Lowest ice cover ever at both poles[W:284]

[Jack Hays]

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

:wow: That Trump fella is even more gifted than I thought! To read that he has the time and the ability to obstruct satellite research is astonishing! How he finds the time to do that when we're also told he golfs 22/7 (I'm allotting him two hours each day to send tweets to his followers) is amazing! Makes me wonder if what I'm reading is true... know what I mean? And it's only Tuesday of this week! :lamo

*sarcasm intended*

Greetings, Polgara.:2wave:

Nicely done. :mrgreen:

 

[backpacker]

The ice melt we see from CO2 is insignificant compared to the ice melt from soot.

Probably so, but they are still having trouble modeling melting with so many variables, especially when sea ice can be melting from the bottom, the top, or both.

 

[Threegoofs]

how can both poles be in winter? explain?

They can’t. Read.

 

[Threegoofs]

and so what if it melts? what will happen exactly?

Read a little and get back to us.

Here’s a start.

https://climatekids.nasa.gov

 

[Lord of Planar]

how can both poles be in winter? explain?

It comes from a source of warmer faith.

Their deity is powerful!

 

[blackjack50]

Wow ! The things you guys come up with :lol:

Wait. You aren't denying the thing about arctic Travel are you? That is a fact jack. There is a northwest passage now. Canada loves it too.

 

[Jack Hays]

Wait. You aren't denying the thing about arctic Travel are you? That is a fact jack. There is a northwest passage now. Canada loves it too.

Not sure that's accurate.

 

[flogger]

Wait. You aren't denying the thing about arctic Travel are you? That is a fact jack. There is a northwest passage now. Canada loves it too.

The Arctic ice is just fine and is well within the limits of natural variation in recent millenia. Theres no reason whatsoever to indict humanity for the current very minor fluctuation as these Greenland ice core proxies illustrate (from the Kobayashi 2011 peer reviewed paper )

 

[blackjack50]

The Arctic ice is just fine and is well within the limits of natural variation in recent millenia. Theres no reason whatsoever to indict humanity for the current very minor fluctuation as these Greenland ice core proxies illustrate (from the Kobayashi 2011 peer reviewed paper )
View attachment 67224690

I seem to recall your nation looking for a northwest passage and not finding it. Why would we start finding it now?

On a second note, I'm curious. Would you support Green tech if it were cheaper?

 

[flogger]

I seem to recall your nation looking for a northwest passage and not finding it. Why would we start finding it now?

I don't doubt it has been open many times in the last few thousand years when we weren't there to see it so its no big deal

On a second note, I'm curious. Would you support Green tech if it were cheaper?

And (importantly) if it actually worked yes I would

 

[jc456]

Read a little and get back to us.

Here’s a start.

https://climatekids.nasa.gov

sorry, but I don't understand your link and polar ice melt. perhaps you could copy and paste from your link what you intended for me to read.

 

[Threegoofs]

sorry, but I don't understand your link and polar ice melt. perhaps you could copy and paste from your link what you intended for me to read.

Yeah. The 'Climate Kids' website is pretty complicated to get. So many words and stuff.

Maybe this portion might help, but I'm guessing you probably should read the whole thing to get a background understanding of the issue before moving to this advanced stuff.

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/

How can so little warming cause so much melting?

Water can soak up a lot of heat. When the oceans get warmer, sea ice begins to melt in the Arctic and around Greenland. NASA's Earth satellites show us that every summer some Arctic ice melts and shrinks, getting smallest by September. Then, when winter comes, the ice grows again.

But, since 1979, the September ice has been getting smaller and smaller and thinner and thinner. Check out the Climate Time Machine and watch the ice shrink.

(Two images of Earth's Arctic area as described in caption.)
Earth's Arctic area: On left, the ice cap covers a large part of the Arctic Ocean. this image is an average of the ice extent during Septembers of 1979-1981. On right, however, a much smaller area is covered by ice in September 2007.
Ref: NASA - Arctic Sea Ice Reaches Lowest Coverage for 2008.

Three sets of two images each, showing how glaciers have shrunk over time. Columbia Glacier from 1980 - 2005; Arapaho Glacier from 1898 to 2003; and Grinnell Glacier from 1940 - 2006.
See how much three glaciers have shrunk over time. Columbia Glacier from 1980 - 2005; Arapaho Glacier from 1898 to 2003; and Grinnell Glacier from 1940 - 2006.

Glaciers are another form of melting, shrinking ice. Glaciers are frozen rivers. They flow like rivers, only much slower. Lately, they have been speeding up. Many of them flow toward the ocean, then break off in chunks--sometimes huge chunks. In places such as Glacier National Park, the glaciers are melting and disappearing. The air is getting warmer, and less snow is falling during winter to renew the melted parts of the glaciers.

 

[jc456]

Yeah. The 'Climate Kids' website is pretty complicated to get. So many words and stuff.

Maybe this portion might help, but I'm guessing you probably should read the whole thing to get a background understanding of the issue before moving to this advanced stuff.

https://climatekids.nasa.gov/climate-change-evidence/

ok, so what is the explanation there on why it's important to have ice? I like warmer. is it dangerous to be warm?

 

[Threegoofs]

ok, so what is the explanation there on why it's important to have ice? I like warmer. is it dangerous to be warm?

You really should spend some time on that site.

 

[longview]

Wait. You aren't denying the thing about arctic Travel are you? That is a fact jack. There is a northwest passage now. Canada loves it too.

I think ice class ships can make it through the Northwest passage for maybe 5 weeks a year.
Much outside a fairly narrow time window, it is an extreme risk.
Even during the time window, the ice can close in on a ship due to weather.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I think ice class ships can make it through the Northwest passage for maybe 5 weeks a year.
Much outside a fairly narrow time window, it is an extreme risk.
Even during the time window, the ice can close in on a ship due to weather.

Wasn't there an expedition last year that had to stop several times waiting to see if the ice would cooperate?

 

[Jack Hays]

Wasn't there an expedition last year that had to stop several times waiting to see if the ice would cooperate?

[h=1]Arctic Climate Explorers give up sailing to the ‘melting’ North Pole because – there’s too much ice![/h]From the arcticmission reports, where they try to put the best spin on this colossal failure as reported by the BBC: Pen Hadow sets sail for North Pole as Arctic ice melts British explorer Pen Hadow and his crew have set sail from Alaska, in an attempt to become the first people ever to sail…

August 31, 2017 in Climate News.

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=1]New map of Antarctic geothermal heat suggests Steig & Mann 2009 weren’t measuring ‘global warming’[/h]This is quite interesting. Remember the claim in on the front cover of Nature in 2009 by Steig and Mann that Antarctica was warming, thanks to that “special Mannian PCA math sauce” that was applied to air temperature data to smear surface temperature trends over the entire continent? It was dashed by climate skeptics who…
Continue reading →

 

[Jack Hays]

Arctic / Sea ice
[h=1]Arctic sea ice expanding faster than normal[/h]Ice grew at 5,100 square kilometers (2,000 square miles) per day faster than the average rate of ice growth for the month during October From the National Snow and Ice Data Center: Rapid expansion of the Arctic sea ice cover is the norm for October as solar input dwindles and the remaining heat in the…

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=2]Antarctica cooling since Roman Times, climate models wrong (again)[/h]
A new study suggests temperatures across Antarctica have been falling for the last 1,600 years. This natural climate change would have been a threat to baby penguins, forcing them to walk much further across sea-ice for food. The cooling trend would have threatened inland lakes, shortened summer breeding periods, affected seal behaviour, extended glaciers over important habitats, and destroyed rare tundra. It may have contributed to the death of a man called Scott. If man-made climate change warmed Antarctica we need to burn more oil.
Any recent weak “man-made” warming trend would have slightly reversed this destructive slide — restoring the continent back to levels last seen in 1400AD. Though, given that the models are wrong about everything, including Antarctic warming, maybe not.

…
​

These trends are not what the Climate Models predicted for Antarctica. The slight recent warming trend is too small. (Polar Amplification, anyone?)
The Daily Caller:
However, Stenni admits the “absence of significant continent-scale warming of Antarctica over the last 100 years is in clear contrast with the significant industrial-era warming trends that are evident in reconstructions for all other continents (except Africa) and the tropical oceans.”
This lack of warming “is not in agreement with climate model simulations, which consistently produce a 20th century warming trend over Antarctica in response to greenhouse gas forcing,” Stenni wrote.
From Stenni, et al (2017)
We produce both unweighted and weighted isotopic (δ[SUP]18[/SUP]O) composites and temperature reconstructions since 0 CE, binned at 5- and 10-year resolution, for seven climatically distinct regions covering the Antarctic continent
Our new reconstructions confirm a significant cooling trend from 0 to 1900 CE across all Antarctic regions where records extend back into the 1st millennium, with the exception of the Wilkes Land coast and Weddell Sea coast regions. Within this long-term cooling trend from 0 to 1900 CE, we find that the warmest period occurs between 300 and 1000 CE, and the coldest interval occurs from 1200 to 1900 CE. Since 1900 CE, significant warming trends are identified for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the Dronning Maud Land coast and the Antarctic Peninsula regions…

For anyone who doesn’t know, as I’ve been saying for years, the parts of West Antarctica that have warmed lately seem to have big volcano’s under them, coincidence?:

• Antarctica – 91 volcanoes coincidentally found under glaciers warming “due to climate change”
• Giant blob of superheated rock under West Antarctica
• CO2 hits record high: Antarctic temperatures do nothing
• West Antarctica: more evidence it was the volcanoes that melted the ice
• That West Antarctic melting couldn’t be caused by volcanoes could it?

h/t GWPF
[h=4]REFERENCE[/h]Stenni, B., Curran, M. A. J., Abram, N. J., Orsi, A., Goursaud, S., Masson-Delmotte, V., Neukom, R., Goosse, H., Divine, D., van Ommen, T., Steig, E. J., Dixon, D. A., Thomas, E. R., Bertler, N. A. N., Isaksson, E., Ekaykin, A., Werner, M., and Frezzotti, M.: Antarctic climate variability on regional and continental scales over the last 2000 years, Clim. Past, 13, 1609-1634, https://doi.org/10.5194/cp-13-1609-2017, 2017.

 

[Threegoofs]

Ice Apocalypse

Rapid collapse of Antarctic glaciers could flood coastal cities by the end of this century.

By Eric Holthauson Nov 21, 2017

In a remote region of Antarctica known as Pine Island Bay, 2,500 miles from the tip of South America, two glaciers hold human civilization hostage.

Stretching across a frozen plain more than 150 miles long, these glaciers, named Pine Island and Thwaites, have marched steadily for millennia toward the Amundsen Sea, part of the vast Southern Ocean. Further inland, the glaciers widen into a two-mile-thick reserve of ice covering an area the size of Texas.

There’s no doubt this ice will melt as the world warms. The vital question is when.

The glaciers of Pine Island Bay are two of the largest and fastest-melting in Antarctica. (A Rolling Stone feature earlier this year dubbed Thwaites “The Doomsday Glacier.”) Together, they act as a plug holding back enough ice to pour 11 feet of sea-level rise into the world’s oceans — an amount that would submerge every coastal city on the planet. For that reason, finding out how fast these glaciers will collapse is one of the most important scientific questions in the world today.

To figure that out, scientists have been looking back to the end of the last ice age, about 11,000 years ago, when global temperatures stood at roughly their current levels. The bad news? There’s growing evidence that the Pine Island Bay glaciers collapsed rapidly back then, flooding the world’s coastlines — partially the result of something called “marine ice-cliff instability.”


Ice Apocalypse | Grist

 

[Threegoofs]

Contribution of Antarctica to past and future sea-level rise | Nature

 

[longview]

Ice Apocalypse

Rapid collapse of Antarctic glaciers could flood coastal cities by the end of this century.

By Eric Holthauson Nov 21, 2017

In a remote region of Antarctica known as Pine Island Bay, 2,500 miles from the tip of South America, two glaciers hold human civilization hostage.

Stretching across a frozen plain more than 150 miles long, these glaciers, named Pine Island and Thwaites, have marched steadily for millennia toward the Amundsen Sea, part of the vast Southern Ocean. Further inland, the glaciers widen into a two-mile-thick reserve of ice covering an area the size of Texas.

There’s no doubt this ice will melt as the world warms. The vital question is when.

The glaciers of Pine Island Bay are two of the largest and fastest-melting in Antarctica. (A Rolling Stone feature earlier this year dubbed Thwaites “The Doomsday Glacier.”) Together, they act as a plug holding back enough ice to pour 11 feet of sea-level rise into the world’s oceans — an amount that would submerge every coastal city on the planet. For that reason, finding out how fast these glaciers will collapse is one of the most important scientific questions in the world today.

To figure that out, scientists have been looking back to the end of the last ice age, about 11,000 years ago, when global temperatures stood at roughly their current levels. The bad news? There’s growing evidence that the Pine Island Bay glaciers collapsed rapidly back then, flooding the world’s coastlines — partially the result of something called “marine ice-cliff instability.”


Ice Apocalypse | Grist

So tell us again what is melting the Antarctic, when the GISS table says that whole region has not warmed.
https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/ZonAnn.Ts+dSST.txt
90 S to 64 S, not a lot of warming since the 1880's.

 

[Threegoofs]

So tell us again what is melting the Antarctic, when the GISS table says that whole region has not warmed.
https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/ZonAnn.Ts+dSST.txt
90 S to 64 S, not a lot of warming since the 1880's.

Yeah.

Nature will publish anything.

Those glaciologists really need to listen to anonymous engineers.

 

[longview]

Yeah.

Nature will publish anything.

Those glaciologists really need to listen to anonymous engineers.

So again, how is the increased Antarctic air temperature melting the ice, when there has been almost no measurable
increase in Antarctic air temperature?