Minnesota Officer Was 'Reacting to Presence of Gun,' Lawyer Says...

[Caine]

- Straight 'A' H.S. student.

- No criminal convictions, including misdemeanors.

- Worked the same job in the public schools for a decade straight since graduating from H.S.

- Valid CCW holder.

I've got to admit, it doesn't add up.

But I see why so many are video taping all police encounters. Can't blame them at all, and I'm beginning to think we all should - and live streaming, at that.

Do you have a link to evidence that he was in fact a valid CCW holder?

Just curious because Ramsey Sheriff confirmed that Castille never applied for a CCW permit with them....this is the county of which everyone stated had issued his permit. And of course, CCW permit status is private in the state of Minnesota.

 

[Caine]

The issue here Magg is that the cop is often more inclined to perceive a threat based on race and THAT's a problem. THAT'S where the racism comes into play. That's why you can't use the superficial justification of a perceived threat. You have to look at whether or not the threat was real and not just perceived.

You have no evidence that a police officer is more inclined to perceive a threat based upon race. If you do, provide it, and I'll provide mine.

 

[Caine]

In many states people have carry permits, and licensed people routinely have guns on them during traffic stops. The officer should know how to respond in the situation without freaking out and killing a guy. If cops can't handle state concealed carry laws, then either the cops or the concealed carry laws are completely flawed.

The fact that the person you are dealing with is potentially the armed Robbery suspect that you thought he was as the basis for your traffic stop greatly changes how you respond when the person has a firearm in their lap and disobeys commands to keep hands visible.

 

[Caine]

Actually that's not entirely true.

Cops practice shooting at blacks via target practice to make it emotionally easier to kill minorities.

There's a psychological effect to things like this that make it easier to shoot Black vs shooting other minorities. People on these very forums dismissed the statements of how this was inappropriate. I highly suggest you study up on some basics of psychology to understand why using images of Blacks and only Blacks is a horrible idea. And also keep in mind this story only got out because the cops were too lazy and sloppy and left their homemade targets up. Things like this are happening all over the country that don't go reported.

Cops literally practice killing Blacks and it's all for fun and glory. This is a systemic problem that needs to change and as long as cops have defenders for this kind of behvavior it never will change.

Oh my god, this is the dumbest thing I think I have read yet. Yes that Florida Department was very very wrong. They should be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

No what they did is not standard anywhere in America, nor is it accepted or acceptable to other police officers and police departments.

Claiming because one did it, all others accept it and do it too is about as bad as claiming that all black people are criminals because a black guy committed a murder.

 

[Caine]

I dont agree. Cops have body armor, and advanced training in dealing with threats. Civilians who think they might be shot if they react the wrong way, are at a disadvantage. Interactions with police make people nervous, whether they did anything or not. Getting a gun pointed at you immediately ramps that up. Im dont know what happened here, but there is a increasing trend of police using excessive force, of resorting to lethal force.

Body Armor didn't help my friends who were shot in the head on April 1, 2007 in Charlotte, NC while coming back to their vehicles after handling a Domestic Violence call.

The stupidity inherent in the idea that because cops have body armor they should allow lethal for to be used upon them before responding to it, rather than preventing its use when it is imminent is absurd.

 

[Caine]

Usually. The problem is the officer had already pegged him as a robbery suspect. We know that now. And the problem with that is, what reasonable citizen knows what the cop is suspecting? Are we now to reasonably believe we will be treated like a suspected criminal until we can convince Judge Dredd we are not? Is that what its coming to?

You know how you convince "Judge Dredd" (as you ignorantly put it) that you are NOT the armed robbery suspect?

You follow the commands of the law enforcement officer, ESPECIALLY, when you have a firearm in your lap.

 

[Caine]

No. He was being pulled over for a broken tail light. The officer did not have enough to reasonably suspect him of robbery. The dead guy is also not psychic. Maybe if he knew he was being irrationally suspected of robbery it would have a tendency to change how he reacts to an irrational officer making irrational claims.

And what do you know about what information the Officer had, and what is or is not reasonable?

Armchair Lawyer?

 

[opendebate]

You have no evidence that a police officer is more inclined to perceive a threat based upon race. If you do, provide it, and I'll provide mine.

I have statistics and reason on my side. How about you

 

[Caine]

I have statistics and reason on my side. How about you

Please show how your statistics PROVE what you claim, rather than leave one to guess that racism is the factor. Prove the racism, don't imply it.

 

[SheWolf]

The fact that the person you are dealing with is potentially the armed Robbery suspect that you thought he was as the basis for your traffic stop greatly changes how you respond when the person has a firearm in their lap and disobeys commands to keep hands visible.

I believe he was pulled over for a broken tail light.

 

[Caine]

I believe he was pulled over for a broken tail light.

Incorrect.

That is what the female told you. The police officer's dispatch information has the real facts on the manner.

 

[truthatallcost]

If I were a cop, I would insist on it.

There's already been many cases where the media were trying to stir up unrest in the black community, until police released body cam footage that showed a black suspect trying to kill someone.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

There are some people, for reasons like the MN shooting, that dont want to disclose they are carrying unless they have to. Oregon does not require notification.

Required or not you are putting your life in danger by surprising the officer with a concealed gun. This makes as much sense as walking out in front of a car because you have the right of way. You will be dead right.

I wonder myself if its smart to tell them you are armed right off the bat.

I would say 90% of the time informing the police of a weapon over surprising them is the better choice.

I can tell you for certain though. If I have a gun pointed at me for some petty **** like a broken tail light, me and the officer are going to have very loud words with each other.

That is a bad decision even when not carrying. If you get a cop all wound up and then surprise him with a concealed weapon you might be committing suicide. They are human and if you try hard enough you will cause them to make a mistake and you most likely will pay with your life.

To you it may be an insignificant broken taillight but to the officer that broken taillight may be part of the description of an armed robbers get away vehicle a few minutes earlier. The officer may believe he is pulling over a vehicle that belongs to an armed killer not you. I have had it happen to me. I was pulled over because my car was a yellow charger when the vehicle they were looking for was a yellow roadrunner. I was an MP on duty at the time.

 

[Casper]

I agree. Cameras today cost less than a Glock magazine fully loaded.

They certainly cost less than a lawsuit. The LEO I know have no problem with body cams. They work both ways.

All LEO's I know and have heard speak publically are all for the body cams it makes their job easier by recording interactions with the public and especially criminals and it protests them when there are false claims of abuse.

 

[Caine]

All LEO's I know and have heard speak publically are all for the body cams it makes their job easier by recording interactions with the public and especially criminals and it protests them when there are false claims of abuse.

Hell my dash cam did that to me once.

6 years on 3rd shift without a complaint...
My first week on 2nd shift, I got complained on as "racially profiling" because a pulled a vehicle over for speeding and the woman thought I racially profiled her because she was hispanic. She argued against the speeding but never once made any claims to me about being racially profiled. I got called into the Sgt's office and we reviewed the tape together and he stated that there was absolutely no evidence of anything she claimed so he found the complaint unsustained and we moved on.

 

[Crosscheck]

- Straight 'A' H.S. student.

- No criminal convictions, including misdemeanors.

- Worked the same job in the public schools for a decade straight since graduating from H.S.

- Valid CCW holder.

I've got to admit, it doesn't add up.

But I see why so many are video taping all police encounters. Can't blame them at all, and I'm beginning to think we all should - and live streaming, at that.

Don't know if there is data but would love to know what is the percentage of criminals who take the time to get a CCW permit.

 

[sangha]

Wow, I said exactly NONE of that in my post.

Maybe Lutherf doesn't understand what the word "often" means, as used in your post

The issue here Magg is that the cop is often more inclined to perceive a threat based on race and THAT's a problem.

 

[Casper]

Hell my dash cam did that to me once.

6 years on 3rd shift without a complaint...
My first week on 2nd shift, I got complained on as "racially profiling" because a pulled a vehicle over for speeding and the woman thought I racially profiled her because she was hispanic. She argued against the speeding but never once made any claims to me about being racially profiled. I got called into the Sgt's office and we reviewed the tape together and he stated that there was absolutely no evidence of anything she claimed so he found the complaint unsustained and we moved on.

And you prove my point, most Leo's Want cameras, it covers them also and believe me there are plenty of people that will use whatever opportunity they can to squeeze money out of the government and they do not give spit that their actions could destroy someone's career and personal life. It is all about ME these days and what I can get. The courts need to start punishing those that make false claims and file frivolous lawsuits, along with their lawyers.

 

[Chomsky]

Do you have a link to evidence that he was in fact a valid CCW holder?

Just curious because Ramsey Sheriff confirmed that Castille never applied for a CCW permit with them....this is the county of which everyone stated had issued his permit. And of course, CCW permit status is private in the state of Minnesota.

No I don't, and at the time of my post I was not aware of the Sheriff refuting this. I repeated what much of the media had been saying at the time.

I'm not aware of the Sheriff's statement, but you seem sincere and I see no reason to debate the point.

I'll take CCW holder off the table, until it gets clarified.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Chomsky]

Don't know if there is data but would love to know what is the percentage of criminals who take the time to get a CCW permit.

If they're serious criminals, it would seem they can't!

But his CCW may be in question, if you look at my reply to Caine above ...

 

[Caine]

No I don't, and at the time of my post I was not aware of the Sheriff refuting this. I repeated what much of the media had been saying at the time.

I'm not aware of the Sheriff's statement, but you seem sincere and I see no reason to debate the point.

I'll take CCW holder off the table, until it gets clarified.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Im not saying he DOESN'T have one... I was curious as well, and the only info is Ramsay Sheriff (which isn't the county this happened in btw) stated they didn't receive an application from him, and apparently the state won't tell anyone yea or nay on the subject due to their privacy laws.

I was hoping you had something to be honest

 

[Chomsky]

Im not saying he DOESN'T have one... I was curious as well, and the only info is Ramsay Sheriff (which isn't the county this happened in btw) stated they didn't receive an application from him, and apparently the state won't tell anyone yea or nay on the subject due to their privacy laws.

I was hoping you had something to be honest

Ah, I've nothing but the media and the emphatic g/f.

The g/f did look reasonably legit on video though, but that's sure as hell not proof.

 

[Mycroft]

In regards to the concealed carry issue, this link clarifies things. Bottom line, the victim had a CC permit at one time...in another county...but he moved and didn't follow the law in regards to notifying the Sheriff of the issuing county. His previous permit became invalid.

This link also details his criminal record and he had a history of driving without a license, insurance or vehicle registration.

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...ate-radio-dispatch-and-dash-cams/#more-118570


Now...I don't have any actual opinion about this event because I don't have all the facts. As far as I know, only the police department...and attorneys...do. Which leads to this:

Matt Finn just reported for Fox9 News in Minnesota confirming some details and adding a few more after discussion with Yanez attorney and investigators:

Officer Jeronimo Yanez is Mexican not Asian as claimed by Diamond Reynolds.
Philando Castile and Diamond Reynolds did not comply with instructions to keep their hands “up, visible and don’t move them”.
There was a handgun “visible” on the lap of Philando Castile
Officer Yanez reacted to the gun and Philando Castile’s movements.
Confirmation again that officer Yanez did pull over Castile and Reynolds as an outcome of Castile fitting the profile from the armed robbery July 2nd.



https://theconservativetreehouse.co...s-reacting-to-philando-castiles-gun-not-race/

 

[jonny5]

Body Armor didn't help my friends who were shot in the head on April 1, 2007 in Charlotte, NC while coming back to their vehicles after handling a Domestic Violence call.

The stupidity inherent in the idea that because cops have body armor they should allow lethal for to be used upon them before responding to it, rather than preventing its use when it is imminent is absurd.

No need to be rude. And I didnt say that. What I said was that they should be less quick to resort to lethal force, because they have protection and training. Their job, which they knew going in, is to put themselves in harms way to protect civilians. And they are provided with equipment, training, and authority, to reduce risk.

 

[gmeyers1944]

i am not wrong. Its all irrelevant to the standard of the law. And legally the cops are not charged with returning gun fire or running towards it. They aren't even charged with serving or protecting. Those are all just emotional justifications for why its ok for 'your team' to break the law. Its no wonder when the 'other team' breaks the law and doesn't give 2 ****s about our uproar.

it's their job!