LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***[W:1213]

[VanceMack]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Nicholas Cruz used 10 round magazines.

Right...but you see...he isnt really making a cohesive argument. He is just throwing out a bunch of anti-gun rhetoric and when it gets blown up ignores it or just says well...thats not what I am talking about.

He is about to go in the box.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I mean ten dead nine of which were students, is that seen as a good result now in the US?

Yeah we are suppossed to be happy it was not more......this is insanity

 

[apdst]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I mean ten dead nine of which were students, is that seen as a good result now in the US?

It isn't. That's why we need more security measures in place in our schools.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

It isn't. That's why we need more security measures in place in our schools.

Notice it is not happening....and its not going to

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

The CDC budget for anything to do with studying gun violence was cut 96%. Can’t do much of anything with that, advocacy or not. That is, effectively, a ban on research. And the term “ban” is commonly used among legislators.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-launched-comprehensive-gun-study-15-years/story?id=39873289

The FBI and DOJ do not look at many characteristics that CDC would. They do not have an integrated data system as would CDC. They do not do as comprehensive a study on how perpetrators acquire weapons, for instance, and thus come up with mistaken stats.

tell me why doctors who bragged about doing to guns what they did to Tobacco should be given tax dollars to undermine our rights. I spent 24 years as a federal prosecutor (DOJ) and I believe the DOJ and the FBI has a far higher level of expertise on how criminals operate and how they get guns than doctors who ought to be spending more time eliminating the 100,000 or more PREVENTABLE deaths each year from MEDICAL MISTAKES and figuring out what to do with say the hospital based MRSAs that kill millions including my late father who contracted the infection from an unsterile trach tube

 

[apdst]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Notice it is not happening....and its not going to

Notice the shootings keep happening.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Notice the shootings keep happening.

Not in developed countries with effective gun control.....you plan does not work anywhere

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

sure - why do you want to keep moving the goal posts instead of talking about guns?

You could be right on the money about the parents evaluation of this kid. And they were wrong. So what price should they pay for this horrible lapse in judgment?

Btw, this statement applies to every kid that commits suicide.

How is that handled under the law? Charges for the parents? No. Why not?

I didnt. You were demanding an answer to how I would hold the parents responsible.

So I asked how the legal system hold parents responsible in a comparable situation. A kid shouldnt have gotten hold of a gun....due obviously to mental/emotional issues...and killed himself. Because I cant see a difference in parental responsibility.

YOU indicated the parents should be punished for their mistake: "a horrible lapse in judgement."So, would you lay that same responsibility on parents of a teen that suicides? (gun or not)? And should the parents 'pay a price for their lapse in judgement? If not, what's the difference in parental responsibility or parental judgement from the Santa Fe shooting?

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

Laws can't pinpoint specific crimes, just criminal behavior in general. Gun laws can help deter gun related crimes, in general.

Which gun laws, that we dont have, deter gun-related crimes? Please be specific.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

in other words you're just speculating from a position of ignorance. we used common Remington 1100 riot guns for the trick shooting since they held ten rounds.

Speculation? How many competitive skeet shooters have you seen that use just one arm? Only ones you will see doing that are those that are missing an arm. Exhibition shooting or trick shooting with a shotgun is really pretty pointless for the purpose of this discussion. That's not based on everyday reality and I'm pretty sure that the Santa Fe shooter used both his hands firing his shotgun. For the average person shooting a shotgun with just one hand like they may have seen in some movie somewhere is good way to end up busting your nose open.

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

How are law abiding people being hurt by laws?

They reduce OUR safety. They give the advantage to the criminals who will always have guns. You'll never get rid of their guns. Why should we be crippled with lesser means to protect ourselves?

See these failures: Prohibition, War on Drugs

I can give you specifics but from experience, most of you anti-gun people dont give a crap about 'our' safety.

From another thread: "For me, after reading so many people asking for 'something' and then seeing the proposals for new laws or restrictions...I see things proposed that do not take legal gun owner's safety, lives, into consideration.

It's all about the 'innocent victims.' Yes, we all do care (most of us anyway) but *I* see things being proposed that completely dismiss and disregard *my* safety, my life.

Atho many gun owners, including myself, own guns for recreational purposes, most also keep them to protect themselves and their familes.

And I almost never see *us* considered in these proposals...the impacts on our lives and safety. We are choosing NOT to be the next 'innocent victims,' yet it seems that would be better than non-gun owning people becoming such?"

 

[Black Dog]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Speculation? How many competitive skeet shooters have you seen that use just one arm? Only ones you will see doing that are those that are missing an arm. Exhibition shooting or trick shooting with a shotgun is really pretty pointless for the purpose of this discussion. That's not based on everyday reality and I'm pretty sure that the Santa Fe shooter used both his hands firing his shotgun. For the average person shooting a shotgun with just one hand like they may have seen in some movie somewhere is good way to end up busting your nose open.

Ummm... Just a quick question.

What does firing a shotgun with one hand have to do with anything TD said? I'll tell you... Nothing. Which makes your whole post kind of pointless, and him pointing out your "speculating from a position of ignorance" as accurate.

 

[apdst]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Not in developed countries with effective gun control.....you plan does not work anywhere

My plan works in court houses, banks and airports.

It does indeed happen in developed countries

England
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

France
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shootin

Germany
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Luca_feud

Sweden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Holland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

Austria
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nenzing_shooting

 

[vegas giants]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

My plan works in court houses, banks and airports.

It does indeed happen in developed countries

England
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

France
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shootin

Germany
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Luca_feud

Sweden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Holland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

Austria
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nenzing_shooting

My god I wish we had the gun death rate of any of those countries. Thank you for making my case loud and clear

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Speculation? How many competitive skeet shooters have you seen that use just one arm? Only ones you will see doing that are those that are missing an arm. Exhibition shooting or trick shooting with a shotgun is really pretty pointless for the purpose of this discussion. That's not based on everyday reality and I'm pretty sure that the Santa Fe shooter used both his hands firing his shotgun. For the average person shooting a shotgun with just one hand like they may have seen in some movie somewhere is good way to end up busting your nose open.

you miss the point mainly because its pretty obvious to me you know almost nothing about using firearms. Pistol grips=one of the things that cause displays of public garment soiling by the gun hating hysterics in the press, political offices and message boards-don't make a firearm any more deadly. I'd explain why they are popular on firearms that use military surplus parts to access economies of scale but one would have to actually understand how firearms work to get the point

 

[apdst]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

My god I wish we had the gun death rate of any of those countries. Thank you for making my case loud and clear

They would love to have our civil rights.

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

You make a false assumption by saying I want to “handicap honest citizens.” I don’t consider licensing and registration of autos a handicap. It does not prevent you from driving or owning a car. Nor would it from owning and operating a firearm. Firearm restrictions do not necessarily deny anyone their 2nd A rights where public safety is a concern.

What gun harm/crimes do licensing and registration prevent?

Please be specific.

 

[haymarket]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I didnt. You were demanding an answer to how I would hold the parents responsible.

So I asked how the legal system hold parents responsible in a comparable situation. A kid shouldnt have gotten hold of a gun....due obviously to mental/emotional issues...and killed himself. Because I cant see a difference in parental responsibility.

YOU indicated the parents should be punished for their mistake: "a horrible lapse in judgement."So, would you lay that same responsibility on parents of a teen that suicides? (gun or not)? And should the parents 'pay a price for their lapse in judgement? If not, what's the difference in parental responsibility or parental judgement from the Santa Fe shooting?

What is your obsession with trying to move the goalposts to other situations and calling them "comparable" as some sort of personal justification? you really seem to want to do all you can to avoid facing the issue of people with mental problems owning guns.

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

It’s about all firearm related deaths, especially suicide, that gun control laws impact.

First, can you please explain why ALL law-abiding gun owners, who keep guns for protection and recreation and by Constitutional right, should be punished because some people have desperate personal issues? It can actively harm us by removing our chosen means of protection.

Gun suicides are not a risk to public safety, it's wrong to punish everyone for their illness.

And then please explain: since the very most basic tenet of the 2A is to own a gun, what gun laws would you propose to stop adult suicide?

I cant think of one...it requires the complete repeal of the 2A. Is that your real intent?

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

They would love to have our civil rights.

I'm not sure that the countries listed above would love to have our civil rights when it comes to "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." I think that many citizens of other countries believe the government should be in charge of doling out rights. It appears that vegas giant goes right along with that train of thought too because his old standby is to compare our country to those countries who have the authority to dole out rights to their citizens. Gun confiscation comes to mind. Can you imagine this happening here? I wonder if this is the real goal of the "gun control" crowd.

 

[Lursa]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

What is your obsession with trying to move the goalposts to other situations and calling them "comparable" as some sort of personal justification? you really seem to want to do all you can to avoid facing the issue of people with mental problems owning guns.

Dont lie. I didnt move the goal posts. I dont know the penalties for allowing your child to get hold of a gun and kill with it. So I used a comparable situation and asked you.

It is comparable and I used your exact words to prove it: The parents had a 'horrible lapse in judgement' in not seeing their kid's state of mind and allowed that kid to kill schoolmates or himself with their gun.

YOU asked: So what price should they pay for this horrible lapse in judgment?

And now you dont want to answer it and are attacking me.

Why cant you just answer the question?

 

[Atomic Kid]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

registration and licensing only impede honest people from owning guns by increasing the cost and the hassle. every group that wants to ban firearms wants licenses and registration. and its magazine limits that handicap honest people-a point I clearly explained and which you ignored

What a bunch of BS that is. When it comes to our children' safety and the safety of the public in general I would say that the little extra hassle of having to undergo a registration and licensing process is a very small inconvenience and price to pay. If you are a sane, honest and law abiding person than you will have nothing worry about. You will get your gun.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

What a bunch of BS that is. When it comes to our children' safety and the safety of the public in general I would say that the little extra hassle of having to undergo a registration and licensing process is a very small inconvenience and price to pay. If you are a sane, honest and law abiding person than you will have nothing worry about. You will get your gun.

But the form is made of kryptonite you see.....so theres that

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

What a bunch of BS that is. When it comes to our children' safety and the safety of the public in general I would say that the little extra hassle of having to undergo a registration and licensing process is a very small inconvenience and price to pay. If you are a sane, honest and law abiding person than you will have nothing worry about. You will get your gun.

you have to prove those schemes actually improve public safety. I love the attitude-if you aren't guilty you shouldn't care about

1) your fourth amendment rights
2) your fifth amendment rights
3) your sixth amendment rights

if you aren't a criminal you shouldn't care if the police come into your house without a warrant looking for drugs, porn etc

If you aren't a criminal, you shouldn't care if you are pulled over and searched just because the cops feel like it

sorry, but this sort of fascist attitude is disgusting in a free society

 

[Atomic Kid]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Originally posted by Black Dog - Ummm... Just a quick question.

What does firing a shotgun with one hand have to do with anything TD said? I'll tell you... Nothing. Which makes your whole post kind of pointless, and him pointing out your "speculating from a position of ignorance" as accurate.

It doesn't have anything do with what you said because someone else said it and not you. Duh!