Mueller report finding on obstruction confusing to everyone but a lawyer!

[independentusa]

Just TDS. Partisan hatred of Trump. If Trump had done something impeachable then you should impeach. He didn't. We already know you don't like him.

Actually, even if Trump had done something impeachable, the Senate would not do so as it it controlled by the GOP and they will never turn on Trump. He told the truth when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave. That is why Pelosi will not start impeachment proceedings. She is smart enough to see the writing on the wall. Many of the people who do not want Trump as our president do not so so out of hatred, but for what he is and for what he has done. He is not for all Americans, he is for the wealthy and his followers. He does not care about the rest of the nation. He has divided the nation into Trumpsters and the rest. I am older and this is the most divided this country has been since the 60's and maybe the most divided it has ever been. So you keep saying it is all about the hatred of Trump, but it isn't.

 

[Moderate Right]

even if Trump had done something impeachable

So, you admit that Trump hasn't done anything impeachable. Trump isn't the first president that some Americans have really hated. Hell, a lot of Americans hated Obama and a lot hated GWB. Voting is how you get rid of them. Even though I didn't vote for Trump, he is doing a fine job.

 

[Chomsky]

I agree. If the democrats spend the next year working only on impeachment proceedings when it is obvious and clear that republican senators will never, ever vote to convict, all the democrats will have going into 2020 is "we did our part to get rid of Trump, but those damned republicans..." instead of "we prepared a comprehensive health bill, a long-range infrastructure revitalization plan, a tax restructure that can provide funding without increasing deficits, but those damned republicans..."

Guess which statements are more likely to bring in massive democratic votes, lol.

Yes. But there's a quandary, my Good Lady Di.

As the Mueller report is being disseminated, it's becoming clear that while there may not have been the circumstance for the DOJ to indict, there seems to be enough factual evidence to demand impeachment by Congress.

This is a problem. Because if the House does not impeach, they will be abrogating their Constitutional duties, regardless of the Senate's actions. So do the Dems do what is right, by impeaching? Or, do they do what is politically expedient, by not impeaching? In my personal life I push myself to try to do the right thing, letting the cards fall where they may, believing that usually works out the best. And in my personal life, it often does (work best).

But in the body politic with Trump, there's a good argument to be made that a greater good can be done by capturing the Presidency, thereby removing Trump from office, and additionally letting him face whatever legal consequences may be in store for him after he loses Presidential Immunity - before the legal statutes of limitations run-out.

I would not want to have to make this decision!

 

[marke]

He ordered Mueller fired many times! Everyone simply refused to carry out his orders.

I'm glad Mueller made it to the end and had to admit there was no evidence of collusion the entire time.

 

[Hypothetical]

I find nothing confusing in the Mueller report as far as obstruction. Mueller made ten points for Congress to consider, now it is up to the House. Suddenly the cheering from the Right is not so loud now that we have the report to read for ourselves. Barr has muddied the waters, but that was his sole purpose in being appointed as AG. I did not weigh in when Barr gave his initial assessment of the report. To those of you who claimed Barr was conducting a white wash well done, you were spot on. Mueller and Barr will both now have to appear in front of the House Committee.

The other observation from the report, the WH press secretary needs to go, now!!

the problem i see with that assessment is that , yes , Trump may have tiptoed the line as far as obstruction, but he really did nothing WRONG, nor was the investigation hindered in any way by his words.

plus he ABSOLUTELY DID NOT commit the primary crime they accused him of.

thus,any impeachment process could be considered completely political in nature and MAY be viewed badly for the ones doling it out.

so , dems, you willing to roll the dice?

 

[yankintx]

the problem i see with that assessment is that , yes , Trump may have tiptoed the line as far as obstruction, but he really did nothing WRONG, nor was the investigation hindered in any way by his words.

plus he ABSOLUTELY DID NOT commit the primary crime they accused him of.

thus,any impeachment process could be considered completely political in nature and MAY be viewed badly for the ones doling it out.

so , dems, you willing to roll the dice?

Oh I never mentioned impeachment. I say the Dems get as much political fodder out of it as possible leading up to Nov 2020. You maybe able to hand wave away Trump asking staff members to perjur themselves and falsify documents but will the majority of the electorate? Remember, the majority don't quite care as much about Conservative judges as Trumps base. Some of us require integrity in a leader.

And I believe a great many lawyers will not agree with your assessment.

 

[DiAnna]

Yes. But there's a quandary, my Good Lady Di.

As the Mueller report is being disseminated, it's becoming clear that while there may not have been the circumstance for the DOJ to indict, there seems to be enough factual evidence to demand impeachment by Congress.

This is a problem. Because if the House does not impeach, they will be abrogating their Constitutional duties, regardless of the Senate's actions. So do the Dems do what is right, by impeaching? Or, do they do what is politically expedient, by not impeaching? In my personal life I push myself to try to do the right thing, letting the cards fall where they may, believing that usually works out the best. And in my personal life, it often does (work best).

But in the body politic with Trump, there's a good argument to be made that a greater good can be done by capturing the Presidency, thereby removing Trump from office, and additionally letting him face whatever legal consequences may be in store for him after he loses Presidential Immunity - before the legal statutes of limitations run-out.

I would not want to have to make this decision!

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I think the House Judiciary Committee will have public hearings with some of the major players, including Mueller, Barr, Rosenstein, and possibly McGann and other former administration staff members; if the public becomes outraged, as they did during Watergate, the Senate GOP may be forced to drop their support of Trump to save their own political lives.

Thing is, none of what's in Mueller's report is a surprise; Trump has always been corrupt, selfish and dishonest, yet enough people voted for him that they put him in the White House! That, to me, is a moral failure in a huge swath of the fabric of our society... and that will not go away with Trump.