Methodist church rejects gay clergy and marriage.

[joko104]

Don't like it, don't be a Methodist. Problem solved. The Methodist church does not reject or remove homosexuals from membership. Rather, they are continuing to not allow gay ministers or to conduct same sex marriages.

All mainstream churches that adopt modern social values are dying.

 

[Logicman]

And the other things that god explicitly condemns in the bible? And the punishments for them that he demands per the bible? I'm sure you're familar with the list.

Yes, the list is long. But there's a great antidote in the salvation of Jesus Christ.

One thing, though - people have to repent of their sins (Luke 13:3). When have you ever heard of a dedicated gay sex individual repent of their sin(s)? Unless they repent, they will perish.

 

[kitsune]

Yes, the list is long. But there's a great antidote in the salvation of Jesus Christ.

One thing, though - people have to repent of their sins (Luke 13:3). When have you ever heard of a dedicated gay sex individual repent of their sin(s)? Unless they repent, they will perish.

Oh, okay. So is being sexually attracted to one of the same sex a sin? Or is it only a sin when you act on it? And if you later repent of the action, are you off the hook?

 

[kitsune]

Irrelevant, claiming someone else violates a different commandment is not a defense for your own shortcomings

I'm not using it as a defense. I don't need a defense. I'm not a Christian. For me, my homosexuality is not a moral failing.

I am asking for the reasoning behind excluding gays from, in this case, the Methodist ministry, when they seem ready to cut you some slack on myriad other sins in the Bible, many of which carry the death penalty.

I'm also trying to figure out whether admitting to having same-sex attraction (and lying is a sin) will keep you out of the pulpit even if you have never acted on this attraction. And do masturbatory fantasies count against you? Lusting in your mind and all that.

It's all academic for me. Just looking for clarification.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'm not using it as a defense. I don't need a defense. I'm not a Christian. For me, my homosexuality is not a moral failing.

I’ve found most people who aren’t religious don’t recognize anything as a moral failing. Except not recycling or “racism” (which is never defined)

am asking for the reasoning behind excluding gays from, in this case, the Methodist ministry, when they seem ready to cut you some slack on myriad other sins in the Bible, many of which carry the death penalty.

Technically it’s not excluding “gays” it’s excluding open or practicing homosexuals. Homosexual behavior is condemned, as is all sin but the important thing is repentance. If someone is an open practicing homosexual no repentance is possible since that person refuses to recognize their open sinful behavior and a pastor engaging in this tells the congregation this sin is actually acceptable and thus causes them to risk their souls. It would be wrong to hire a pastor who’s shacking up with a woman he’s not married to or hiring a prostitute or engaging in an affair. It would be wrong to hire a pastor who’s dealing drugs, it would be wrong to hire a minister who’s engaging in making pornography. Now someone who did this in the past and has properly repented and abstains from this behavior is different, but someone shameless and continually in the present doing it is not suitable for ministry.

I'm also trying to figure out whether admitting to having same-sex attraction (and lying is a sin) will keep you out of the pulpit even if you have never acted on this attraction. And do masturbatory fantasies count against you? Lusting in your mind and all that.

Lying per se is not a sin, bearing false witness is. If you struggle with same sex attraction but do not act on it nor endorse it there is no problem, at least not biblically, I don’t know the ins and outs of Methodist policy to the letter as I am a Catholic.
Masturbation is a sin, I largely gave it up and the handful of times I’ve done it I go to confession.

It's all academic for me. Just looking for clarification.

That’s fine.

 

[Daisy]

I'm not using it as a defense. I don't need a defense. I'm not a Christian. For me, my homosexuality is not a moral failing.

I am asking for the reasoning behind excluding gays from, in this case, the Methodist ministry, when they seem ready to cut you some slack on myriad other sins in the Bible, many of which carry the death penalty.

I'm also trying to figure out whether admitting to having same-sex attraction (and lying is a sin) will keep you out of the pulpit even if you have never acted on this attraction. And do masturbatory fantasies count against you? Lusting in your mind and all that.

It's all academic for me. Just looking for clarification.

If you are not a Christian, why should you care? But since you asked, I will tell you what Jesus said...the same principle applies to all immoral sex...

"But I say to you that everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

 

[Logicman]

Oh, okay. So is being sexually attracted to one of the same sex a sin? Or is it only a sin when you act on it? And if you later repent of the action, are you off the hook?

Not only is engaging in gay sex a sin, but lusting about it in one's mind is a sin also. Note Matthew 5:28 -

"That whosoever looks on a married woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." So, engaging in unbiblical sex (adultery, fornication, gay sex) in one's mind is a sin also.

The remedy: Repent of one's sins and receive Jesus Christ as one's Savior, and ask the Holy Spirit to keep mind and body clean. That may take a lifetime but one will see changes if they're sincere.

 

[RAMOSS]

Not only is engaging in gay sex a sin, but lusting about it in one's mind is a sin also. Note Matthew 5:28 -

"That whosoever looks on a married woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." So, engaging in unbiblical sex (adultery, fornication, gay sex) in one's mind is a sin also.

The remedy: Repent of one's sins and receive Jesus Christ as one's Savior, and ask the Holy Spirit to keep mind and body clean. That may take a lifetime but one will see changes if they're sincere.

Salvation.. a snake oil cure for a disease that does not exist.

 

[kitsune]

Not only is engaging in gay sex a sin, but lusting about it in one's mind is a sin also. Note Matthew 5:28 -

"That whosoever looks on a married woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." So, engaging in unbiblical sex (adultery, fornication, gay sex) in one's mind is a sin also.

The remedy: Repent of one's sins and receive Jesus Christ as one's Savior, and ask the Holy Spirit to keep mind and body clean. That may take a lifetime but one will see changes if they're sincere.

Same question I put to Elvira. "Whoever looks at a married woman [not just woman, marrided woman] to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart", How do you make the jump from this to thoughts of gay sex being a sin? It clearly has nothing to do with gay sex, specifing, as it does, that the luster is male and the lustee is a married female.

 

[Daisy]

Salvation.. a snake oil cure for a disease that does not exist.

You have the disease...you just don't acknowledge it...

 

[RAMOSS]

You have the disease...you just don't acknowledge it...

There is no disease, just a con job to the gullible.

 

[kitsune]

If you are not a Christian, why should you care? But since you asked, I will tell you what Jesus said...the same principle applies to all immoral sex...

"But I say to you that everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

Hi Elvira, nice to see you again. Thanks for the response. No, I'm not a Christian, but my life is affected by people who are. I'm interested in Christians' myriad interpretations and ways of understanding the unchanging will of their god.

To pursue the question further, going by the pronouns used, the quote you supply specifically refers to the lust of a man for a woman. In what verse is this expanded to apply to all immoral sex? Is it lust that is the problem or is it lust outside of marriage that this deity objects to?

What about non-sexual situations? If I were in a store and considered shoplifting something, but did not, would I be guilty of theft in the eyes of your god? Does he say that anywhere in the Bible. Forgive me if I'm being pedantic. I just like to get these things nailed down if possible.

 

[Daisy]

Hi Elvira, nice to see you again. Thanks for the response. No, I'm not a Christian, but my life is affected by people who are. I'm interested in Christians' myriad interpretations and ways of understanding the unchanging will of their god.

To pursue the question further, going by the pronouns used, the quote you supply specifically refers to the lust of a man for a woman. In what verse is this expanded to apply to all immoral sex? Is it lust that is the problem or is it lust outside of marriage that this deity objects to?

What about non-sexual situations? If I were in a store and considered shoplifting something, but did not, would I be guilty of theft in the eyes of your god? Does he say that anywhere in the Bible. Forgive me if I'm being pedantic. I just like to get these things nailed down if possible.

All lust/sex outside of marriage is wrong in God's eyes...lust is a little different than stealing, don't cha think? You can go through the whole sexual act in your mind to the point of physical gratification, where thinking about stealing but actually rejecting the act is exercising self control so there is no sin involved other than having a bad thought, which we know, if a bad thought is allowed to dwell in our mind, we are more apt to act on that bad thought than if we dismiss it...lust is the only sin the Bible mentions that can be committed within one's mind without actually carrying it out...just as James says in James 1;4,5...

"But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death."

 

[kitsune]

All lust/sex outside of marriage is wrong in God's eyes...lust is a little different than stealing, don't cha think? You can go through the whole sexual act in your mind to the point of physical gratification, where thinking about stealing but actually rejecting the act is exercising self control so there is no sin involved other than having a bad thought, which we know, if a bad thought is allowed to dwell in our mind, we are more apt to act on that bad thought than if we dismiss it...lust is the only sin the Bible mentions that can be committed within one's mind without actually carrying it out...just as James says in James 1;4,5...

"But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death."

Interesting observation on lust vs stealing. And an insight into how your god's mind works.
Thank you, I can always depend on you to provide a succinct answer minus mummery. As to how hetersexual lust within a constrained context is expanded into all lust, I'm still not quite sure. I suppose you could use James to supply the bridge.... I need to check out the context of this bit of scripture.

 

[blarg]

Irrelevant, claiming someone else violates a different commandment is not a defense for your own shortcomings

relevant because of the hypocrisy of people who are ok with violating the bible saying its bad to violate the bible


ill just ask god


god do you care about any of the commandments in the bible?


gods not backing the bible commands

 

[blarg]

Don't like it, don't be a Methodist. Problem solved. The Methodist church does not reject or remove homosexuals from membership. Rather, they are continuing to not allow gay ministers or to conduct same sex marriages.

All mainstream churches that adopt modern social values are dying.

yes that works but still going to say it ****ed up to believe people are doing something wrong based on faith

the bastards are not immune to criticism because you don't want to see it

 

[blarg]

Yes, the list is long. But there's a great antidote in the salvation of Jesus Christ.

One thing, though - people have to repent of their sins (Luke 13:3). When have you ever heard of a dedicated gay sex individual repent of their sin(s)? Unless they repent, they will perish.

god do you have a problem with homosexulaity?


god did not answer who ever told you it did have a problem with homosexuality was a liar

 

[lurchadams]

I love how in this article there is a lot of talk about who’s attending Sunday services and not any about the Bible. Unrepentant homosexuality is a sin, you will be condemned for it. A church that is willing to tell people not to repent and follow God’s teaching is like a Doctor that tells you not to change your diet when you are very overweight.

It is very concerning that had it not been for the Black African delegates they might’ve opened the door to changing the policy. If you’re in a Methodist congregation in the US you need to consider leaving, a church that tells you unbiblical things is bad for your spiritual health. This should never have even been discussed because the Bible clearly does not allow for gay marriage and a pastor should not be living an unrepentant sinful lifestyle.

Traditionalists prevail in United Methodist Church sexuality conversation | News | themountaineer.com

Someone just told me in another thread that when I say, "trump is the scourge of the earth", that's just my opinion.

Such is the case with your claim that there is anything wrong with gay marriage.

 

[lurchadams]

It is like expecting the KKK to start allowing black members.

It's like conservatives allowing sane members.

 

[blarg]

I’ve found most people who aren’t religious don’t recognize anything as a moral failing. Except not recycling or “racism” (which is never defined)



Technically it’s not excluding “gays” it’s excluding open or practicing homosexuals. Homosexual behavior is condemned, as is all sin but the important thing is repentance. If someone is an open practicing homosexual no repentance is possible since that person refuses to recognize their open sinful behavior and a pastor engaging in this tells the congregation this sin is actually acceptable and thus causes them to risk their souls. It would be wrong to hire a pastor who’s shacking up with a woman he’s not married to or hiring a prostitute or engaging in an affair. It would be wrong to hire a pastor who’s dealing drugs, it would be wrong to hire a minister who’s engaging in making pornography. Now someone who did this in the past and has properly repented and abstains from this behavior is different, but someone shameless and continually in the present doing it is not suitable for ministry.



Lying per se is not a sin, bearing false witness is. If you struggle with same sex attraction but do not act on it nor endorse it there is no problem, at least not biblically, I don’t know the ins and outs of Methodist policy to the letter as I am a Catholic.
Masturbation is a sin, I largely gave it up and the handful of times I’ve done it I go to confession.



That’s fine.

god do care about masturbation or homossexuality?


god did not answer you have born false witness about your god

hold on let me find out if it cares about that


hey god do you care about people lying about others


god did not answer so you seem to be off the hook

 

[lurchadams]

Good for them...if you're gonna call yourself a Christian, then act like one...

Yes, an unrepentant, ignorant bigot.

 

[lurchadams]

The baby boomers are a favorite punching bag of many, but I blame the WW2 generation, they suffered the Great Depression and the war and wanted their kids to have everything they didn’t have. Then we started seeing things like no fault divorce and contraception emerge and of course these kick off a new era of moral relativism, sex is not procreative so all the traditional mores go away, this creates a problem of single mothers, now we need a welfare state to care for them, this of course is subsidizing moral decay, and creating damaged children who cannot form proper relationships and are depressed, and unhealthy.
And they’ve been sold on an concept society owes them an idyllic existence and they know they’re not whole and missing it, so they’re ungrateful for how nice they have it here.

So, your post is a total contradiction. Let me show you why.

Here you say:

Then we started seeing things like no fault divorce and contraception emerge and of course these kick off a new era of moral relativism, sex is not procreative so all the traditional mores go away,

So here you're against contraception without which there would be many more unplanned births.

Then here you say:

this creates a problem of single mothers, now we need a welfare state to care for them, this of course is subsidizing moral decay, and creating damaged children who cannot form proper relationships and are depressed, and unhealthy.

So you're against contraception, then you white about single mothers on welfare. You understand one helps prevent the other?

No. You obviously don't

 

[Winchester]

The biological parents not being legally married.


Or the child not being the issue of both the legal mother and legal father. Though this applies to lines of succession more than anything.

That just makes them a bastard.

 

[Winchester]

Don't like it, don't be a Methodist. Problem solved. The Methodist church does not reject or remove homosexuals from membership. Rather, they are continuing to not allow gay ministers or to conduct same sex marriages.

All mainstream churches that adopt modern social values are dying.

All mainstream churches are dying... there is a reason for that and it's not because they are adopting modern social values.

 

[blarg]

You have the disease...you just don't acknowledge it...

god is that true?

gods not backing you up