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Methodist church rejects gay clergy and marriage.

RAMOSS said:
The part of the bible that counts doesn't say, one way or another.
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Quite the contrary...the whole theme of the Hebrew Scriptures is regarding Jehovah God's promise of a paradise earth for righteous mankind...

Genesis 1:28; Genesis 2:15-17; Psalm 37:11,29,34; Psalm 72:16; Psalm 104:5; Psalm 115:16; Proverbs 2:21; Isaiah 11:1-5,9; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 45:18; Micah 4:1-4

The whole idea of anyone going to heaven was not introduced until Jesus came and the Christian Greek Scriptures were written...it was at that time, the selection of the 144,000 joint heirs of Jesus Christ who will all be “happy and holy” by having part in the “first resurrection,” who would reign in heaven with Christ, began...Hebrews 3:1; Philippians 3:4; Acts 15:14; Revelation 20:4-6...

Peter explained that even faithful King David had died and was still in his tomb...David did not ascend into heaven...Acts 2:29, 34...

Those who died before Jesus, such as David, John the Baptist, and other men of faith, did not go to heaven because they died before Jesus introduced the possibility for humans to be resurrected to heavenly life...Luke 7:28-30; John 3:13...

Paul wrote that Jesus, the forerunner of the heavenly hope, “inaugurated a new and living way” into heaven.​..Hebrews 6:19, 20; 9:24; 10:19, 20...
 
Elvira said:
Quite the contrary...the whole theme of the Hebrew Scriptures is regarding Jehovah God's promise of a paradise earth for righteous mankind...

Genesis 1:28; Genesis 2:15-17; Psalm 37:11,29,34; Psalm 72:16; Psalm 104:5; Psalm 115:16; Proverbs 2:21; Isaiah 11:1-5,9; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 45:18; Micah 4:1-4

The whole idea of anyone going to heaven was not introduced until Jesus came and the Christian Greek Scriptures were written...it was at that time, the selection of the 144,000 joint heirs of Jesus Christ who will all be “happy and holy” by having part in the “first resurrection,” who would reign in heaven with Christ, began...Hebrews 3:1; Philippians 3:4; Acts 15:14; Revelation 20:4-6...

Peter explained that even faithful King David had died and was still in his tomb...David did not ascend into heaven...Acts 2:29, 34...

Those who died before Jesus, such as David, John the Baptist, and other men of faith, did not go to heaven because they died before Jesus introduced the possibility for humans to be resurrected to heavenly life...Luke 7:28-30; John 3:13...

Paul wrote that Jesus, the forerunner of the heavenly hope, “inaugurated a new and living way” into heaven.​..Hebrews 6:19, 20; 9:24; 10:19, 20...
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I notice you love to do lists, rather than discuss the various passages in detail. Most of the time, the passages you quote don't say what you say they say.

And,I don't care what Paul said.
 
RAMOSS said:
I notice you love to do lists, rather than discuss the various passages in detail. Most of the time, the passages you quote don't say what you say they say.

And,I don't care what Paul said.
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Read them for yourself or not...what they're saying is obvious...
 
Elvira said:
Read them for yourself or not...what they're saying is obvious...
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I have...and they are obvious, and you are wrong.
 
Elvira said:
What was it you said about Paul? :2razz:
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That, I don't care what Paul says. He's not God. He actually fits the profile of a con man pretty well.
 
the Bible clearly does not allow for gay marriage and a pastor should not be living an unrepentant sinful lifestyle.
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Methodist church has the right stuff.
No needing to referenced the Bible but with respect but I say it should not be allowed.
 
VanceMack said:
I do not judge others...not in the least. Not my place.
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if you don't believe are good or evil at all then that's true

if you do have any sense or morality that's false


if you belve things are good or evil based on faith then you judge others based on faith
 
VanceMack said:
God has already told people what sin is. You have no obligation to believe it. Thats the beauty of agency.
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this looks like judging others based on faith unless do you mean sin is not god or evil but just what your god dislikes and it told you this in person
 
VanceMack said:
I get it. You guys are pretty desperate tyo pick and choose which verse helps you best maintain the lie that there is no sin. You like Jesus when he said Do unto others..... but you just want to ignore Jesus when he says to the prostitute who he had just forgiven...Sin no more....

Hey...if you think it is going to work for you...have at it.
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which verse was shown to be from a god going to need that before we can get into whats the truth about what the god has said

did a god tell you prostitution was a sin?
 
VanceMack said:
Indeed. But that does not allow for sin. Sorry...no matter how desperately you try, you cant escape reality.
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it dosent allow for you to declare someone a sinner based on faith it would be fair if a god has actually had a conversation with you


though at that point we would need to hash out if every one condmeing what you do as evil because some one said its evil is how you want to be treated

unless god provided its reasoning and said reasoning prevod top be sound despite any arguments against it
 
PTF said:
Methodist church has the right stuff.
No needing to referenced the Bible but with respect but I say it should not be allowed.
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oh why?
 
blarg said:
it dosent allow for you to declare someone a sinner based on faith it would be fair if a god has actually had a conversation with you


though at that point we would need to hash out if every one condmeing what you do as evil because some one said its evil is how you want to be treated

unless god provided its reasoning and said reasoning prevod top be sound despite any arguments against it
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I dont declare you a sinner. God does. Your actions do. But thats not my role.
 
blarg said:
which verse was shown to be from a god going to need that before we can get into whats the truth about what the god has said

did a god tell you prostitution was a sin?
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Oh, baby...you need to read the Bible.
 
blarg said:
this looks like judging others based on faith unless do you mean sin is not god or evil but just what your god dislikes and it told you this in person
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No...what this looks like is you roiling in anger trying to divert attention from sin by blaming others. Its a petty and sad act. Im not sure who you think you are fooling, because you arent even fooling yourself.
 
blarg said:
if you don't believe are good or evil at all then that's true

if you do have any sense or morality that's false


if you belve things are good or evil based on faith then you judge others based on faith
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You dont make sense...at all.

God judges people. Gods laws establish the baseline for morality. You arent wrangling with me. You arent wrangling with the judgement of man. You are wrangling with God and ultimately, yourself.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I love how in this article there is a lot of talk about who’s attending Sunday services and not any about the Bible. Unrepentant homosexuality is a sin, you will be condemned for it. A church that is willing to tell people not to repent and follow God’s teaching is like a Doctor that tells you not to change your diet when you are very overweight.

It is very concerning that had it not been for the Black African delegates they might’ve opened the door to changing the policy. If you’re in a Methodist congregation in the US you need to consider leaving, a church that tells you unbiblical things is bad for your spiritual health. This should never have even been discussed because the Bible clearly does not allow for gay marriage and a pastor should not be living an unrepentant sinful lifestyle.

Traditionalists prevail in United Methodist Church sexuality conversation | News | themountaineer.com
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This comes down to separation of Church and State. Homosexuality is a State matter. The State cannot impose its religious beliefs on Churches, anymore than a Church can force everyone, including atheists, to genuflect to the cross. Separation of Church and State was not designed for just the atheists, like a two headed coin. There is head and tails.

Separation was designed more with needs of religious freedom in mind, than state freedom. The original 13 colonies, stemmed primarily from England, where the King controlled the Church. The King, via the Church of England had to much state control over religion. The King could impose tithes or taxes for military ambitions. America was first settled by people escaping the heavy hand of the state that was pressing down on religion. The Democrats want to go back to monarchy rule, with socialism the first step, to a monarchy dictatorship. Look how Venezuela progressed from free to dictator. The Democrat and atheists prefer the King of England model of religion and not the Constitutional Model.

In terms of ancient history, humans did not always have modern science and medicine. Behavior that was unsanitary, 2000 years ago, would often lead to incurable diseases that could impact the individual and group, with no science or medicine to treat or cure the disease. The life expectancy was very low. Back when the bible was written, Gay behavior was around, but it had a bad reputation for disease, with no way to cure it.

We can reverse engineer these ancient observations, by running a simple experiment. In this experiment, we could recruit 1000 Gay volunteers who will willingly stop using anything preventive, or any treatment that that was not available 2000 year ago. This means no condoms, no clinics, and no medicines or creams of any kind. You need to engage in the behavior as normal, and let nature take its course. If this behavior is part of natural selection, the diseases will avoid you, and you will become healthier. If this is not part of natural selection, nature will let you know by an adverse backlash reaction.

The ancients did not run this experiment, in scientific way with lab coats. However, they could watch this in real time. The taboo was not so much a value judgement, but more of an observation and concerned warning, that this behavior was not part of natural selection, since it bred diseases that led to reverse natural selection. The wage of sin is death, was not a metaphor, but an observed result. The taboo was there to save lives, not to be a bully. If some of your best people are dying, and you infer the source, you try to help.

The problem is modern medicine allows humans to practice all variations of unnatural behavior. Science can provide ways to compensate and mop up the mess. There is big bucks to be made in the unnatural behavior remedy market. This mop creates confusion in terms of the original intent of religion. Natural behavior, as part of natural selection, is self standing and does not need propping up by science. On the other hand, science can create an illusion, with mops, thereby create subjective confusion.

Many older religions maintain the natural path, as defined by natural having no need for science mops. Nature does not need science to prop it up. Go to any forest and see how this is self standing. Nature and its natural ways is considered of God's creation. Science, like genetically modified corn, may improve natural vigor, but there is concern among naturalists that there will be side affects when, you prop up unnatural and call this better than natural.
 
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blarg said:
if you don't believe are good or evil at all then that's true

if you do have any sense or morality that's false


if you belve things are good or evil based on faith then you judge others based on faith
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So, you have no morals...got it...
 
VanceMack said:
You dont make sense...at all.

God judges people. Gods laws establish the baseline for morality. You arent wrangling with me. You arent wrangling with the judgement of man. You are wrangling with God and ultimately, yourself.
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All morality and all laws come from man. All books come from man. All societies and all the rules of societies come from man. God is a man made concept, not a source of morality or law.
 
devildavid said:
All morality and all laws come from man. All books come from man. All societies and all the rules of societies come from man. God is a man made concept, not a source of morality or law.
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God Bless America...it’s a free country and you are free to it believe in God if that’s your choice.


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