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Let's Talk about Christopher Columbus

calamity

calamity

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Never has a man been so lost and so clueless as to think he was half-a-world away from his landing spot, and yet still be considered a hero for almost 600 years. Now, that is some mythical **** right there.
 
calamity said:
Never has a man been so lost and so clueless as to think he was half-a-world away from his landing spot, and yet still be considered a hero for almost 600 years. Now, that is some mythical **** right there.
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Uh, Christopher Columbus believed that he had actually reached India. In fact, until the day he died, he never relented his belief that he had found India.
 
TheGoverness said:
Uh, Christopher Columbus believed that he had actually reached India. In fact, until the day he died, he never relented his belief that he had found India.
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You do realize that is what I wrote. Right?
 
calamity said:
You do realize that is what I wrote. Right?
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You said he thought he was half-a-world away from his landing spot. That's not the case. He thought he reached his landing spot.
 
Not to mention he never set foot in North America...the Caribbean and Bahama Islands yes...but North America...no...
 
TheGoverness said:
You said he thought he was half-a-world away from his landing spot. That's not the case. He thought he reached his landing spot.
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Reading it again, I realize I butchered what I wanted to say. My bad.
 
Well you guys are been trying to destroy any reference to him to include
criminal activity. What stuff are you going to tear up next?
 
calamity said:
Never has a man been so lost and so clueless as to think he was half-a-world away from his landing spot, and yet still be considered a hero for almost 600 years. Now, that is some mythical **** right there.
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He was an heroic figure in my view. I'm judging him based on the time period he was in. It took guts and leadership for him to set on the mission he did. And "dead reckoning" was a skill I do not have nor I doubt most people that recreationally sail today have. He was not a stupid man.

I don't think he has been canonized as a saint in the Catholic Church, so, he evidently is believed by sufficient number of people, nor by the evidence in his personal life, to have been a saint.

But as a sailor for his period, as a commander of men with no 9-11 to call or American military to fly into the air and parachute soldiers in to rescue him and his men, he had courage and ambition and so goes for the European knowledge of the world at the time he made them aware of other worlds (for which more Europeans came). I don't care to hear the talk about the Vikings because if so many Europeans had their knowledge of the Americas then Christopher Columbus would not have been needed. Assuming the Vikings even were in the Americas.
 
Happy Native American Day :)
 
FastPace said:
He was an heroic figure in my view. I'm judging him based on the time period he was in. It took guts and leadership for him to set on the mission he did. And "dead reckoning" was a skill I do not have nor I doubt most people that recreationally sail today have. He was not a stupid man.

I don't think he has been canonized as a saint in the Catholic Church, so, he evidently is believed by sufficient number of people, nor by the evidence in his personal life, to have been a saint.

But as a sailor for his period, as a commander of men with no 9-11 to call or American military to fly into the air and parachute soldiers in to rescue him and his men, he had courage and ambition and so goes for the European knowledge of the world at the time he made them aware of other worlds (for which more Europeans came). I don't care to hear the talk about the Vikings because if so many Europeans had their knowledge of the Americas then Christopher Columbus would not have been needed. Assuming the Vikings even were in the Americas.
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I have no problem with people saying Columbus was no slouch, and that he knew how to sail a ship or three. But the myth of Columbus is a far cry from the real Columbus.
 
FastPace said:
He was an heroic figure in my view. I'm judging him based on the time period he was in. It took guts and leadership for him to set on the mission he did. And "dead reckoning" was a skill I do not have nor I doubt most people that recreationally sail today have. He was not a stupid man.

I don't think he has been canonized as a saint in the Catholic Church, so, he evidently is believed by sufficient number of people, nor by the evidence in his personal life, to have been a saint.

But as a sailor for his period, as a commander of men with no 9-11 to call or American military to fly into the air and parachute soldiers in to rescue him and his men, he had courage and ambition and so goes for the European knowledge of the world at the time he made them aware of other worlds (for which more Europeans came). I don't care to hear the talk about the Vikings because if so many Europeans had their knowledge of the Americas then Christopher Columbus would not have been needed. Assuming the Vikings even were in the Americas.
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He was a genocidal maniac and child rapist even by the standards of his time. Till his dying days he thought he was in India, he didn't even now he discovered another continent and the Vikings had been in Newfoundland for a long time.
 
FastPace said:
He was an heroic figure in my view. I'm judging him based on the time period he was in. It took guts and leadership for him to set on the mission he did. And "dead reckoning" was a skill I do not have nor I doubt most people that recreationally sail today have. He was not a stupid man.

I don't think he has been canonized as a saint in the Catholic Church, so, he evidently is believed by sufficient number of people, nor by the evidence in his personal life, to have been a saint.

But as a sailor for his period, as a commander of men with no 9-11 to call or American military to fly into the air and parachute soldiers in to rescue him and his men, he had courage and ambition and so goes for the European knowledge of the world at the time he made them aware of other worlds (for which more Europeans came). I don't care to hear the talk about the Vikings because if so many Europeans had their knowledge of the Americas then Christopher Columbus would not have been needed. Assuming the Vikings even were in the Americas.
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Ever hear of L'Anse aux Meadows. Proof the Vikings had a settlement in Newfoundland around 1,000 AD. Close to 500 years before Columbus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Anse_aux_Meadows
 
calamity said:
I have no problem with people saying Columbus was no slouch, and that he knew how to sail a ship or three. But the myth of Columbus is a far cry from the real Columbus.
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Myths of people usually are a far cry from what they actually were.
 
calamity said:
I have no problem with people saying Columbus was no slouch, and that he knew how to sail a ship or three. But the myth of Columbus is a far cry from the real Columbus.
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I've never really read a lot (only a little) about the guy. It would not surprise me if you are correct. But you know... the "noble savage" theme non-Amerindians run with is a myths too. At least about a large portion of the various Amerindian nations.
 
Are we ever going to get to the point where mentioning his name in a positive light even vaguely invites scorn and general abuse?

OH YA!, we are there already.

WE USED TO BE BETTER
 
Carjosse said:
He was a genocidal maniac and child rapist even by the standards of his time.
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Hmm... I live in Milwaukee... aside from this Amerindian run Casino in Milwaukee care to tell me why I don't see any Amerindians in Milwaukee?





As for child rapist I don't know if you are talking about Thomas Jefferson one of the Founding Fathers of the USA or Christopher Columbus.

The genocide part sounds like the way many Amerindian nations fought each other.




Till his dying days he thought he was in India...
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So what?

I refer to Teddy Roosevelt about "the man in the arena." What have you or I accomplished on such a large international scale as Columbus?


...he didn't even now he discovered another continent and the Vikings had been in Newfoundland for a long time.
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Again... so what?
 
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FastPace said:
Hmm... I live in Milwaukee... aside from this Amerindian run Casino in Milwaukee care to tell me why I don't see any Amerindians in Milwaukee?

As for child rapist I don't know if you are talking about Thomas Jefferson one of the Founding Fathers of the USA or Christopher Columbus.

The genocide part sounds like the way many Amerindian nations fought each other.






So what?

I refer to Teddy Roosevelt about "the man in the arena." What have you or I accomplished on such a large international scale as Columbus?




Again... so what?
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You wanted to look at him as a man of his time, but in his time he was considered a monster. He did not hesitate to massacre Amerindians or rape some Amerindian children. He gave child sex slaves as gifts to his men. There is literally no reason to celebrate the man, he accomplished something the Vikings did several centuries earlier as well as being a psychopath. You don't see Germany celebrating Hitler Day.
 
Perotista said:
Ever hear of L'Anse aux Meadows. Proof the Vikings had a settlement in Newfoundland around 1,000 AD. Close to 500 years before Columbus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Anse_aux_Meadows
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Is that proof or evidence?

Really, I have no dog in the fight about Vikings reaching the Americas before Christopher Columbus. In other words, I'm not emotionally invested in it one way or the other. It is evident a bunch (not few) of people arrived in the Americas long before any Europeans. We call them various things like "Indians," "Amerindians," "First Nation" people.

Why stop with Christopher Columbus anyways? I mean listen to the official name of the USA: United States of America.

What or who could "America" refer to by the way? Probably not an Anglo-Saxon. And why the hell would Amerindians want to celebrate a flag celebrating "America" as opposed to the 6 Nations or the Vikings?
 
He proved the world wasn't flat.
 
FastPace said:
I've never really read a lot (only a little) about the guy. It would not surprise me if you are correct. But you know... the "noble savage" theme non-Amerindians run with is a myths too. At least about a large portion of the various Amerindian nations.
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I believe I did my Columbus training at the height of his mythology, probably made worse by attending elementary school in a predominantly Italian neighborhood. So, my education on CC was pretty whacked. Not only did he discover America, but as my teachers told it, he was the only person on Earth who knew the world was round. :lol:
 
Co.umbus is a perfect example of how US History is generally distorted on almost every issue. He was a scumbag, no question about it. So why was he honored in our History/SocialStudies classes for so long? How many other examples of distorted history are there? S.O.P.. Standard Operating Procedure. I would recommend the History of the US, by Howard Zinn. Much closer to the truth.
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