accountable. OJ, the Clinton impeachment fiasco, and now the whole Trump protection racket thing has cemented my cynicism.

 

[worksforpigs]

Muhammad Ali was right here, too

 

[Marco Montana]

Citation ****ing needed.

Ask Joe Frazier how he feels about Ali calling him the N word ever second!


Here you Liberal gun hating Piers morgan agrees!

Muhammad Ali said far more racist things than Donald Trump, says Piers Morgan | The Independent