Man Filmed Accosting Woman In Puerto Rico Shirt Charged With Hate Crime

[Moot]

Bear spray would've been the proper response for that asshole.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Sexual harassment is a form of harassment. It only takes one incident for someone to be subject to that lawsuit. So your claim that harassment has to occur multiple times is complete hogwash

Again, sexual harassment is treated differently than regular harassment. And again, a lawsuit is not a criminal proceeding.

Tell me Kal, what would happen to a protester if they tried to do to Trump what this guy did to this woman? I would expect them to be arrested.

Trump is the President. If someone walks up to shake his hand without permission they get arrested. Can you please try and keep this reasonable instead of going to extremes? Also could you answer my question?

 

[Kal'Stang]

Bear spray would've been the proper response for that asshole.

Wow...something we can actually agree on. Figuratively anyways. Actually happening? That would be an assault charge. I would prefer that not to happen to this woman.

 

[Geoist]

Again, sexual harassment is treated differently than regular harassment. And again, a lawsuit is not a criminal proceeding.

I never said a lawsuit is a criminal proceeding. You claimed harassment, by definition, has to happen multiple times. I gave you sexual harassment in the workplace as an example of how you are wrong.

You say it is different. How is that?

By the way, there are states that do consider 'general' harassment a crime.

States vary in how they define criminal harassment. Generally, criminal harassment entails intentionally targeting someone else with behavior that is meant to alarm, annoy, torment or terrorize them. Not all petty annoyances constitute harassment. Instead, most state laws require that the behavior cause a credible threat to the person's safety or their family's safety.
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/harassment.html

Trump is the President. If someone walks up to shake his hand without permission they get arrested. Can you please try and keep this reasonable instead of going to extremes? Also could you answer my question?

You brought up a ridiculous argument so I threw one back at you. Protesters absolutely can get arrested for harassment if the situation warranted it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I never said a lawsuit is a criminal proceeding. You claimed harassment, by definition, has to happen multiple times. I gave you sexual harassment in the workplace as an example of how you are wrong.

You say it is different. How is that?

By the way, there are states that do consider 'general' harassment a crime.

States vary in how they define criminal harassment. Generally, criminal harassment entails intentionally targeting someone else with behavior that is meant to alarm, annoy, torment or terrorize them. Not all petty annoyances constitute harassment. Instead, most state laws require that the behavior cause a credible threat to the person's safety or their family's safety.
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/harassment.html

1: Notice what it said there? "Credible threat". You think a 60+ year old man is a credible threat to a woman in her 20's/30's?

2: And since we're talking about criminal proceedings here then why bring up a lawsuit?

And can you point to a single court case where a harassment charge was won with just ONE instance of two strangers meeting and this kind of thing happening? Just one.

You brought up a ridiculous argument so I threw one back at you. Protesters absolutely can get arrested for harassment if the situation warranted it.

Show me a case where a protestor was arrested for harassment solely for getting into someones face and yelling at them verbally.

And no, its not a ridiculous argument. It's the same exact thing that happened right here in this case.

 

[Geoist]

1: Notice what it said there? "Credible threat". You think a 60+ year old man is a credible threat to a woman in her 20's/30's?

A threat does not mean capable of strangling a person to death with bare hands.

2: And since we're talking about criminal proceedings here then why bring up a lawsuit?

I brought up the sexual harassment example as an obvious one that everyone who has ever held an office job should know. Only takes one incident for it to be harassment.

And can you point to a single court case where a harassment charge was won with just ONE instance of two strangers meeting and this kind of thing happening? Just one.

Harassment cases are typically charged as 'disorderly conduct' and that can include several unlawful acts apart from harassment. I am not going to sift through case after case for you. My point was not to prove there are cases out there, only that your assumption that harassment requires multiple incidents is dead wrong. Furthermore, you have yet to answer my request for a law stating criminal harassment requires multiple incidents.

 

[Geoist]

As this incident occurred in Illinois, I did a little reading on Illinois laws and, imo, the old man definitely violated Illinois hate crime laws:

Chapter 720, §5-12-7.1
In Illinois, a number of crimes – including disorderly conduct, assault, and battery – are considered hate
crimes when they are motivated by a bias against someone’s actual or perceived race, color, creed,
religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, or national origin.
Stop Street Harassment
Know Your Rights: Street Harassment and the Law | 5
Demonstrating that the crime was committed because of the offender’s bias is the key element in
determining if something was a hate crime. If a harasser indicates that s/he is committing an act against
you – such as following you, threatening you, or putting his or her hands on you – because of your
gender, race, orientation, or another protected characteristic, you can report his or her crime and the
indication of hate to the police.
An example of a hate crime in the context of street harassment would be someone following you and
shouting something like, “Don’t you know you shouldn’t be here because you’re [a
woman/gay/black/white/latina/etc.]? I should [violent threat] so you’ll stay inside.”
When reporting a hate crime, report the crime that was committed – assault, battery, etc. – and the
indication that the crime was motivated by bias.
Penalty: A hate crime is a felony, punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or between 1 and 3 years in
prison. Penalties may also include retribution to the victim(s). In addition to criminal charges, you may
bring civil charges against a harasser who commits a hate crime if you experience damage to your
property or physical harm. In a civil case, a judge may award actual or punitive damages, including
damages for emotional distress and/or legal fees.

 

[Kal'Stang]

A threat does not mean capable of strangling with bare hands.

It's "credible" threat. Not just "threat". Did the old man display or even have any kind of weapon on his person? Did he use it to threaten the woman?

I brought up the sexual harassment example as an obvious one that everyone who has ever held an office job should know. Only takes one incident for it to be harassment.

Sexual harassment. Not just harassment. Again, sexual harassment is always treated differently.

Harassment cases are typically charged as 'disorderly conduct' and that can include several unlawful acts apart from harassment. I am not going to sift through case after case for you. My point was not to prove there are cases out there, only that your assumption that harassment requires multiple incidents is dead wrong. Furthermore, you have yet to answer my request for a law stating criminal harassment requiring multiple incidents.

No. Disorderly conduct is a separate charge. Disorderly Conduct And as I said earlier in the other thread I can understand disorderly conduct being used.

As for your question.

harassment

(either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands.

Law.Com ~ Definition of Harassment

And yes, I know you're not going to sift through cases because there is none to find where an protestor was arrested solely for harassment when getting into other peoples faces.

In any case. We have been getting off track. This guy is being charged with a hate crime for doing nothing more than spewing his hate. He was not a credible threat to anyone. He did not assault anyone. When watching the video I didn't even hear a single threat, he just berated. The only reason that people are supporting this is because the guy was being racist. Hell, who cares about Rights? This guy was RACIST!

 

[Kal'Stang]

As this incident occurred in Illinois, I did a little reading on Illinois laws and, imo, the old man definitely violated Illinois hate crime laws:

Chapter 720, §5-12-7.1
In Illinois, a number of crimes – including disorderly conduct, assault, and battery – are considered hate
crimes when they are motivated by a bias against someone’s actual or perceived race, color, creed,
religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, or national origin.
Stop Street Harassment
Know Your Rights: Street Harassment and the Law | 5
Demonstrating that the crime was committed because of the offender’s bias is the key element in
determining if something was a hate crime. If a harasser indicates that s/he is committing an act against
you – such as following you, threatening you, or putting his or her hands on you – because of your
gender, race, orientation, or another protected characteristic, you can report his or her crime and the
indication of hate to the police.
An example of a hate crime in the context of street harassment would be someone following you and
shouting something like, “Don’t you know you shouldn’t be here because you’re [a
woman/gay/black/white/latina/etc.]? I should [violent threat] so you’ll stay inside.”
When reporting a hate crime, report the crime that was committed – assault, battery, etc. – and the
indication that the crime was motivated by bias.
Penalty: A hate crime is a felony, punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or between 1 and 3 years in
prison. Penalties may also include retribution to the victim(s). In addition to criminal charges, you may
bring civil charges against a harasser who commits a hate crime if you experience damage to your
property or physical harm. In a civil case, a judge may award actual or punitive damages, including
damages for emotional distress and/or legal fees.

Alright, watch the video. At what point was a threat used? And do you really think that this is going to stand up to Constitutional muster?

 

[Geoist]

It's "credible" threat. Not just "threat". Did the old man display or even have any kind of weapon on his person? Did he use it to threaten the woman?

Now you are claiming 'credible threats' require a weapon?:roll:

Sexual harassment. Not just harassment. Again, sexual harassment is always treated differently.

Sexual harassment is treated differently in that it is not usually a crime but a civil issue. If it only takes one incident then why is it harassment? According to you, harassment has to require severe incidents.

Harassment, as I've already shown, is a crime in many states.

No. Disorderly conduct is a separate charge. Disorderly Conduct And as I said earlier in the other thread I can understand disorderly conduct being used.

I am saying that the harassment could be charged as disorderly conduct.

From your own link: Since the statutes are often used as “catch-all” crimes, many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition.

As for your question.



Law.Com ~ Definition of Harassment

Do you understand what systematic means?

The only reason that people are supporting this is because the guy was being racist. Hell, who cares about Rights? This guy was RACIST!

Think what you want. I believe in the right of people to be ignorant racist assholes if they want. I just don't believe in the right of people to publicly harass others (oh, but it is not harassment unless he did it at least three times! He could be haranguing her for a good hour, but that is still only one incident... not harassment!!) :roll:

 

[Geoist]

Alright, watch the video. At what point was a threat used?

I don't think I ever said anything about him 'using a threat.'

And do you really think that this is going to stand up to Constitutional muster?

I think it is pretty clear he broke Illinois law, but if we are to question the constitutionality of the law then I really don't know what the Illinois Supreme Court or SCOTUS would rule. We'll have to wait and see if it even gets there.

 

[Nap]

Please point to me where the law says this.

I don't believe for a second that a boss could tell his/her employee that they'd give them a promotion if they did a sex act and not be subject to a lawsuit.

Wow, that is some pretty crazy movement on those goal posts. Do you really consider a one time compliment on the same level as trying to bribe someone for sex? Has anyone ever been sued for a single compliment?

 

[Geoist]

Wow, that is some pretty crazy movement on those goal posts. Do you really consider a one time compliment on the same level as trying to bribe someone for sex? Has anyone ever been sued for a single compliment?

Did I say a 'compliment' is the same as a bribe for sex? One thing is clear, they are both examples of sexual harassment. Are you really going to debate this?

 

[Nap]

Did I say a 'compliment' is the same as a bribe for sex? One thing is clear, they are both examples of sexual harassment. Are you really going to debate this?

Your first example was saying your coworker had a sexy body, he countered and said that it took multiple unwanted occasions of this type to be considered harassment to which you asked him to show you where the law says this as you didn't believe a boss could get away with asking for sex acts in exchange for a promotion. It would seem you are either equating the two, or you realized that your first example was not adequate for your argument so you pushed it to the more extreme one.

Complimenting your coworker is not sexual harassment, repeated unwanted sexual advances are. One time is flirting, repeatedly after you have been told to stop however is harassment.

 

[Nap]

Did I say a 'compliment' is the same as a bribe for sex? One thing is clear, they are both examples of sexual harassment. Are you really going to debate this?

From Wiki

The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claims that it is unlawful to harass an applicant or employee of any sex in the workplace. The harassment could include sexual harassment. The EEOC says that the victim and harasser could be any gender and that the other does not have to be of the opposite sex. The law does not ban offhand comments, simple teasing, or incidents that aren't very serious. If the harassment gets to the point where it creates a harsh work environment, it will be taken care of.[3]*In 1980, the*Equal Employment Opportunity Commission*produced a set of guidelines for defining and enforcing Title VII (in 1984 it was expanded to include educational institutions). The EEOC defines sexual harassment as:

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, or other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when:

Submission to such conduct was made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual was used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual, orSuch conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment.

1. and 2. are called "quid pro quo" (Latin for "this for that" or "something for something"). They are essentially "sexual bribery", or promising of benefits, and "sexual coercion".

Type 3. known as "hostile work environment", is by far the most common form. This form is less clear cut and is more subjective.[79]

Note:*a workplace harassment complainant*must*file with the EEOC and receive a "right to sue" clearance, before they can file a lawsuit against a company in federal court.[68]

 

[Geoist]

Your first example was saying your coworker had a sexy body, he countered and said that it took multiple unwanted occasions of this type to be considered harassment to which you asked him to show you where the law says this as you didn't believe a boss could get away with asking for sex acts in exchange for a promotion. It would seem you are either equating the two, or you realized that your first example was not adequate for your argument so you pushed it to the more extreme one.

I gave two different examples. I never said they were equal, but they are both examples of sexual harassment.

Complimenting your coworker is not sexual harassment, repeated unwanted sexual advances are. One time is flirting, repeatedly after you have been told to stop however is harassment.

Commenting on a co-worker's figure is sexual harassment, at least outside of Mississippi it is.

You should not expect 'freebies' in the work place.

 

[Nap]

I gave two different examples. I never said they were equal, but they are both examples of sexual harassment.




Commenting on a co-worker's figure is sexual harassment, at least outside of Mississippi it is.

You should not expect 'freebies' in the work place.

Lol, Go ahead and file a claim with the EOCC saying that a coworker commented one time on your figure. I'm curious if you were to even get a response much less clearance to be able to sue.

 

[Geoist]

From Wiki

What part of that snippet you failed to link are you highlighting?

And I've mentioned before in this thread that sexual harassment is not always a crime. I was taking issue with Kal's claim that harassment has to occur multiple times. It does not.

 

[Geoist]

Lol, Go ahead and file a claim with the EOCC saying that a coworker commented one time on your figure. I'm curious if you were to even get a response much less clearance to be able to sue.

There would be no point as it is one person's word against another's. Sexual harassment, especially a single incident, is difficult to prove. But being difficult to prove doesn't mean it isn't harassment. That is your argument if you think about it. Pretty silly.

 

[Nap]

What part of that snippet you failed to link are you highlighting?

And I've mentioned before in this thread that sexual harassment is not always a crime. I was taking issue with Kal's claim that harassment has to occur multiple times. It does not.

My bad. I thought I had put a link in there. You said you were curious about what is defined as sexual harassment so I got the EOCC guidelines for what constitutes sexual harassment.

Your first example would have taken multiple occurrences in order to be sexual harassment, the second example would be sexual harassment even if it were just a one single time.

 

[Nap]

There would be no point as it is one person's word against another's. Sexual harassment, especially a single incident, is difficult to prove. But being difficult to prove doesn't mean it isn't harassment. That is your argument if you think about it. Pretty silly.

No, what is silly is thinking that offering one compliment constitutes sexual harassment. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Next time someone compliments you and there is someone around to witness it then send in your claim. I would be surprised if you even got a response back (other than asking if you were actually serious).

 

[Geoist]

My bad. I thought I had put a link in there. You said you were curious about what is defined as sexual harassment so I got the EOCC guidelines for what constitutes sexual harassment.

Your first example would have taken multiple occurrences in order to be sexual harassment, the second example would be sexual harassment even if it were just a one single time.

The EEOC does not state the law defines harassment, only that the law protects against some harassment but not all. Notice where it states, "If the harassment gets to the point where it creates a harsh work environment, it will be taken care of." In other words, the harassment could occur one time, but it may take multiple occurrences of harassment for the EEOC to act. They are not arguing that a single incident isn't harassment.

 

[Geoist]

No, what is silly is thinking that offering one compliment constitutes sexual harassment. It is absolutely ridiculous.

I know they are about 20 years behind everyone else down in Mississippi, but here in the 21st century we do not tolerate sexual harassment just because it was a 'single incident.' If you want to compliment someone then do so on a job well done, not on their ass or breasts... Sexual compliments are for boyfriends/girlfriends, not co-workers.

 

[Nap]

The EEOC does not state the law defines harassment, only that the law protects against some harassment but not all. Notice where it states, "If the harassment gets to the point where it creates a harsh work environment, it will be taken care of." In other words, the harassment could occur one time, but it may take multiple occurrences of harassment for the EEOC to act. They are not arguing that a single incident isn't harassment.

"The law does not ban offhand comments, simple teasing, or incidents that aren't very serious."

Did you even notice that part?

If I were to call you an asshole a single time, this is not harrassment. If I were to follow you and go to every thread you post in order to purposely offend you then that would be harrassment.

You do realize many couples meet in the workplace? Flirting is not illegal nor wrong.

Why do you continually insist on insulting the state of Mississippi? Is harrassment part of the ToS here? Should I report you?

 

[sangha]

No, harassment requires multiple instances of something happening.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/

Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcomed and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. Harassing behavior may include, but is not limited to, epithets, derogatory comments or slurs and lewd propositions, assault, impeding or blocking movement, offensive touching or any physical interference with normal work or movement, and visual insults, such as derogatory posters or cartoons.