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Lying Down While Black: 'Merka

Seriously? He did a rolling stop and once he pulled into his grandmothers driveway (clearly not trying to escape) the cop pulls up and starts screaming for him to get out of the vehicle. That's not generally how a "rolling stop" is handled.

No, the cop didn't start screaming for him to get out of the vehicle. The cop asked him to get out and the kid refused for 5 full minutes. When the kid did finally get out of the car he started yelling at the cop and basically freaking out. The cops were EXTREMELY measured in their response.
 
If it is the case that he went to a place, providing he dis so in a way that wasn't causing a threat to anyone, where he felt safe (his grandmothers) how do we look at this as any different than a woman being pulled over who insisted on pulling into a well lit area visible to many before stopping her car. It's not just police who are more afraid these days.

Fear us a bad starting place for human interaction. We truly need to address it and bring the fear factor down. People are going to have to acknowledge is existence. They are going to have to acknowledge what they are contributing to it. They are going to have to knock it off and start behaving in ways that allows those around them to feel more at ease.

No, I am not talking politically correct micro-aggressions. I am talking REAL human instinctual reaction to fight or flight stimuli. You can't have folks walking about wound up like three dollar springs in a five dollar watch and not expect there to be problems when they have to interact with each other.

It is ubiquitous and pervasive all over the world these days and it is quite high here in the US as well. We need to stop, think, and understand. Intellect needs to take precedence over emotion. We are feeling WAY too much and thinking no where near enough.

Everyone needs to take a major chill pill, and then when the minds have eased from the overflow of emotion, start talking to each other and solve our problems.


Yet you discount that the officers may have felt fear of what they may be encountering since this person was refusing to stop and refusing to comply with their instructions. This is a two way street and defending this kid is just plain wrong. He was the one who was "wound up like three dollar springs in a five dollar watch " and now he will face the consequences.
 
It sounds like you knew exactly what you were saying before you said it. Already set up the fake victim narrative: if someone responds the way you expect them to, hint hint nudge nudge know what I mean, that means you were right and identified the real problem, but the other person is sensitive about it. You'll get "flack"...

I am baffled that anyone says stuff like that in all seriousness. "The African-American Community". Which community? Which "African Americans"? And why are all African Americans answerable for the actions of a few, when no other group is? A rapper said "thug life" so now every black person is answerable?

You want me to give you a list of white person crimes?

And if I give you that list, will you say you agree that "The White American Community" is a bunch of criminals, a mixture of high-roller white collar embezzlers and the like, and a bunch of lowlife drug dealers and forgers?



No?

Then why would it ever make sense to hold all black people guilty of the crimes and motives of a subset of black people? You're trying to use words of rappers and the like of one race to justify over-the-top behavior as against anyone of that race.

What I hope it sounds like is someone who might just have a lot more experience than most folks here in the seeing, doing and dealing, and who has taken the time to think, hopefully productively, about what is going wrong and how to solve it. Someone who managed to get though 25 years in a major urban department of a municipality that is 85% minority, and who did so with a good record, eleven citations for above and beyond, life saving, problem solving within and for that community and their respect, I hope, as I respect them and was humbled when I felt accepted into their community as a contributing member of it.

At least that is what I would hoped it might sound like.

Instead., what it sounds like to me is you are not listening with an open mind I requested of you, but that you had a pat response ready for me that only took minutes for you to feed back to me after I had posted my own to this forum.

In response, if you are ready to listen, I'll state that the reason that we all need to address this, and acknowledge what we contribute to it, as that it is a social problem and most social problems do not take place in a vacuum sealed to the influence of only one side involve in it, instead of all sides involved in it.

Just as police officers need to acknowledge that which within its own culture adds to this climate; their level of fear and their "thin blue line" mentality, and the people within the totality of that community need to adopt an attitude that projects, "I am a good officer, and as a good officer I will not tolerate anti-social behavior from my own that reflects badly upon me", so does the totality of other communities need to be with the actions committed by their few that reflect upon them and add to this misery we are all trying to correct.

EVERYONE of good intent and will needs to be on the same page and pulling in the same direction to correct problems of this sort. That is just how it gets done, IF you want it to get done.

Walking into any negotiation, setting down at the table, and starting the talking with, "I have a problem and it all begins and ends with YOU.", simply results in the others at the table getting up and leaving the room. That is how people work. To not acknowledge that is to doom the attempt to failure before it has even begun.

So the question simply boils down to, "Do you want it fixed, or would you rather complain about it." If it is the former you tale a deep breath, realize its going to take a bit of talking and open hearts and minds, and you do the talking and you meet in the middles, and you get things done.
 
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He wouldn't be charged with felonies if this were one of those states. I know it is shocking, but some times black people are guilty.

So a rolling stop is now a felony. Got it.

What would he have been charged with if the cop got out of his car, walked up and said---dude you didn't do a full stop pack there.
 
Yet you discount that the officers may have felt fear of what they may be encountering since this person was refusing to stop and refusing to comply with their instructions. This is a two way street and defending this kid is just plain wrong. He was the one who was "wound up like three dollar springs in a five dollar watch " and now he will face the consequences.

No I didn't. REread the response. I was addressing fear on all sides.

And if you read what I have written to others in this thread you will note I address the fear of the police specifically, as both something that needs to be addressed and correct and as a causative factor in these troubles.
 
So a rolling stop is now a felony. Got it.

What would he have been charged with if the cop got out of his car, walked up and said---dude you didn't do a full stop pack there.

Evading police is. This kid deserves everything that happens to him. Bringing his drama to his grandma's house to inject her into his BS when he could have just pulled to the side of the road and taken his ticket is about as trashy as one could be. Completely disrespectful and your defense of him reflects poorly on you.
 
No, the cop didn't start screaming for him to get out of the vehicle. The cop asked him to get out and the kid refused for 5 full minutes. When the kid did finally get out of the car he started yelling at the cop and basically freaking out. The cops were EXTREMELY measured in their response.

:lamo Extremely measured would be the cop pulled up and didn't go into some crazy scared mode like he just saw the guy rob a bank and run down 5 people.
 
No, the cop didn't start screaming for him to get out of the vehicle. The cop asked him to get out and the kid refused for 5 full minutes. When the kid did finally get out of the car he started yelling at the cop and basically freaking out. The cops were EXTREMELY measured in their response.

:lamo Extremely measured would be the cop pulled up and didn't go into some crazy scared mode like he just saw the guy rob a bank and run down 5 people.

Someone with a "Slightly Liberal" lean who has criticized Lutherf's constant CTs in defense of all things Trump created this thread, so he must argue. He's also one of the Usual Suspects. With few exceptions, he'll find a way to defend government agents (police officers) no matter what.
 
Evading police is. This kid deserves everything that happens to him. Bringing his drama to his grandma's house to inject her into his BS when he could have just pulled to the side of the road and taken his ticket is about as trashy as one could be. Completely disrespectful and your defense of him reflects poorly on you.

Okee dokee. You can ignore that he never tried to escape the officer and you trash his 90 year old grandmother for protecting her grandson. But yeah it reflects poorly on me.

Keep up the good work! :peace
 
Evading police is. This kid deserves everything that happens to him. Bringing his drama to his grandma's house to inject her into his BS when he could have just pulled to the side of the road and taken his ticket is about as trashy as one could be. Completely disrespectful and your defense of him reflects poorly on you.

Was he evading?

I couldn't say, as I wasn't there. it certainly seems from the reporting, not that the news media gets it right even part of the time, that what he was doing was "looking for a safe place to land".

When I was a working officer I wouldn't have felt anything but inconvenienced by such an act, but I would try to be understanding of it.

In the street I didn't care if people mouthed off to me in their attempts to save face. I didn't care if they made me go an extra bit to get them to where I needed them to be. I cared that they got there. I cared that they listened. I cared that when it got to it they did what I told them to do in the way I told them to do it. I cared that the end result was that EVERYONE got to the end of it in one piece. Of course myself, but also everyone else.

If it took a few more blocks and a few more minutes for that to take place, then so be it.
 
It's as if they are trained in escalation not de-escalation. How about some common sense? How about keeping an eye out for the worst but not acting like the worst is coming from the start?

Hell, I'm white and I've had cops go ballistic on me. I was on a run one time and I didn't see a sign closing a sidewalk. Nothing was actually blocking the sidewalk. No cop was standing near the road to stop traffic so pedestrians could cross the street, as with every other time they close sidewalks (and usually block them off physically). There were some cones around the construction area. There was only one construction guy there, chatting on his cell. I run along, am passing the last truck, and suddenly a cop starts screaming at me.

Literally, screaming. WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? THE LAST PERSON THAT DID THAT ALMOST GOT HIT BY A TWO BY FOUR! (Gee, maybe if people keep not seeing your sign you should make things a little more obvious, asshole). Went on for minutes. I explain, well, I was running. I didn't see this sign you're talking about. I ended up having to just wait for him to finish his unhinged tirade. I said something like "ok. I hear you." Annnnnnd he just turns his back, so on I go. Naturally, I wanted to say more. But in America, that can get your brains bashed in.



Or the time a few years back. Wife is driving. We're coming back from a visit to the parents on the Cape. Heavy traffic. Some asshole gets right on our tail, turns on his brights, and stays 1-3 feet away. If we'd so much as tapped the breaks, he'd have hit us. Eventually a spot opens on the right so we pop over. But, as we do, my wife sticks her hand out the window and extends a well-deserved middle finger. Lights go on.

Yet another lunatic comes striding up to the window and starts screaming at her. "Sorry. I'm sorry" she keeps saying. He keeps screaming like the broken power-hungry doosh he is. He eventually gives her a ticket for "left lane travel" and "impeding an officer". But he put in parentheses "flicked me off". She wanted to argue it (I would have but I had argument that day or something). So I advised her to focus on our side, and particularly focus on the fact that he wrong "flicked me off" on the ticket: proof of the real reason for the ticket. (And to note the SCOTUS case saying you can curse at a cop like that).

But...she didn't have to. Magistrate looks at ticket, shows it to the cop they have there to defend all tickets for the day, they chuckle, and magistrates says something like "yeah, that guy's a jerk" and dismisses it (or whatever the term is for throwing out a ticket...I haven't actually gotten any myself).





So many interactions with cops and they are pointlessly aggressive. Just over-the-top aggressive. I'd wonder if they all took steroids except there are far too many spherical cops for that to be the case.

We're both white. I can only half-imagine what it would be like to be black in the same situations. No wonder the guy in the OP lay down.
Heres an article on cops shot in the line of duty. Look at the type of activity in progress when these policemen are shot. How calm would you be?
Best move is to comply with what police tell you to do and do not get belligerent or combative.
I'm not saying the police shootings are Ok but I'm saying it's a tough job and lots of stress in dealing with criminals and unknown persons.
FBI Releases 2019 Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty — FBI
 
Evading police is. This kid deserves everything that happens to him. Bringing his drama to his grandma's house to inject her into his BS when he could have just pulled to the side of the road and taken his ticket is about as trashy as one could be. Completely disrespectful and your defense of him reflects poorly on you.

Why do you not understand that first of all he may not have seen that he was lit up immediately and second that depending on his states laws he had the right to drive to where he felt safe?
 
Someone with a "Slightly Liberal" lean who has criticized Lutherf's constant CTs in defense of all things Trump created this thread, so he must argue. He's also one of the Usual Suspects. With few exceptions, he'll find a way to defend government agents (police officers) no matter what.

Obviously we still have people with the mindset that if police say jump you should say how high. :shrug:
 
Was he evading?

I couldn't say, as I wasn't there. it certainly seems from the reporting, not that the news media gets it right even part of the time, that what he was doing was "looking for a safe place to land".

When I was a working officer I wouldn't have felt anything but inconvenienced by such an act, but I would try to be understanding of it.

In the street I didn't care if people mouthed off to me in their attempts to save face. I didn't care if they made me go an extra bit to get them to where I needed them to be. I cared that they got there. I cared that they listened. I cared that when it got to it they did what I told them to do in the way I told them to do it. I cared that the end result was that EVERYONE got to the end of it in one piece. Of course myself, but also everyone else.

If it took a few more blocks and a few more minutes for that to take place, then so be it.

He wasn't looking for a safe place to land he was blurbing about being scared of cops after jumping out of the car throwing something across the yard, refusing to comply and yelling at them.
 
:lamo Extremely measured would be the cop pulled up and didn't go into some crazy scared mode like he just saw the guy rob a bank and run down 5 people.

That's simply not what happened. I mean, we've got the video of the whole incident. I guess this just goes back to what I said in this thread earlier.
 
He wasn't looking for a safe place to land he was blurbing about being scared of cops after jumping out of the car throwing something across the yard, refusing to comply and yelling at them.

Nothing I saw of it, though I admit I haven't spent hours delving into it today as I had much family about and other things to contend with, suggested more than he was being stopped for a traffic violation, drove to his grandmother's home, then got out of the car when ordered to so so put instead of going back toward the officer who ordered that of him, said he was afraid and laid down on the ground. Then, when ordered to get up and comply started screaming his fear, calling for his grandmother, and pee'd himself.
 
That's simply not what happened. I mean, we've got the video of the whole incident. I guess this just goes back to what I said in this thread earlier.

So are you saying the officer pulled up into the edge of the driveway, got out and approached the vehicle to request the drivers license and proof of insurance? I mean the whole big bad crime was the kid did a rolling stop.
 
Nothing I saw of it, though I admit I haven't spent hours delving into it today as I had much family about and other things to contend with, suggested more than he was being stopped for a traffic violation, drove to his grandmother's home, then got out of the car when ordered to so so put instead of going back toward the officer who ordered that of him, said he was afraid and laid down on the ground. Then, when ordered to get up and comply started screaming his fear, calling for his grandmother, and pee'd himself.

The video link is in OP ( YouTube ) . Even after he got to grandma's he refused to get out of the car for several minutes and then hoped out with an attitude. Either way, fleeing the police in a vehicle makes it a felony under Texas law and if you watch the video, he had plenty of places to pull over before he got to grandma's house.
 
Your posts seem high strung. And yes I am aware, it doesn't happen in the video.

His 90 year old grandmother came out to protect her grandson. The entire event was overblown starting with the cop not just making a normal stop to begin with. Instead he went into high drama telling the kid to get out of the car.
His 90 year old gramma was taking out of her ass and then fell over without being touched. The 'high drama' was started by the little ****ing moron running from the cop, then acting like a tool when he got out of the car. And people like you feed into his moronic actions trying to turn his ****ing stupidity into a racial incident.

YOU are the problem,
 
Facedown on his grandmother’s grassy Texas lawn, a young black man cried as officers pointed guns at him for his alleged failure to heed a stop sign. Neighbors and loved ones watching his May 16 arrest called for 21-year-old Tye Anders to put his hands down and screamed at officers for having their firearms ready. “He’s scared. Y’all have guns on him. He’s black,” one woman called out to the officers. “Do y’all not see how many black people are getting shot?” Police wanted Anders to walk toward them while they had their guns drawn, but Anders refused. “I’m scared,” he shrieked. His 90-year-old grandmother, dressed in a cream-colored nightgown, exited her brick home and stood by her wailing grandson with a walking stick in her left hand. “We just need him to comply so we can talk to him,” an officer said, according to dash-cam footage released by the City of Midland. Four officers moved closer to the pair to arrest Anders, with another one nearby with gun in hand. Anders’s grandmother fell during the arrest and chaos ensued.
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Anders is facing a felony evading charge. Police were trying to initiate a traffic stop for Anders’s alleged failure to stop at a traffic sign but he continued to drive to his grandmother’s house, according to a statement provided by Midland Public Information Officer Erin Bailey. Officers repeatedly instructed Anders to exit his car. When he did, instead of cooperating by walking toward them, “he stopped and laid on the ground,” she said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ther-video-shows-they-claim-he-ran-stop-sign/


"The suspect approached me" is one of many typical excuses for shooting. "He should have complied," the usual suspects usually say. This guy knew that. This guy knows about all the black people killed (or beaten then charged with resisting arrest). He was ****ing his pants. So he lies down to show he is no threat.

Felony evading charge for this? He did stop. He did get out. The one thing he didn't do is walk towards cops who were pointing guns at him.




It's sickening that one can say in all seriousness "at least they didn't start shooting." What is wrong with the police in this country? I know people all around the world. I never hear about this kind of insanity happening with any regularity in other European countries, etc. It's ridiculous.

If you keep driving when the police try to pull you over . . . it won't go well for you.
 
His 90 year old gramma was taking out of her ass and then fell over without being touched. The 'high drama' was started by the little ****ing moron running from the cop, then acting like a tool when he got out of the car. And people like you feed into his moronic actions trying to turn his ****ing stupidity into a racial incident.

YOU are the problem,

If you say so.
 
Facedown on his grandmother’s grassy Texas lawn, a young black man cried as officers pointed guns at him for his alleged failure to heed a stop sign. Neighbors and loved ones watching his May 16 arrest called for 21-year-old Tye Anders to put his hands down and screamed at officers for having their firearms ready. “He’s scared. Y’all have guns on him. He’s black,” one woman called out to the officers. “Do y’all not see how many black people are getting shot?” Police wanted Anders to walk toward them while they had their guns drawn, but Anders refused. “I’m scared,” he shrieked. His 90-year-old grandmother, dressed in a cream-colored nightgown, exited her brick home and stood by her wailing grandson with a walking stick in her left hand. “We just need him to comply so we can talk to him,” an officer said, according to dash-cam footage released by the City of Midland. Four officers moved closer to the pair to arrest Anders, with another one nearby with gun in hand. Anders’s grandmother fell during the arrest and chaos ensued.
.
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Anders is facing a felony evading charge. Police were trying to initiate a traffic stop for Anders’s alleged failure to stop at a traffic sign but he continued to drive to his grandmother’s house, according to a statement provided by Midland Public Information Officer Erin Bailey. Officers repeatedly instructed Anders to exit his car. When he did, instead of cooperating by walking toward them, “he stopped and laid on the ground,” she said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ther-video-shows-they-claim-he-ran-stop-sign/


"The suspect approached me" is one of many typical excuses for shooting. "He should have complied," the usual suspects usually say. This guy knew that. This guy knows about all the black people killed (or beaten then charged with resisting arrest). He was ****ing his pants. So he lies down to show he is no threat.

Felony evading charge for this? He did stop. He did get out. The one thing he didn't do is walk towards cops who were pointing guns at him.

It's sickening that one can say in all seriousness "at least they didn't start shooting." What is wrong with the police in this country? I know people all around the world. I never hear about this kind of insanity happening with any regularity in other European countries, etc. It's ridiculous.

Leftists spotlight biased views of a tiny portion of arrests designed to inflame the ignorant to violence. America does not need the violent and those promoting violence.

Do not vote democrat this fall if you do not want America turned into a leftist liberal brutal government controlled burning chaotic wasteland.
 
The video link is in OP ( YouTube ) . Even after he got to grandma's he refused to get out of the car for several minutes and then hoped out with an attitude. Either way, fleeing the police in a vehicle makes it a felony under Texas law and if you watch the video, he had plenty of places to pull over before he got to grandma's house.

All can say to this is, after viewing the video, is that this is one way to handle this set of circumstances. It is not how I was trained to do it, and not how I trained others. Many departments have many different ways to deal with situations like this one. I prefer the way my department does it but I am not going to cast dispersions on other departments for how they do it.

This is how it would have gone down in my jurisdiction:

The video begins at approx. 1339 hours local time. The suspect is being followed at what appears to be normal speeds within a residential community. Locations would have been called in, the radio channel would have been cleared of other voice traffic, and a supervisor assigned to the pursuit to monitor it and break it off if it seemed to becoming dangerous to the community. As it was rolling at traffic normal speeds it would have likely remained engaged the two minute length we are privy to on the recording and ended, as this one did, in the grandmother's driveway.

He was stopped in his grandmother's driveway at 1341 hours so that is two minutes of slow speed pursuit we are watching.

The pursuing officer would have relayed the location of the stop immediately and a backup that would already have been in route would be advised.

Upon arrival the engaging officer would have waited for the backup to assume a cover position at gun ready, NOT drawn but holstered and hands on, and then the engaging officer would have taken a cover position behind his open door, getting better view inside the vehicle and allowing the suspect to see him as people respond better to the uniform and seeing the officer than to commands given to them from a squad car.

IN the case of a pursuit, when he finally came out we would have ordered him to the ground and approached him once he was away from the vehicle and can't get at anything inside of it. So his placing himself on the ground would have been fine by me. We have a lot of gang activity where I use to work so we would cuff people for THEIR protection as well as ours in a situation where eluding had taken place. We also aren't waiting around for people outside the circumstances to inject themselves into the situation, allow it to devolve into a crowd scene and other people becoming suspects themselves by interfering with an officer in the performance of their duty.

The second that crowd started to interact with the officers that one man unit would have been on its way into the Pct with the cuffed suspect patted down in the holding rear section and an escort unit following it in. A determination would have been quickly made as to whether that car the suspect was driving needed to be impounded. If so a unit would be left to meet the dispatched tow truck. At the Pct the determination would be made to summons and release, or process for detainment for further charges added to the traffic offenses.

No fallen old lady. No dealing with the belligerent neighbors coming out to insert themselves into the scenario and possibly requiring arrest themselves.

A quick de-escalation of the situation by removal of the suspect from the area by going to him, taking control, and leaving the scene.

Again, that is how we did it. That DOES NOT mean how they did it was wrong. Different departments work in different ways, and have different systems.

We operated in the NYPD, "New Centurion", model. Other departments use the LAPD, Philadelphia PD, "Law Enforcement" model. I vasty prefer the New Centurion methodology, but that is me.

These are terms most of you never heard before. You weren't suppose to. You didn't do this for a living. I am not attempting to be callus when I state I wouldn't try to tell you good folks how to do what you do to earn a living if I had absolutely no knowledge of it.

That you have feelings and opinions is fair, and I am not suggesting you shouldn't. I am suggesting that you accept the fact, as it is a fact, that lack of direct knowledge of something does mean one is not qualified to make a job performance review.

If one has issues then one addresses them with their vote, the hierarchy of the department or their civilian review board, and in a manner complying with the law. If one feels unqualified to do so one hires legal counsel to act for them. Not by engaging in rioting, destruction of property, or other criminal activity that makes matters worse, not better.
 
Well now holy ****...that puts the entire incident into a completely different perspective, doesnt it. Cant help but wonder how many of the people here ****ting themselves over the eeeevil cops will actually view the whole video and admit they were wrong.

The OP thinks it's all fine and dandy not to stop for the cops and then refuse to get out of the vehicle for 5 minutes.

The OP thinks it's all fine and dandy for people to interfere with a police stop.

Racists! Racists! Racists everywhere!

Trump's Murica!
 
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