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Minority Rights

The chief limiting factor in solving crime is not science, but resources.

The best outcome would be if the crime never happened in the first place. The state can't pour in the same resources into catching a murderer as it would a terrorist. Americans can’t redirect the entire focus of the CIA into looking for criminals that ostracise themselves in mountain hideouts and underground bunkers.

Screenshot_20220503-003638_Chrome.webp
Saddam Hussein's hidden passage.
 
You failed to make any point...

And so it can.

Body armour might be heavy to carry around on the street but if you're at home then you could leave it close by. Then you'd be just as protected against pellets as a home invader with body armour of their own. If gun control is successfully enforced then you could also seek to legally reduce body armour so as to make non-lethal weaponry more effective. However if illegal guns are still in circulation then the defensive qualities of body armour might outweigh the risks of them being used by criminals during an offensive attack.
 
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OK perhaps not always but when they check for your ticket they often check your passport too and so there’s still some sort of checkpoint.

Airports do the same, because airlines don't want to fly someone to another country and then have to fly them back because they lacked a passport...but this is NOT checking your luggage in any way
You said:
Travelling to another US state by plane or another nation by ferry both require luggage checks.
And you are wrong.


Practice makes perfect and if Roger Federer can hit a service ace down the T, then airpistol shooters could train to avoid hitting regions of dense body armour.

A tennis player is nowhere near as accurate as a shooter
And no amount of practice will allow a shooter to hit the same spot on a target. If they do, then it's pure luck
So you're wrong again.


A water cannon would be too heavy for pedestrians to carry around but if you're at home then a high-powered hose is a non-lethal option.

Yeah right
And in what universe is this a reality ?
Wrong doesn't even begin to cover it.


With today's technology you don't have to be rich to have automatic grilles, shutters and gates. Sleeping in a fortified room is a safer option than having a gun under your pillow. This would help reduce accidental discharges.

How does being inside a "fortified room", mean you suffer fewer negligent discharges ?
What happens if you take your gun outside of the said room ?

The best outcome would be if the crime never happened in the first place. The state can't pour in the same resources into catching a murderer as it would a terrorist. Americans can’t redirect the entire focus of the CIA into looking for criminals that ostracise themselves in mountain hideouts and underground bunkers.

Saddam Hussein's hidden passage.

The state commits FAR more resources to stopping "regular" criminals than stopping terrorists.

Body armour might be heavy to carry around on the street but if you're at home then you could leave it close by. Then you'd be just as protected against pellets as a home invader with body armour of their own. If gun control is successfully enforced then you could also seek to legally reduce body armour so as to make non-lethal weaponry more effective. However if illegal guns are still in circulation then the defensive qualities of body armour might outweigh the risks of them being used by criminals during an offensive attack.

Sure, if you're subject to a home invasion, donning body armor takes no time at all - course, opening your front door to all callers be they neighbors, Jehovah's Witnesses or pizza delivery, in full body armor, wouldn't cause people to think that you're a complete nut job
And humping it from the living room to the bedroom, every night wouldn't be a chore at all.
 
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but this is NOT checking your luggage in any way

Most road commuters don't even have luggage and so it wouldn't take too long for gun control enforcers to check their vehicle when they cross state lines.
 
How does being inside a "fortified room", mean you suffer fewer negligent discharges ?

The safe room would be an alternative to the gun and so there'd be no gun around for an accident to occur.


donning body armor takes no time at all

If Americans spent their money on home fortifications instead of guns then they'd be far better off. Bulletproofing doors is far too expensive and time consuming for most citizens. Shotgun wielding criminals are indefensible and the best bet is to pre-emptively disarm criminals. Stab-proof and kick-proof exteriors are far more realistic.


door vs. shotgun (joe shoe)
 
And in what universe is this a reality ?
Wrong doesn't even begin to cover it.

Boil the kettle or else fill it with corrosive acids or bases and you'd have a potentially deadly weapon. Burn injuries do look gruesome but gun injuries are even more so. The public isn't as aware of horrific facial gun wounds simply because unfortunately most of them die instantly whereas brave survivors of criminal acid attacks can live to tell the tale. To make matters worse a gun can inflict those injuries at a far longer range than a chemical water gun.
 
It's ironic that milder injuries might sometimes produce more of a squeal from the audience simply because it's more relatable. For example many people might gasp at an amputation but not an actual death from a stab wound simply because the former is a greater threat during everyday accidents. We're more likely to encounter little scars and bruises during the day than major bullet wounds and so battle scenes can seem far removed from reality. Some war scenes are so horrific that it can be tempting for the lay person to become desensitised to it. The problem is when these prejudices affect public policy where some weapons deceptively seem more dangerous than others. A handgun is probably a hundred times more dangerous than a flask of acid because its range is hundreds of times greater.

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Saving Private Ryan - D-Day radio operator
 
opening your front door to all callers be they neighbors, Jehovah's Witnesses or pizza delivery, in full body armor, wouldn't cause people to think that you're a complete nut job

Body armour wouldn't be enough to protect against aerial irritants like pepper spray and most criminals don't have gas masks. Therefore specially designed non-lethal weaponry could overcome any countermeasure.


SP Shocker RSX Paintball Gun - Shooting Video

"A paintball gun can be used to shoot marbles... Technically, pepper balls can be used in paintball guns."
 
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A tennis player is nowhere near as accurate as a shooter
And no amount of practice will allow a shooter to hit the same spot on a target. If they do, then it's pure luck
So you're wrong again.

An air rifle is more powerful than an air-pistol and so the air-rifle could penetrate most body armour deep enough to sting with a single round. An air-pistol is semi-auto and so even if it doesn't go as deeply into the metal plates it can still fire at the same location in quick succession. For example it's almost easier for a machine gun to hit the same place twice than a sniper rifle because there's less time between rounds for your hand and your enemy to move. A semi-auto pistol is less dangerous than semi-auto rifles owing to the decreased range and accuracy. The fact that semi-auto AR-15s are more controversial than semi-auto handguns isn't arbitrary because it's the combination of features that result in its increased lethality rather than the rate-of-fire alone.

Handguns are usually semi-automatic. Semi-auto weapons are automatically reloaded but not automatically fired where the trigger remains manual:

Glock 17 Gen 3 - 33 Round Stick (2021) Pt. 2

Air-rifles are normally single-shot devices:
"Single shot is the mode of operation where a weapon has no magazine and may contain only a single cartridge, loaded directly into the chamber. The gun must be manually reloaded and manually re-cocked every time it is fired. It is most commonly found in large hunting handguns, simple shotguns or hunting rifles."
 
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The state commits FAR more resources to stopping "regular" criminals than stopping terrorists.

That can be true overall but not necessarily individually since some terrorist bombings can kill far more people than domestic serial killers. A state can spend far more on the police than the military for the general population during peacetime but pro rata more is often spent on catching an individual terrorist than an individual criminal. For example it requires much more transport costs for detectives to find foreign terrorists on the other side of the planet. If an assassin stocked up on enough food to last a lifetime and forever lived in bunker beneath a national park without ever coming out, then there's very little the police could do about it.

"By conservative estimates, bin Laden cost the United States at least $3 trillion over the past 15 years, counting the disruptions he wrought on the domestic economy, the wars and heightened security triggered by the terrorist attacks he engineered, and the direct efforts to hunt him down."

"While bulgur biscuits and synthetic protein grains may have been the government’s idea of the perfect fallout shelter food, many ordinary Americans turned to more conventional options when it came to stocking their emergency pantries. Canned vegetables and beans and preserved meats (think Spam and hot dogs) were popular choices, along with peanut butter, boxed cereals, canned juices, drink mixes and packaged crackers and cookies."
 
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Most road commuters don't even have luggage

When I've traveled, by road, to another state, for at least 24 hours, I've taken luggage

The safe room would be an alternative to the gun and so there'd be no gun around for an accident to occur

If Americans spent their money on home fortifications instead of guns then they'd be far better off

The very reasoning, why your home is safer from gun related death/injury, if there's no gun in it
Owning a gun in the home, increases the chances of such an incident happening


Boil the kettle or else fill it with corrosive acids or bases and you'd have a potentially deadly weapon

You do if you boil just water, or use corrosive acids without heating them

Either way, in this universe, people do not defend their homes with a water cannon or a high-powered hose
As I said, "wrong" isn't even close to describing your lunatic fantasies

many people might gasp at an amputation but not an actual death from a stab wound

Because of the perceived discomfort/pain
People would react more to a death by being boiled alive than merely by being shot or stabbed

Body armour wouldn't be enough to protect against aerial irritants like pepper spray...

Body armor isn't designed to protect against chemical or biological attack. (It's not designed to protect against nuclear attack either)
Body armor is designed to protect penetration of the body, from projectiles of a specified class, over the areas of the body where it's worn

Why would you think that anyone else, would think that body armor protects from chemical/biological attack ?


An air rifle is more powerful than an air-pistol and so the air-rifle could penetrate most body armour deep enough to sting with a single round.

Please give an example of such an "air rifle", and an example of (modern) body armor that it can penetrate

An air-pistol is semi-auto and so even if it doesn't go as deeply into the metal plates it can still fire at the same location in quick succession

Please give an example of a semi-automatic air pistol (or air rifle for that matter), because I've never seen one.

it's almost easier for a machine gun to hit the same place twice than a sniper rifle because there's less time between rounds for your hand and your enemy to move.

A person with a rifle will shoot more accurately, the more time he/she takes between shots
Have you ever seen a rifle competition ?

Air-rifles are normally single-shot devices

Not normally, but always.

That can be true overall but not necessarily individually since some terrorist bombings can kill far more people than domestic serial killers

And a woman, in a domestic violence incident, can kill more people that a terrorist in a bomb attack.

A state can spend far more on the police than the military for the general population during peacetime but pro rata more is often spent on catching an individual terrorist than an individual criminal. For example it requires much more transport costs for detectives to find foreign terrorists on the other side of the planet. If an assassin stocked up on enough food to last a lifetime and forever lived in bunker beneath a national park without ever coming out, then there's very little the police could do about it.

And a state can spend far more on cleaning public toilets, in a year, than it spends catching one or two terrorists
eg: the Boston bombers were caught fairly quickly.

"While bulgur biscuits and synthetic protein grains may have been the government’s idea of the perfect fallout shelter food, many ordinary Americans turned to more conventional options when it came to stocking their emergency pantries. Canned vegetables and beans and preserved meats (think Spam and hot dogs) were popular choices, along with peanut butter, boxed cereals, canned juices, drink mixes and packaged crackers and cookies."

Or freeze dried food.
K rations versus C rations.
 
Either way, in this universe, people do not defend their homes with a water cannon or a high-powered hose
As I said, "wrong" isn't even close...

A water cannon could be operated remotely and the different design and wider dispersion means that it couldn't be converted into an illegal remote gunpowder gun. I've been ambushed by sprinklers many times!
 
Why would you think that anyone else, would think that body armor protects from chemical/biological attack ?

Gun-rights groups seem to think that non-lethal weaponry are innocuous against the right counter-measures and that only guns will suffice. It's very easy to metamorphose a means of attack with non lethal weapons. For example a taser-gun that fires electrodes at short range could be switched into an electrical stun grenade fired by a grenade launcher for long range targets.
 
A water cannon could be operated remotely and the different design and wider dispersion means that it couldn't be converted into an illegal remote gunpowder gun. I've been ambushed by sprinklers many times!

Would you suggest one in every room that had an exterior wall or window ?
Would such water cannons be restricted to shooting cold water ? What if it was boiled or what if corrosive chemicals were used ?
How big a tank would your water cannon require, and should it be located inside the home ?
Do you think the landlord, of an apartment block, could use communal tanks ?
Could motor vehicles be equipped with such devices with a towed tank in some kind of trailer and could it double as a car wash ?

So many questions...

Gun-rights groups seem to think that non-lethal weaponry are innocuous against the right counter-measures and that only guns will suffice. It's very easy to metamorphose a means of attack with non lethal weapons. For example a taser-gun that fires electrodes at short range could be switched into an electrical stun grenade fired by a grenade launcher for long range targets.

Electrical stun grenade ???
You're slipping off the planet again.

That's a random example!

Just like yours.
 
Electrical stun grenade ???

The danger of a flash-bang can vary with the design. For example some of those grenades can cause permanent hearing and visual impairment. Milder versions only cause temporary disorientation.
 
Would such water cannons be restricted to shooting cold water ? What if it was boiled or what if corrosive chemicals were used ?

Legally it'd depend on the proportionality of the attack. Is it a kidnapper or just a burglar?
 
How big a tank would your water cannon require, and should it be located inside the home ?

It depends how fortified your house is.

"Those defending the castle would sometimes pour hot sand, boiling water or quicklime on attackers who were using scaling ladders to climb the walls."

"An elevated entrance is a type of entrance, common in the design of medieval castles, that is not accessible from ground level, but lies at the level of an upper storey."
 
Please give an example of a semi-automatic air pistol (or air rifle for that matter), because I've never seen one.

Not normally, but always.

A springer air-rifle where you've to pull back the barrel to insert the pellet is indeed single-shot. However there are different types of airguns such as the PCP ones which could be designed as a semi-auto weapon.

"Years ago the only option was a spring-powered airgun but in the last 15-20 years precharged pneumatics – or PCPS – have come on in leaps and bounds... Many modern PCPs also incorporate multi-shot magazines that are cycled by the cocking stroke. This handy feature makes for fast follow-up shots in the field and great fun on the plinking range."
 
Would you suggest one in every room that had an exterior wall or window ?

If you're accurate then you shouldn't need too many water reserves. You could also shoot in burst rather than through continuous fire.
 
A person with a rifle will shoot more accurately, the more time he/she takes between shots
Have you ever seen a rifle competition ?

Yes recoil and range are other factors but I meant more of a short-range encounter with a semi-auto air pistol. A machine gun could fire a second shot close to the first shot by its sheer rate of fire even if the first shot is inaccurate.


Red 2 (5/10) Movie CLIP - Han Attacks (2013)
 
Please give an example of such an "air rifle", and an example of (modern) body armor that it can penetrate

A shotgun flechette cartridge contains up to 28 flechettes and so if we reduced the number to one small flechette then it might be possible to design it as a less lethal weapon. A flechette that's capable of penetrating body armour still has a risk of being lethal if it goes through the entire body. The fact that the wound is so narrow means that it's potentially survivable. So here a miniaturised flechette isn't non-lethal as such but rather less-lethal with perhaps a 50:50 kill to injury ratio. The milder the design the higher the number of injuries could be compared to kills. Whether they should be legal would depend on how many illegal guns are in circulation and how much body armour is being used by criminals in society.

Screenshot_20220504-010215_Chrome.jpg

"Arrows, however, unlike bullets (which are made to spread upon and following impact, and thus cause far more damage than arrows) are specifically designed to penetrate the target that they’re fired at. Because their tip is much smaller and sharper than that of a bullet and are fired with less velocity, and use far less energy.

Lower energy means less dispersal, which significantly reduces the impact protection that Kevlar offers. This means, in most cases, when they’re fired at kevlar, arrows can, and usually do pierce Kevlar. However, if the kevlar in question is stab rated (kevlar is also used in stab vests which are worn to prevent damage and injury from knives) and is thick enough, it can stop an arrow.

That said if the arrow is fired from an incredibly powerful bow, and the archer in question is using armor-piercing arrows, then even the thickest stab vest and highest rated personal armor is unlikely to be able to stop an arrow."
 
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An air rifle is more powerful than an air-pistol and so the air-rifle could penetrate most body armour deep enough to sting with a single round. An air-pistol is semi-auto and so even if it doesn't go as deeply into the metal plates it can still fire at the same location in quick succession. For example it's almost easier for a machine gun to hit the same place twice than a sniper rifle because there's less time between rounds for your hand and your enemy to move. A semi-auto pistol is less dangerous than semi-auto rifles owing to the decreased range and accuracy. The fact that semi-auto AR-15s are more controversial than semi-auto handguns isn't arbitrary because it's the combination of features that result in its increased lethality rather than the rate-of-fire alone.

Handguns are usually semi-automatic. Semi-auto weapons are automatically reloaded but not automatically fired where the trigger remains manual:

Glock 17 Gen 3 - 33 Round Stick (2021) Pt. 2

Air-rifles are normally single-shot devices:
"Single shot is the mode of operation where a weapon has no magazine and may contain only a single cartridge, loaded directly into the chamber. The gun must be manually reloaded and manually re-cocked every time it is fired. It is most commonly found in large hunting handguns, simple shotguns or hunting rifles."


If this were true, machine guns would be in demand to be used as unlimited class benchrest rifles. The problem is, the gun itself moves in between successive rounds.
 
If this were true, machine guns would be in demand to be used as unlimited class benchrest rifles. The problem is, the gun itself moves in between successive rounds.
Some posts in this thread are totally unstuck in reality.
 
If this were true, machine guns would be in demand to be used as unlimited class benchrest rifles. The problem is, the gun itself moves in between successive rounds.

If shotguns weren't allowed then a lot of people might opt for a submachine gun over a sniper rifle for close range, fast moving clay pigeon shooting. The recoil on a submachine gun isn't as high as a machine gun's recoil unless you mounted the machine gun.
 
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