Most of US drug arrests involve a gram or less

[marke]

Drugs are inanimate, like guns. Neither are capable of harming anyone on their own.

You cannot possibly be so out of touch as to think illegal drugs do not do great damage to individuals as well as entire societies.

 

[aociswundumho]

You cannot possibly be so out of touch as to think illegal drugs do not do great damage to individuals as well as entire societies.

I think it's similar to arguing that guns should be banned because some people use them to commit suicide.

People engage in all sorts of behaviors which are risky or deleterious to health in general. Smoking cigarettes, BASE jumping, eating too much or having a poor diet, drinking too much, etc, and they all have costs and benefits, so who should decide?

I say each person should decide for himself, and the noxious government should have no say whatsoever. You're a conservative, you should recognize that it's an egregious violation of personal liberty to imprison people for the "crime" of using politically incorrect drugs.

 

[marke]

I think it's similar to arguing that guns should be banned because some people use them to commit suicide.

People engage in all sorts of behaviors which are risky or deleterious to health in general. Smoking cigarettes, BASE jumping, eating too much or having a poor diet, drinking too much, etc, and they all have costs and benefits, so who should decide?

I say each person should decide for himself, and the noxious government should have no say whatsoever. You're a conservative, you should recognize that it's an egregious violation of personal liberty to imprison people for the "crime" of using politically incorrect drugs.

Legalize the drugs and you expose your little children to pushers who want to give or sell them those drugs. I will never approve of that wickedness.

 

[Logician Man]

Legalize the drugs and you expose your little children to pushers who want to give or sell them those drugs. I will never approve of that wickedness.

Do you think it is better/less harmful for people with severe chronic pain to use legalized and regulated pot for pain relief, or better to use legal opioids like oxycontin, percocet, vicodin, morphine, and other opiate based medications?

 

[TurtleDude]

Most of the Drug Arrests in the US Involve a Gram or Less



The drug war is a combination of mommie-dearest-statism and anti-market bias, both of which emanate from the political left.



What a travesty. The drug war is a huge government failure with no end in sight.

As far as I know, only people on the far right support legalization of all drugs: Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Gary Johnson, hell, even William F. Buckley supported outright legalization.

Can anyone name one single prominent "progressive" who supports the legalization of all drugs, which is the only way to end this disaster?

I remember a far left black politician-might have been the mayor of Baltimore, who wanted to legalize drugs. Of course he wanted to ban all guns-which if you think about it-is really stupid based on his legalization efforts.

 

[TurtleDude]

Legalize the drugs and you expose your little children to pushers who want to give or sell them those drugs. I will never approve of that wickedness.

that's really stupid. if you legalize drugs, the FDA has some control over the drugs-vs what we have now where heroin is being cut with poisons or elephant tranquilizers etc

 

[marke]

Do you think it is better/less harmful for people with severe chronic pain to use legalized and regulated pot for pain relief, or better to use legal opioids like oxycontin, percocet, vicodin, morphine, and other opiate based medications?

Find a way to get drugs to those who need them without opening to doors to getting drugs to kids and young adults who DEFINITELY NEED THEM AS MUCH AS THEY NEED A BULLET LODGED IN THE BRAIN.

 

[Logician Man]

Find a way to get drugs to those who need them without opening to doors to getting drugs to kids and young adults who DEFINITELY NEED THEM AS MUCH AS THEY NEED A BULLET LODGED IN THE BRAIN.

That didn't answer thw question,marke. Do you understand the question? It appears not, as your answer is irrelevant to the actual questioned posed. Want to re-read the question, and actually give pertinent, direct answer? We are talking about people with severe chronic pain issues; not children using drugs.

 

[Thoreau72]

The same old tired argument. If you can't stop the use of drugs just make them legal and all will be well. BULL! How about using that same flawed logic, and we just legalize all bad behavior and criminal activity which is really out of control.

LOL, so much for the OP's idea that only conservatives like Buckley and Friedman favor drug law repeal!

You offer the same irrational claim as many others of both sides have offered, no argument at all.

For more than a century now the drug prohibition, the Drug War according to Nixon, Reagan and Bush, has been a war on the US Constitution and the American people.

Bureaucrats in the enforcement bureaus will always defend the prohibition, and the CIA is in the drug business. It's the American people who suffer from this absurd policy.

 

[Da Mole]

LOL, so much for the OP's idea that only conservatives like Buckley and Friedman favor drug law repeal!

You offer the same irrational claim as many others of both sides have offered, no argument at all.

For more than a century now the drug prohibition, the Drug War according to Nixon, Reagan and Bush, has been a war on the US Constitution and the American people.

Bureaucrats in the enforcement bureaus will always defend the prohibition, and the CIA is in the drug business. It's the American people who suffer from this absurd policy.

I still think your solution is miss guided. True, "Just say No" doesn't work but giving up and legalizing drugs is not the answer.

 

[Thoreau72]

I still think your solution is miss guided. True, "Just say No" doesn't work but giving up and legalizing drugs is not the answer.

How was it that the US fairly well thrived and grew into prosperity in the 150 years it existed with legal drugs?

Perhaps you could offer a brief summary about how well the US has done since the drug prohibition was started in 1914? Perhaps you won't.

 

[Da Mole]

How was it that the US fairly well thrived and grew into prosperity in the 150 years it existed with legal drugs?

Perhaps you could offer a brief summary about how well the US has done since the drug prohibition was started in 1914? Perhaps you won't.

Don't know if you assessment of past drug use is correct but here's a thought. Apples and Oranges. Just maybe the drug users of 150 years ago were not the same as the current crop of anti social, criminally violent thugs we have to deal with today.

 

[danielpalos]

Abolish the wasteful and extra-Constitutional warfare spending not welfare spending that promotes the general welfare!

 

[The Old Soul]

You cannot possibly be so out of touch as to think illegal drugs do not do great damage to individuals as well as entire societies.

Absolutely right illegal drugs do damage individuals and society; otherwise moral, responsible, contributors being thrown in jail and branded with a felony for the rest of their lives does do irrepairable damage not only to the individual, but to their families and associates. Militarizing our police departments with the right to kick down doors armed to the hilt, confiscation of personal property without recourse, and financially wiping out those of modest means trying to pay fines, lawyer fees, and keeping the bills paid while under the thumb of the legal system.

Society suffers wasted time and effort of police departments picking the low hanging fruit of the drug bust, not to mention the costs of arresting, trying, convicting, and imprisoning 'offenders' who would otherwise be earning a living and paying taxes, when the legal system could be dealing with actual crimes and criminals. Drug use was a minor problem before Nixon decided to use the War On Drugs to persecute his least favorite members of society; blacks and hippies. Yea, illegal drugs are a huge problem that if anything are medical, not statutory.

 

[marke]

Absolutely right illegal drugs do damage individuals and society; otherwise moral, responsible, contributors being thrown in jail and branded with a felony for the rest of their lives does do irrepairable damage not only to the individual, but to their families and associates. Militarizing our police departments with the right to kick down doors armed to the hilt, confiscation of personal property without recourse, and financially wiping out those of modest means trying to pay fines, lawyer fees, and keeping the bills paid while under the thumb of the legal system.

Society suffers wasted time and effort of police departments picking the low hanging fruit of the drug bust, not to mention the costs of arresting, trying, convicting, and imprisoning 'offenders' who would otherwise be earning a living and paying taxes, when the legal system could be dealing with actual crimes and criminals. Drug use was a minor problem before Nixon decided to use the War On Drugs to persecute his least favorite members of society; blacks and hippies. Yea, illegal drugs are a huge problem that if anything are medical, not statutory.

Complaints about US laws, law enforcement rules, law enforcement officers and so forth abound. I just posted an all-points bulletin put out by a Hawaiian city to find the girl who violated the recent rules demanding quarantine due to COVID-19 fears. They wanted that girl in jail. We are aware of the commando-style arrest techniques used on Trump supporters and officials for crimes that they would never have charged anyone with who was not connected to Trump. We have seen whole cities telling ICE agaents to go to hell for trying to uphold federal immigration laws. And we have seen cops beat a thug for fighting against arrest and attempting to steal their weapons. But I wonder that decent Americans could think legalizing drugs would benefit a society filled with tens of millions of young people vulnerable to becoming future drug addicts.

 

[Da Mole]

Absolutely right illegal drugs do damage individuals and society; otherwise moral, responsible, contributors being thrown in jail and branded with a felony for the rest of their lives does do irrepairable damage not only to the individual, but to their families and associates. Militarizing our police departments with the right to kick down doors armed to the hilt, confiscation of personal property without recourse, and financially wiping out those of modest means trying to pay fines, lawyer fees, and keeping the bills paid while under the thumb of the legal system.

Society suffers wasted time and effort of police departments picking the low hanging fruit of the drug bust, not to mention the costs of arresting, trying, convicting, and imprisoning 'offenders' who would otherwise be earning a living and paying taxes, when the legal system could be dealing with actual crimes and criminals. Drug use was a minor problem before Nixon decided to use the War On Drugs to persecute his least favorite members of society; blacks and hippies. Yea, illegal drugs are a huge problem that if anything are medical, not statutory.

Yep! The consequences of doing drugs and getting caught are substantial and everyone knows what the penalties are. So, if you can't do the time, don't due the crime. Quit wasting your time defending those that are too stupid, or reckless.

 

[dex4974]

The same old tired argument. If you can't stop the use of drugs just make them legal and all will be well. BULL! How about using that same flawed logic, and we just legalize all bad behavior and criminal activity which is really out of control.

If we legalized and regulated drugs it would create enormous amounts of tax revenue and jobs, the drugs would be safer and black markets the world over would crumble. Did you know most teenagers find it easier to buy weed than alcohol? That's because the alcohol at least has the small hurdle of needing to be purchased by somebody 21 or older. Drug dealers don't care about how old you are. Legalization would not lead to everybody becoming addicted to meth. I don't know about you, but my decision to not use hardcore drugs has nothing to do with it being illegal. Legalize the stuff and use some of the taxed money to fund awareness.

Comparing the legalization of drugs to the legalization of all bad behavior is absurd, especially in a society that already allows alcohol and cigarette consumption. People should be allowed to make the choice to use drugs if they want to.

 

[The Old Soul]

Complaints about US laws, law enforcement rules, law enforcement officers and so forth abound. I just posted an all-points bulletin put out by a Hawaiian city to find the girl who violated the recent rules demanding quarantine due to COVID-19 fears. They wanted that girl in jail. We are aware of the commando-style arrest techniques used on Trump supporters and officials for crimes that they would never have charged anyone with who was not connected to Trump. We have seen whole cities telling ICE agaents to go to hell for trying to uphold federal immigration laws. And we have seen cops beat a thug for fighting against arrest and attempting to steal their weapons. But I wonder that decent Americans could think legalizing drugs would benefit a society filled with tens of millions of young people vulnerable to becoming future drug addicts.

My Dad's a retired beat cop in his 80's with inoperable lumbar disk degeneration who beat a prescription oxycodone addiction for pain by finally trying oral Medical Marijuana as a replacement therapy. Having never tried the devils lettuce until a couple years ago, it was a real eye opener for him. He has come to regret the damage he unknowingly did to the many people he busted, never realizing how unjust harsh laws against such a benign, and medically beneficial substance actually was until he had first hand experience on the other side. He said MJ, and most other 'illicit' drugs were never a major problem until after the Nixon administration; making them all the target of the War On Drugs proved to be the brass ring for many who may not have gone down that road at all.

He also did much work with youth (he worked in a big city), and his philosophy was that having faith and trust in future generations had vastly better outcomes than distrust and suspicion that the tens of millions of young people in our country were hopelessly vulnerable and likely to become future drug addicts without draconian laws. By turning public servants who actually worked toward positive outcomes by earning mutual respect with the young and impressionable, into heavily armed law enforcers under orders to suspect, arrest and incarcerate any and all drug 'offenses,' destroyed many of the mutually positive relationships the police had on the streets long ago. Even a dog can be a loyal and dedicated companion if treated with love and compassion, but is equally capable of being a vicious distrustful threat if beaten and disciplined heartlessly. People are much the same.

 

[marke]

My Dad's a retired beat cop in his 80's with inoperable lumbar disk degeneration who beat a prescription oxycodone addiction for pain by finally trying oral Medical Marijuana as a replacement therapy. Having never tried the devils lettuce until a couple years ago, it was a real eye opener for him. He has come to regret the damage he unknowingly did to the many people he busted, never realizing how unjust harsh laws against such a benign, and medically beneficial substance actually was until he had first hand experience on the other side. He said MJ, and most other 'illicit' drugs were never a major problem until after the Nixon administration; making them all the target of the War On Drugs proved to be the brass ring for many who may not have gone down that road at all.

He also did much work with youth (he worked in a big city), and his philosophy was that having faith and trust in future generations had vastly better outcomes than distrust and suspicion that the tens of millions of young people in our country were hopelessly vulnerable and likely to become future drug addicts without draconian laws. By turning public servants who actually worked toward positive outcomes by earning mutual respect with the young and impressionable, into heavily armed law enforcers under orders to suspect, arrest and incarcerate any and all drug 'offenses,' destroyed many of the mutually positive relationships the police had on the streets long ago. Even a dog can be a loyal and dedicated companion if treated with love and compassion, but is equally capable of being a vicious distrustful threat if beaten and disciplined heartlessly. People are much the same.

Like I said. Get marijuana to the sick if they need it but do not let pushers make it available to kids. There are many reasons kids and adults should be protected from damage caused by marijuana and other illegal drugs. Here is just one of dozens of reasons given by SAMHSA, The US government Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration:

Brain iconBrain health: Marijuana can cause permanent IQ loss of as much as 8 points when people start using it at a young age. These IQ points do not come back, even after quitting marijuana


Know the Risks of Marijuana | SAMHSA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

 

[The Old Soul]

Yep! The consequences of doing drugs and getting caught are substantial and everyone knows what the penalties are. So, if you can't do the time, don't due the crime. Quit wasting your time defending those that are too stupid, or reckless.

It is not a waste of time to stand up for those so many deem stupid or reckless when in fact they are not, and simply experiencing the life they were cast into. Humans possess an intrinsic need to alter their consciousness, explore the unknown, and enhance their experiences by jumping out of planes, racing cars, riding motorcycles, climbing mountains, scuba diving, writing music and books, painting paintings, and exploring their minds and bodies with the vast array of chemicals available like marijuana, mushrooms, peyote, opium, LSD, heroin, etc. - the number one recreational chemical on the planet being alcohol.

Alcohol is as much a part of our world as cars and television; its relatively cheap, extremely potent, predictable, quantifiable, and will take anyone as close to fall down drunk unconscious dead as they want to get. There's no escaping alcohol; its in virtually every movie, book, and refrigerator. It is an ultimately popular social lubricant and used encouragingly at almost every social event from dating to Catholic mass. People drink alcohol to unwind and reward themselves for a days work, a nights pleasure, watching sports, going fishing, or just sitting in the garage on a Saturday afternoon with buddies. People savor it, collect it, wear clothes advertising it, give and receive it as gifts, build businesses and empires around it, and its all necessary to satisfy the natural craving to alter perception all humans naturally possess. But not everyone enjoys or can handle where alcohol takes you, but are denied an alternate experience that works better for them because it is not alcohol? That's absurd.

 

[The Old Soul]

Like I said. Get marijuana to the sick if they need it but do not let pushers make it available to kids. There are many reasons kids and adults should be protected from damage caused by marijuana and other illegal drugs. Here is just one of dozens of reasons given by SAMHSA, The US government Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration:

Brain iconBrain health: Marijuana can cause permanent IQ loss of as much as 8 points when people start using it at a young age. These IQ points do not come back, even after quitting marijuana


Know the Risks of Marijuana | SAMHSA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

'The children' argument has been strained, drained, and worn to a nub - give it up. People don't use 1/2 the IQ points they were born with anyway. The War On Drugs under the guise of the all wise and knowing government has corrupted and skewed 'facts' to point of vendetta. Just look at the people trying to run this mess!

 

[Thoreau72]

Don't know if you assessment of past drug use is correct but here's a thought. Apples and Oranges. Just maybe the drug users of 150 years ago were not the same as the current crop of anti social, criminally violent thugs we have to deal with today.

I did not think you would provide a straight answer. No, the people from 1850 are not the same people of today.

IF you ever get the chance to read LICIT & ILLICIT DRUGS you might understand.

If this link still works, it will assist you. Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs - Table of Contents

 

[truthatallcost]

Most of the Drug Arrests in the US Involve a Gram or Less



The drug war is a combination of mommie-dearest-statism and anti-market bias, both of which emanate from the political left.



What a travesty. The drug war is a huge government failure with no end in sight.

As far as I know, only people on the far right support legalization of all drugs: Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Gary Johnson, hell, even William F. Buckley supported outright legalization.

Can anyone name one single prominent "progressive" who supports the legalization of all drugs, which is the only way to end this disaster?

Personal consumption is practically legal in California. If a cop catches someone with Meth or heroin, it's usually just a citation, and no arrest is made. I've never seen more junkies on the streets, and used needles are everywhere, including the trail that leads to the elementary school 3 blocks away from my house. Smash and grabs are also very common, as I'm sure many people have heard. A strange thing happens when you decriminalize personal drug use, and the crimes that drug addicts frequently commit in order to fuel their habit- the addicts don't fear police or jail anymore.

 

[aociswundumho]

Personal consumption is practically legal in California. If a cop catches someone with Meth or heroin, it's usually just a citation, and no arrest is made.

I presume you've dealt with bums and junkies on a personal level at some point in your life, correct? How does putting them in steel cages at a cost of 20k per year to the taxpayer help the situation? How many thousands do you think you can lock up in steel cages forever, and why on earth would you want to pay to keep them locked up?

You're problem here isn't with drugs, it's with bums. Get rid of the homeless bums and all of the problems you mention in your post go away with them.

 

[truthatallcost]

I presume you've dealt with bums and junkies on a personal level at some point in your life, correct? How does putting them in steel cages at a cost of 20k per year to the taxpayer help the situation? How many thousands do you think you can lock up in steel cages forever, and why on earth would you want to pay to keep them locked up?

You're problem here isn't with drugs, it's with bums. Get rid of the homeless bums and all of the problems you mention in your post go away with them.

I'll attempt to answer your questions..

1. Yes. I was made homeless at 14 years of age, and quickly found that the new homeless community I found myself a part of were heavily addicted to substances. Maneuvering my way through that without becoming a statistic taught me a great deal.

2. For one thing, addicts usually have to detox in jail. While they're in jail, they're not out stealing and scamming to come up with money for drugs. They're also not being arrested daily or weekly while they're in jail, or overdosing, which frees up emergency services.

3. My solution isn't to lock up drug addicts forever. I would rather target the source of the drugs themselves, by crippling the drug cartels, and the stranglehold they have on Mexico and their government. If the government of Mexico refuses to cooperate, then we should issue sanctions, and repeal trade agreements. I'm not adverse to using our military to fight cartels either, and it's a much better use of our military than our wars in the middle east that were supposed to bring freedom to people on the other side of the globe.

How do we get rid of the bums? Concentration camps? Death camps?