Might it have been different?

[Socrates1]

Payback is hell isn't it.

Yes it is , yes it is !!! :lol: Can't wait for Jan.20 ! :lol:

 

[CrabCake]

It wasn't succesfull for our country or for the GOP. The GOP ended up with a horrible healthcare system, and Obummer ended up with two terms in office.

They took congress in the next election, they successfully blocked most of Obamas agenda even to the point of stealing a Supreme Court pick, and successfully convinced conservatives that Obama's presidency was a complete disaster. Their only failure was in their attempt to take back the white house in 2012.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

They took congress in the next election, they successfully blocked most of Obamas agenda even to the point of stealing a Supreme Court pick, and successfully convinced conservatives that Obama's presidency was a complete disaster. Their only failure was in their attempt to take back the white house in 2012.

Well, it was a disaster...

 

[ashurbanipal]

Yeah, I just don't get why anyone thinks Obama didn't try to reach out to Republicans.

Now, let me try to be reasonable and relate a story: when I was going my pedagogy class (de rigeur in doctoral programs), one of the things we looked at is how people from different cultures and backgrounds think about respect. Among academic professions, analytic philosophy has a reputation for its members being very argumentative. If I actually debate with someone, it's a sign of respect to someone with my background. It means I think the other person is smart enough that they'll provide an interesting sparring-session. But for some other backgrounds (religious studies, for instance), arguing a point is a sign of disrespect.

The point is that what you intend when you come at someone, and what they actually hear, are two different things. I've often found myself wondering at the things conservative posters on these boards find insulting. In some cases, I'm sure it's made up outrage, but in some cases, I'm sure it's sincere--and in some of those, I have absolutely no idea why someone would be offended. The same is true in the reverse, of course.

All of this is prelude to a point I've made often in the past (even when Obama was president): we're killing our nation with all this partisanism. Folks on both sides of the aisle need to come together to agree on a few commonsense points that would probably improve matters significantly.

 

[RetiredUSN]

They took congress in the next election, they successfully blocked most of Obamas agenda even to the point of stealing a Supreme Court pick, and successfully convinced conservatives that Obama's presidency was a complete disaster. Their only failure was in their attempt to take back the white house in 2012.

Harry Reid had 350 bills parked, and left to die on his desk.

Care to explain this so called blockage by the republicans, while ignoring the fact that Reid was a being world class azzhole with everyone outside his party??

 

[Linc]

A few individual republicans did, they were told that what they were suggesting wasn't "on the table", and were sent to bed like a little child (by the republican leadership).

Exactly--it will be difficult for the GOP to learn how to say YES since they haven't been able to agree with each other for 8 years during their civil war .

 

[Grand Mal]

Yes it is , yes it is !!! :lol: Can't wait for Jan.20 ! :lol:

Let the good times roll!

 

[Linc]

Name one with a verifiable link...

the denial, diversion game when you know the answer

 

[AlabamaPaul]

the denial, diversion game when you know the answer

Yes, I know the answer which is why I posted it...

 

[Perotista]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

I think without the ACA, the Democrats would have never lost the House in 2010. Here are the polls from back then.

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the Senate passed it in November of 2009 National 38.2% for, 52.6% against:
CNN/Opinion Research 12/2-12/3 36% for 61% Against/Oppose +25
Rasmussen Reports 11/29 - 11/29 41% for 53% Against/Oppose +12
Gallup 11/20-11/22 44% for 49% Against/Oppose +5
Ipsos/McClatchy 11/19 - 11/22 34% for 46% Against/Oppose +12
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 38% for 56% Against/Oppose +18
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 35% for 51% Against/Oppose +16
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12

Below are the polls thanks to RCP of public opinion on the ACA when the House passed it in March of 2010 National average 38.0% for, 53.1% against
Bloomberg 3/19 - 3/22 38% for 50% Against/Oppose +12
CNN/Opinion Research 3/19 - 3/21 39% for 59% Against/Oppose +20
CBS News 3/18 - 3/21 37% for 48% Against/Oppose +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/19 - 3/20 41% for 54% Against/Oppose +13
Quinnipiac 3/16 - 3/21 36% for 54% Against/Oppose +18
Democracy Corps (D) 3/15 - 3/18 40% for 52% Against/Oppose +12
FOX News 3/16 - 3/17 35% 55% Against/Oppose +20

The majority of Americans definitely stated they opposed the ACA which Obama and the Democrats failed to listen to them and did what they did best. Ignored the American public in favor of a political agenda, basically telling America to stick it where the sun don't shine. America bit back in the 2010 elections.

Most Americans, especially those in the middle like little steps. Usually a political party can achieve its agenda by taking it slow and easy, a step here, a step there and no backlash. It is when a political party goes whole hog that gets them in trouble.

Look at Obama's approval rating, pre-ACA it was at 55%. Once the senate passed the ACA it dropped to 45% pretty much stayed there through the 2010 elections. Going against the will and wishes of the American people with this one piece of legislation probably caused all the hard times Obama has had to face. It sure cost him the House.

 

[Linc]

Senator Schumer has been vocal about something for over a week now but it wouldn't surprise me if he was just blowing smoke again. He even came up with he cute catch phase . :roll:

So now that Reid is gone, it's time to rhetorically shoot down the next DEM leader in Sen. Schumer.

Maybe you haven't figured out that holding the triumvirate means you have to do your own homework.

GOP house members haven't been able to agree with each other for 6+ years in power .

 

[Grand Mal]

Exactly--it will be difficult for the GOP to learn how to say YES since they haven't been able to agree with each other for 8 years during their civil war .

This thread...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa.../275700-selective-outrage.html#post1066761071

is about a CNN report that says that a former British intelligence agent, now a private contractor, was hired during the primaries by Republicans opposed to Trump to dig dirt on Donald.

"The raw memos on which the synopsis is based were prepared by the former MI6 agent, who was posted in Russia in the 1990s and now runs a private intelligence gathering firm. His investigations related to Mr. Trump were initially funded by groups and donors supporting Republican opponents of Mr. Trump during the GOP primaries, multiple sources confirmed to CNN. Those sources also said that once Mr. Trump became the nominee, further investigation was funded by groups and donors supporting Hillary Clinton."

D'ya think Trump will let this pass?

 

[Baralis]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

It may have had a slightly better outcome but in the end it would have still been garbage with overly high costs. The republicans in DC have shown very little interest in lowering the cost of healthcare but instead take a different stance and that is to remove government from the health care industry and let the *cough* "free market" correct costs but what they really mean is they do not wish bureaucrats to get in the way of profits made in the the multi trillion dollar health care industry.

There are several things that could be done (that I will not get into here) that could (imo) vastly lower medical costs in the US, but much like GW solutions, no one in Washington or the medical industry would be interested because it would mean great loss of revenue which is all either care about and not ultimately about fixing our medical system.

 

[Henrin]

The whole thing was something democrats forced on the table from the beginning and not something most republicans were open to talking about.

 

[Chomsky]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

Before ObamaCare is declared a "mess", I think we need to keep two things in mind:

1] Let's not forget the worse mess we were in before ObamaCare.

2] Let's see how much TrumpCare improves the "mess".

Only when we've had time to compare what transpired before, and after ObamaCare, can we then contextually define it.

It's kinda' like the guy that thinks he's unhappy with the burdens of his marriage, and subsequently runs-off with his younger & single free-spirited girlfriend. Only to find-out later, the girlfriend is even worse than his wife when they're no longer dating but moved-in!

(I've seen the last happen several times IRL)

 

[RAMOSS]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

He did try to get it.. he got nothing but resistance.

 

[Deuce]

Name one with a verifiable link...

Obama says health plan incorporates the ideas of Democrats and Republicans | PolitiFact

159 amendments, mostly minor technical details.

Weird that they were willing to do that but not offer anything substantive.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Obama indeed had that summit. I watched a lot of it. There were a lot of speeches by a lot of people, there was pretense of hearing everybody out, and in the end nothing came of it but the Democrats, with a filibuster proof majority, pushed through a bill that not a single Republican could vote for and even 39 Democrats in the House would not support. No important Republican amendments were allowed by the Democratic majority. The GOP was completely shut out of the process.

And from that point on the GOP dealt with this kind of mentality:

 

[Velvet Elvis]

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

It wasn't so much that Obama alienated Republicans, or was hyper-partisan. The man is a wannabe king. He alienates anyone who doesn't agree with him. He probably got a chub every time he signed an executive order. Each one was his little taste of being a tin-pot dictator.

 

[vash1012]

You can not like Obamacare if you want to. That's fine. I had plenty of criticisms about it when it came out and still do...but it took a crap ton of courage to pass it. America is not good at sweeping reform. We are much more suited to incremental change, but our healthcare insurance system was a dangerous disaster. Incremental change couldn't fix it. The Republicans were asked about their opinion, but they were not offering anything that would have made a difference. Selling insurance across state lines? Useless. Only people who don't understand anything about building a provider network think that would do any good. 1000 dollar tax credits? Doesn't help the people who are going bankrupt. I don't think Obamacare is a long term solution to our nations problems by any means but it is a better plan to address the problem by far than anything that's come out of the republicans. The opposition to Obamacare is so ridiculously partisan. THAT's why we are in this mess right now. Because of a crap ton of misinformation swirling around mixed in with some legitimate criticisms and 6 years of Republican/Fox News demonization of the word "Obamacare". Now we are on the verge of repealing an effective, but flawed, legislation without any consensus on a realistic alternative.

 

[Linc]

100% GOP obstruction and false-equivalence began in Cantor's DC office on the night of the election 11/4/2008.

By the summer of 2009, coordinated attacks on DEM town halls with the tea party and FOX had begun.

I'm surprised that GOPosters aren't bragging about how they took over, instead of blatantly lying about Obama and diverting from the crooked and incompetent trump and GOP congress .

 

[Praxas]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

Republicnas flat out refused. They didn't want ANY ACA under Obama. This is the same group of Republicans that said their goal was to make Obama a one-term president. Hell, Obama even modeled it after Romneycare. There is NOTHING OBama could have presented to Republicans that they would agree or support unless it was his resignation. They were truly the party of NO.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

He did try to get it.. he got nothing but resistance.

He also made it clear, even before he got elected, that his goal was universal, single payer healthcare. He even went so far as to elaborate how it would be a "stepped" process. It was no secret to anyone that "Obamacare" was just the first step.

 

[Grim17]

If Obama had sought Republican input for Obamacare, took a year to court Republicans, listened to their suggestions, would we be in this God-awful mess?

Had he not said things like, "Elections have consequences," and "I've got a pen and a phone..." would we be in a better position today?

Should Obama have focused on containing medical costs in a bipartisan way rather than jumping in to universal healthcare?

Im not sure anything like this has ever happened before in the history of our country. We're in a mess. It promises to get worse before it gets better.

I lean to blaming Obama's partisan stance in 2008, alienating Republicans beyond all redemption.

You?

I blame not just Obama, but the entirety of the democratic party, especially Harry Reid for using the nuclear option to get that piece of crap passed.

Who would have ever believed that an entire political party from the president on down would pass into law the largest government spending bill in history, taking over 1/6 of the nations economy, without one of them ever reading the damned thing before enacting it? That politically self serving act was the single most irresponsible, incompetent and economically devastating action ever taken by a group of elected officials in the history of the Republic. It marked the end of political cooperation between the parties and in my view, changed the democratic party from opposition, to a threat to the nation itself.

That may seem to some as an extreme perspective, but just look at what's taken place since the democrats shoved the ACA down the American people's throats.

In the nearly 7 years since the passing of the ACA, the American people have spoken at the ballot box. The democrats have lost 68 house seats, 12 senate seats, 10 governorships and over 900 state legislators seats. That is a clear and unmistakable message from the people that they don't agree with the direction the democratic party is taking the country in. This has left the democratic party with 2 choices... Either make adjustments and alter their course so that they are more in tune with the people they wish to represent, or continue on their same path of doing what ever it takes to force their political agenda on the American people. The former is what a political party does to serve the country and it's people, while the latter is what a party does when it wants to force an agenda on the country, irregardless if the American people support that agenda or not.

If you step back and take a look at what democrats and their supporters have done, and what they haven't done over the last 7 years, what the party represents becomes clear. They haven't changed their platform or their political agenda in any way. In fact, they have continued skewing left, farther and farther from mainstream America. They still oppose enforcing federal immigration law, oppose securing our borders. still defend passing the ACA even though it's falling apart at the seams, and still insist the 2009 stimulus wasn't a colossal trillion dollar government failure. Instead of presenting practical and popular ideas, the democrats have engaged in a strategy of national division to gain votes, using racial politics to demean and silence those who oppose them. From Cambridge. to Trayvon Martin, to Michael Brown, to the BLM movement, democrats and their allies in the MSM have exploited every situation they have come across to sew the seeds of discontent and national division with accusations of racism. Their goal over the last 7 years has been to brand white people, especially white conservatives and white authority figures, as inherently racist and a threat to all ethnic minorities in America. Add to all that, their words and actions toward Donald Trump and anyone who supports him, both before and after the election, and it's abundantly clear that democrats intend to force their political agenda on the American people, even if it means tearing the country apart to do so.

The Democrats believe their agenda to be more important than serving the people, and have engaged in the dishonest strategy of racial division to achieve this. It's destroying the nation from within, and if that doesn't qualify as a national threat, then I don't know what does.

 

[imagep]

He also made it clear, even before he got elected, that his goal was universal, single payer healthcare. He even went so far as to elaborate how it would be a "stepped" process. It was no secret to anyone that "Obamacare" was just the first step.

Yup, and now Trump, who has been a long time supporter of universal health care, will likely take the next step, and stupid conservatives will think that socialized health care is a conservative idea.