McCain - "Rand Paul is working for Vladimir Putin"

[Fishking]

He's a Trump zombie and is not capable of independent thought. McCain is appalled that Trump is selling out the USA to Putin. Trump should be on trial for sedition.

tf are you talking about and what does this have to do with Trump? This is Rand Paul vs McCain. Someone who believes in the Constitution and the ideals of our founders vs a warmongering dirtbag that doesn't care about the blood of Service Members. McCain is a sellout.

 

[AlbqOwl]

McCain was pretty upset, all right. But Rand Paul was taking Putin's position against the U.S. Someone should at least point that out.

No he wasn't. He was stating an excellent argument that the U.S. cannot obligate itself to protect every nation in the world that comes under threat or assault by another country whatever that country is. While certainly the U.S. Congress can vote to do whatever the U.S. should do when it comes to going to war, it does not serve us well to obligate ourselves to go to war for every nation on Earth, most especially in those in which the people themselves are widely divided on what should happen. At some point we have to draw the line on what is in the U.S.'s best interest.

 

[Fishking]

Might have something to do with this: Rand Paul on Flynn: 'Makes no sense' to investigate fellow Republicans - CNNPolitics.com

-and-

This: Rand Paul?s Russian Connection

And his daddy is basically employed by their government. So why do people still like the Pauls, hypocrites that they are??

Because warmongering is dumb and good relations are better for everyone.

 

[NeverTrump]

Because warmongering is dumb and good relations are better for everyone.

Being employed by a dictatorship, isn't the same as having good relations with them. lolz. I mean yeah it falls along the same line, but there is so much more to it if you are actually getting paid to "have good relations w/Russia." You know it's the principle of the thing, but then again most Trump supporters checked their principles at the door when they vote for Trump.

 

[Fishking]

Being employed by a dictatorship, isn't the same as having good relations with them. lolz. I mean yeah it falls along the same line, but there is so much more to it if you are actually getting paid to "have good relations w/Russia." You know it's the principle of the thing, but then again most Trump supporters checked their principles at the door when they vote for Trump.

It's cute that you keep talking about Trump, when this has nothing to do with him. You really need that crutch to cover for not making a valid point, don't you.

 

[JumpinJack]

Lol...no. Rand was blocking military expansionism that's driving us into heightened conflict.

That's one way to spin it. The reality seems to be that Paul has taken Putin's position on the matter, which is opposed to the United States' position.

 

[JumpinJack]

No he wasn't. He was stating an excellent argument that the U.S. cannot obligate itself to protect every nation in the world that comes under threat or assault by another country whatever that country is. While certainly the U.S. Congress can vote to do whatever the U.S. should do when it comes to going to war, it does not serve us well to obligate ourselves to go to war for every nation on Earth, most especially in those in which the people themselves are widely divided on what should happen. At some point we have to draw the line on what is in the U.S.'s best interest.

Yes...he was taking Putin's position on the matter. That should be pointed out, and it was. McCain was doing his job. Putin's position = Rand Paul's position, which is opposed to the position of the U S.

That is a statement of fact. Whether you or I agree with either position is a different matter and irrelevant to whether Paul is adopting Putin's position.

 

[Fishking]

That's one way to spin it. The reality seems to be that Paul has taken Putin's position on the matter, which is opposed to the United States' position.

Spin? No. Reality? Yes. It appears that there are some that haven't really been paying attention to what kind of dividends we've been getting from all of our foreign interventionism investments.

History is not your friend but I think Rand would find a much better friend in Washington than warmongers like McCain and yourself. But, hey...anyone that loves interventionism can join up and get next to me if the **** hits the fan again.

There is a reason why Rand's old man, Ron, got more money from the military than any other candidate when he ran.

 

[joG]

What a freaking warmongering dirtbag McCain is. This video should be turned onto a thug life video with Rand Paul blocking McCain and walking off. It's so great that McCain tried to qualify his statement first before going through all the formalities just to have Paul object and walk off. McCain is so steamed and it's amazing.



Rand's response was pretty funny as well.

Maybe I would have used other words than McCain. But he is right that blocking memberships in NATO has had allowed Putin to wreck mischief in a number of countries and can be categorized as having helped that aggressor.

In the response Rand says it would cost us money, which needn't at all be the case.

 

[Fishking]

Yes...he was taking Putin's position on the matter. That should be pointed out, and it was. McCain was doing his job. Putin's position = Rand Paul's position, which is opposed to the position of the U S.

That is a statement of fact. Whether you or I agree with either position is a different matter and irrelevant to whether Paul is adopting Putin's position.

Lol...no. It's not a statement of fact. There is no homogeneous U.S. position that you're claiming. There is the warmonger and foreign interventionist position though. Further, that position has resulting in more problems for us, not less. We supported the Taliban, just to fight the Taliban. We supported Saddam, just to fight Saddam. We overthrew an Iranian government to install a dictator, just to have them revolt into an extreme anti-west government. We bombed Libya into a failed state, just to have our ambassador killed and it turning into a terrorist breeding ground.

Some people will never inform themselves of history. Entangling alliances makes wars worse, not better.

 

[Fishking]

Maybe I would have used other words than McCain. But he is right that blocking memberships in NATO has had allowed Putin to wreck mischief in a number of countries and can be categorized as having helped that aggressor.

In the response Rand says it would cost us money, which needn't at all be the case.

In your mind, it is Russia who is the aggressor? Remind me, how many military bases do they have on our border? How many of our allies have they attacked? How many governments have they toppled? How many of these things are happening on their doorstep vs us doing it half way around the world?

The perception of our foreign policy people have always amazes me.

 

[NeverTrump]

It's cute that you keep talking about Trump, when this has nothing to do with him. You really need that crutch to cover for not making a valid point, don't you.

Getting paid by a dictatorship, isn't a point? Wow...

 

[Fishking]

Getting paid by a dictatorship, isn't a point? Wow...

Lol...are you saying that Rand is getting paid by Putin just because McCain said so?

 

[NeverTrump]

Lol...are you saying that Rand is getting paid by Putin just because McCain said so?

Ron Paul is definitely on the payroll and I wouldn't put it past the Paul's to do some shady financial deals. Ron Paul ex-aides guilty in payment scandal

With all that being said, Rand Paul's public positions as well as his relationship with various Russian cronies definitely should be questioned at least. I think it's troubling you don't agree and haven't really stated a reason why. Except for sticking your head in the sand.

 

[beerftw]

Maybe I would have used other words than McCain. But he is right that blocking memberships in NATO has had allowed Putin to wreck mischief in a number of countries and can be categorized as having helped that aggressor.

In the response Rand says it would cost us money, which needn't at all be the case.

Actually expanding nato has caused him to wreak mischief. Nato has expanded towards russia, and no country would ever feel non threatened with guns surrounding them along their border. Putins response has been pushing back at american expansionism, and full enforcement of the wolfowitz doctrine, a doctrine that views russia as enemy number one, as a means to ensure russia has no military power, or influence, or money, and aims to keep russia a thirdworld backwater country to ensure it could never compete economically with the us even in it's own region.

The wolfowitz doctrine was made in 92, and has been the doctrine we have followed towards dealing with russia since the cold war. Now on to russias aggressions, russia took crimea to retain a strategic naval and economic port, which was threatened when the us installed a puppet govt in ukraine. In georgia war georgia actually attacked first, they attacked south ossettia despite russian warnings, and georgias artillery were hitting russian towns across the border.

 

[iguanaman]

Lol...no. Rand was blocking military expansionism that's driving us into heightened conflict.

No, he is enabling Russian military expansionism. That is the problem with libertarians, they make us less safe. Alliances make us safer and less likely to get into wars. It's like you were born yesterday. Trump is also gutting the State Dept. on Putin's order. We are losing the power to prevent conflicts by the day.

 

[justabubba]

No, he is enabling Russian military expansionism. That is the problem with libertarians, they make us less safe. Alliances make us safer and less likely to get into wars. It's like you were born yesterday.

why is it that we are unable to go to war with russia over montenegro outside of NATO in a manner we would go to war over that country if it did become a NATO alliance member?

 

[iguanaman]

why is it that we are unable to go to war with russia over montenegro outside of NATO in a manner we would go to war over that country if it did become a NATO alliance member?

LOL We are trying to prevent conflicts not create them....At least we were before Trump. Besides, Trump will do nothing if Russia invades its neighbors, Putin has the goods to bring him down. That should be obvious to all by now.

 

[VanceMack]

Aaaaaaand...John McCain should effectively seen by anyone now as a kook.

 

[Fiddytree]

It was sheer hyperbole, even though Paul's vision of foreign policy is, at times, advantageous toward Russia (as is an over-extended U.S. in the middle east).

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[Wiggen]

So is the Orange Fascist Trump and half his minions. It's quite the fashionable thing these days. Trash your allies and praise Putin. The new Republican playbook.

 

[Wiggen]

Aaaaaaand...John McCain should effectively seen by anyone now as a kook.

Whereas Paul and Trump are American patriots, right?:lamo

 

[justabubba]

LOL We are trying to prevent conflicts not create them....At least we were before Trump. Besides, Trump will do nothing if Russia invades its neighbors, Putin has the goods to bring him down. That should be obvious to all by now.

how will bringing montenegro into the NATO alliance prevent conflicts when it is very likely it will be seen by russia as provocation

 

[Wiggen]

LOL We are trying to prevent conflicts not create them....At least we were before Trump. Besides, Trump will do nothing if Russia invades its neighbors, Putin has the goods to bring him down. That should be obvious to all by now.

Well it's obvious to anybody who isn't a Putin-loving Trumpkin.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: McCain - "Rand Paul is working for Vladimir Putin"

how will bringing montenegro into the NATO alliance prevent conflicts when it is very likely it will be seen by russia as provocation

Russia sees nearly everything as provocation and nearly everything they do as defensive. It's their geopolitical DNA.

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