Middle finger protected by the constitution - US court

[Wan]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Guys can we please get back on topic?

Anyway, about the case. I am not sure about all the facts yet so I could be wrong but if the cop gave her the ticket, it could be because she was speeding, not because she offended him. If she claims that she was fined for being rude, she needs to prove it. Some poster said it well, it was the cop's discretion to decide on whether to give someone a ticket. He could choose to withdraw leniency for any reason.

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

I think that "Agent J" can stand on my prior responses, and I hereby give "Agent J" licence to C&P them.

:lamo
You had no valid prior response that refute what I presented.
You even wrongly tried to claim that Western culture wasn't inclusive of the US. Yeah he should stand on that.
iLOL

Since I have already provided evidence that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

At no point have you shown the gesture is not considered offensive in Western culture as the information I provided shows.


Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.
So stop with the dishonesty.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

:lamo
You had no valid prior response that refute what I presented.
You even wrongly tried to claim that Western culture wasn't inclusive of the US. Yeah he should stand on that.
iLOL


At no point have you shown the gesture is not considered offensive in Western culture as the information I provided shows.


Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.
So stop with the dishonesty.

Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

You did not dispute what I provided. So stop with the lies.
Nothing in your post @120 supports your claim.
Again.
An individual not finding a gesture offensive does not mean it isn't an offensive gesture.

So either admit you are wrong or push on with your lies.

Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.
So stop with the dishonesty.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Wrong as usual, lying in reply, and delusional commentary to boot.
We are still waiting for you to refute the information provided and for you to support your delusional false commentary.


Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

Refute the information provided or push on with your absurd lies.

Still waiting. opcorn2:

you didnt post anything that supports your false claims, in fact what you posted proves me right and your lies wrong LMAO

if you disagree i directly challenge you to PLEASE simply post one fact that makes the avatar:

Factually offensive
factually purposely offensive
and quote my lie and prove it

we'll be waiting, thanks!

 

[AGENT J]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

I think that "Agent J" can stand on my prior responses, and I hereby give "Agent J" licence to C&P them.
...

the only thing that needs stood on are facts and the fact remains his claim were already proven wrong hence why nobody agrees and multiple posters pointed out. Thats the best part, NOTHING can be said to make his claims true, nothing. Offense is subjective hence his claims can never be true. At this point its just entertainment for me to continue to point out the facts, its so much fun i love it.

 

[marke]

From News 24

Middle finger protected by the constitution - US court
​

When it comes to the middle finger, police might need a thicker skin.

A federal appeals court says a Michigan woman's constitutional rights were violated when she was handed a speeding ticket after giving the finger to a suburban Detroit officer in 2017. The decision means a lawsuit by Debra Cruise-Gulyas can proceed.

In a 3-0 decision on Wednesday, the court said Taylor Officer Matthew Minard "should have known better", even if the driver was rude.

COMMENT:-

A victory for the voice of the voiceless?
​

Democrats have a lot to cackle about every time a court makes a bad decision in favor of the wicked and opposed to the good.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

You did not dispute what I provided. So stop with the lies.
Nothing in your post @120 supports your claim.
Again.
An individual not finding a gesture offensive does not mean it isn't an offensive gesture.

So either admit you are wrong or push on with your lies.

Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.
So stop with the dishonesty.

Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

the only thing that needs stood on are facts and the fact remains his claim were already proven wrong hence why nobody agrees and multiple posters pointed out. Thats the best part, NOTHING can be said to make his claims true, nothing. Offense is subjective hence his claims can never be true. At this point its just entertainment for me to continue to point out the facts, its so much fun i love it.

Indeed, he is a 7th Dan Black Belt in the ancient oriental art of "Isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-isto-sothere".

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Do you know why some forums prohibit, or automatically censor the word which the gesture in part represents?
It is becasue it is offensive.

you didnt post anything that supports your false claims, in fact what you posted proves me right and your lies wrong

Lies from an idiot. Go figure.

if you disagree i directly challenge you to PLEASE simply post one fact that makes the avatar:

Factually offensive
factually purposely offensive
and quote my lie and prove it

we'll be waiting, thanks!

As what I posted refutes your nonsense, it looks like you will be waiting for an eternity.


Again.

Refute the information provided or push on with your absurd lies.​

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Do you know why some forums prohibit, or automatically censor the word which the gesture in part represents?
It's becasue it is offensive.

[SUP]Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".[/SUP]

Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

Do you know why some forums prohibit, or automatically censor the word which the gesture in part represents?
It's becasue it is offensive.



Again.

In Western culture, the finger or the middle finger (as in giving someone the (middle) finger or the bird[1] or flipping someone off),[1] is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** off", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself".
The finger | Wiki​

An obscene gesture is a movement or position of the body, especially of the hands or arms, that is considered exceedingly offensive or vulgar in some particular cultures. Such gestures are often sexually suggestive.
Obscene gesture | Wiki​

You have not and could not refute that information.

Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".

PPPPS - Thank you for validating the second paragraph of my earlier post.

 

[TomFitz]

From News 24

Middle finger protected by the constitution - US court
​

When it comes to the middle finger, police might need a thicker skin.

A federal appeals court says a Michigan woman's constitutional rights were violated when she was handed a speeding ticket after giving the finger to a suburban Detroit officer in 2017. The decision means a lawsuit by Debra Cruise-Gulyas can proceed.

In a 3-0 decision on Wednesday, the court said Taylor Officer Matthew Minard "should have known better", even if the driver was rude.

COMMENT:-

A victory for the voice of the voiceless?
​

I’m sure that Trump must be relieved.

 

[Bodi]

Excellent use of the court's resources, settling the big issues of the day.

Free Speech and Police Abuse is EXTREMELY important.

I got a ticket 30 years ago when a cop thought I was laughing at him. He was driving by and my friend and I didn't even see him, we were laughing like idiots over stupid jokes, or something, I noticed the cop staring at me as he drove by. The light turned green for me, I drove down the road only to have the cop do a u-turn, speed up and pull me over. His threat? "Next time you laugh at me you won't get off this easy".

Out of control, lying rage cops need to shut their ****ing mouths, do their job and not harass people that are NOT breaking any laws.

 

[Bodi]

Awesome. My avatar thanks the court.

:lol:

I was just about to sue you, too. Damn my procrastination!!

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I’m sure that Trump must be relieved.

If I am working in a machine shop and a defective machine cuts off the middle finger of my hand while I am doing something that I have been told specifically not to do, can I sue for a "violation of my constitutional rights"?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Free Speech and Police Abuse is EXTREMELY important.

I got a ticket 30 years ago when a cop thought I was laughing at him. He was driving by and my friend and I didn't even see him, we were laughing like idiots over stupid jokes, or something, I noticed the cop staring at me as he drove by. The light turned green for me, I drove down the road only to have the cop do a u-turn, speed up and pull me over. His threat? "Next time you laugh at me you won't get off this easy".

Out of control, lying rage cops need to shut their ****ing mouths, do their job and not harass people that are NOT breaking any laws.

"Family of man killed by trooper seeking more than $10M"

I expect that (amongst other things) the statement of defence will claim that the police officer feared for his life because he believed that the young man was going to stab him through the car door (or closed car window).

Since (when applied to police officers) the "belief" that there is a danger of imminent bodily harm and/or death need NOT be "reasonable" this defence should prevail. Now if you or I were to shoot someone through a closed car door and claim that we believed that there is a danger of imminent bodily harm and/or death in our statement of defence we'd be laughed out of court and have a whacking great damage award made against us.

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

:laughat:

[SUP]Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".

PPPPS - Thank you for validating the second paragraph of my earlier post.[/SUP]

And again, while still being wrong as usual and lying, you have failed to refute the information I provided. Figures.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

:laughat:And again, while still being wrong as usual and lying, you have failed to refute the information I provided. Figures.

Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".

PPPPS - Thank you for validating the second paragraph of my earlier post.

 

[Excon]

Re: AGENT J's delusional commentary

:laughat:

[SUP]Since I have already provided evidence (please see Post 120 in this thread) that "flipping the bird" is NOT considered to be either obscene or offensive in ALL parts of "Western Culture", I don't see any reason why I should have to do so again - simply because you don't want to acknowledge that fact.

After all, if I do present that evidence again, you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will simply ignore it again and then ask me to present it again, after which you will ...

PS - Did you know that "American culture" and "Western culture" do NOT mean the same thing?

PPS - Do you know where your "I know you are, but what am I?" style of "debate" belongs?

PPPS - Please look up the meaning of the word "dispute".

PPPPS - Thank you for validating the second paragraph of my earlier post.[/SUP]

And again, while still being wrong as usual and lying, you have failed to refute the information I provided. Just another day with the same addled and failed addled bs from you. Figures.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Yeah, but my understanding is he gave her a speeding ticket that he had apparently previously decided not to give her (before she flipped the bird,) so it seems to me the question is: "Can a cop respond to rudeness by withdrawing leniency?"

We empower them to grant leniency, so the answer must be yes, they can withhold or withdraw it.

A rule against withdrawing it in the face of rudeness wouldn't be enforceable in the vast majority of situations anyhow, at least until we can read minds.

This is an appeal filed by the lady to protect her right to be rude and recover damages from receiving an enhanced speeding ticket?

It doesn't strike me as anything close to a important issue. Complete waste of resources on all sides.

interestingly, you just described a legal argument (or at least described the issue).

 

[Peter King]

:lamo
Says you, the one making silly replies.

Do you have anythgin yet to refute the information provided?

​

If not, push on with your silliness.

But Western culture does not matter, this is a case of legality. That someone thinks it is offensive/obscene does not mean anything to the law. It is not obscene under the relevant Supreme Court precedent, and that is the only legal opinion that counts. People can think of a lot of things as of being obscene, but that is down to personal sensibilities, and nobody has to live up to what someone else is offended by. Especially not in a legal sense.

 

[Excon]

But Western culture does not matter, this is a case of legality. That someone thinks it is offensive/obscene does not mean anything to the law. It is not obscene under the relevant Supreme Court precedent, and that is the only legal opinion that counts. People can think of a lot of things as of being obscene, but that is down to personal sensibilities, and nobody has to live up to what someone else is offended by. Especially not in a legal sense.

You clearly do not understand what is going on here and should gracefully bow out before you make further foolish commentary.

 

[Peter King]

You clearly do not understand what is going on here and should gracefully bow out before you make further foolish commentary.

There is nothing foolish about the legal determination that the middle finger is not obscene. Offensive yes, obscene Nope.

 

[Excon]

There is nothing foolish about the legal determination that the middle finger is not obscene. Offensive yes, obscene Nope.

More foolish commentary from you. Figures.
It is foolish in you trying to make the court ruling applicable to the discourse I am involved in.

Like I said; You clearly do not understand what is going on here and should gracefully bow out.
I realize you need help in figuring it out, so here. Go to the first page.