Leftists, is spying on a political campaign without cause legal?

[Sandy Shanks]

If the Obama administration or the FBI broke the law, they should be prosecuted. No-one should be above the law. It's that simple.

IF??? We still have no idea what Barr is talking about. If you know, please let us know.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Not for lack of trying.

Trump-Russia Collusion fake investigation, with FISA warrants obtained by deception.

Hillary getting debate questions early.

MSM's constant misrepresentation of Trump rally statements/actions.

MSM's constant positive spin of every Hillary action.

DOJ reducing server investigation to a "matter."

No "midnight raids with armed agents" on Hillary to "seize servers and other evidence" with coverage by CNN.

Etc., etc., etc..

Another Trump fan who makes things up as he goes along. He never uses sources for his over the top accusations because they are false.

 

[apdst]

Sorry, but this is just dumb. Every word of it is demonstrably false. The evidence of criminality throughout the Trump campaign...the Trump administration...and Trump himself...is LITERALLY mountainous.

These are the ridiculous ramblings of another right-winger who has read ONE WORD of the Mueller Report.

All you know is what you've seen and heard from the fakenews media.

Prove me wrong. Post your evidence.

 

[apdst]

This is a lie that is only believed by the fruits and nuts on the far-right.

There was ZERO illegal spying. Everything was legal.

The real scandal was that so many high level Trump campaign officials were being caught on wiretaps strategizing about the 2016 election with Russian government officials and agents. Only corrupt ideologues and stupid people continue to promote your discredited conspiracy theory, above.

If it was legal, the FBI wouldn't have lied to the FISA court.

 

[Barnacle]

Of course. Nothing can be allowed to happen that would help get Trump reelected. Truth is unimportant. Lie, cheat, steal...whatever it takes.

Yep ... Harry Reid proudly told us so.

 

[Casper]

Benghazi!!!!

 

[Captain Adverse]

Another Trump fan who makes things up as he goes along. He never uses sources for his over the top accusations because they are false.

You've been here barely six months. That means you have absolutely no idea of the histories of anyone in this Forum who have been posting for years.

Before you make such allegations, try using the Forum tools to do a little research. It's a methodology which helps one to make informed statements.

Everything I have listed has been discussed from all sides over the past 4 years. It is also self-evident to anyone knowledgeable about the 2016 election period, and subsequent current events.

Meanwhile, I'd also suggest you check out my blogs...there are only 4 of them. Or if you are too "busy" (as evidenced by your poorly researched ad hominem post), just look at my tagline below.

Speaking of which? Tagline time. :coffeepap:

 

[ultmd]

No it wasn't. This is a fact now and facts don't give a damn about your opinion or your feelings.

:lamo
You're correct about one thing, my low-information friend: Facts don't give a damn about opinions or feelings.

Your problem is that you're so mindlessly brainwashed that you can't tell the difference between objective facts and the nonstop gaslighting you've been receiving from your favorite fakenews media sources. And in this case, ALL of the facts are on my side. It doesn't really matter what brainwashed cultists think or feel. Facts are Facts.

Sorry you got lied to by schiff and pelosi. We warned you. You were told not to believe them or trust them.

:lamo...Pelosi and Schiff?? That's funny, because it reveals the thinking of so many rightwingers like you.

Only lazy rightwingers rely upon their political leaders and t.v. personalities to tell what what to think.

People like me simply READ THE MUELLER REPORT. That's where ALL of the known, credible, relevant FACTS are to be found. You haven't read it, because (like most rightwing types) YOU HATE TO READ. So what you THINK you know about the ACTUAL FACTS, you got from watching FoxNews, etc.

So again, the FACTS are in the Mueller Report. If you haven't read it, you are not qualified to discuss this issue.

You guys just couldn't put down the koolaid long enough to listen to rationed logical thought.

:lamo...Your delusions are strong, I see.

My understanding of the entire Trump-Russia investigation comes from the Mueller Report. And there's no "koolaid" to be found in it. The FauxNews crowd would know that if you weren't so afraid to READ.

"Koolaid" is what you get from Hannity and Tucker...and from your favorite facebook feeds...every night. That's where you guys get ALL of your "news". And that's why you all are so ignorant about basic FACTS.

It blew up in your face and instead of just being adults and admitting you were wrong you leftist went further down the rabbit hole.

The words of a truly brainwashed Trumpophile.

The criminal deeds and corrupt behavior of Trump and his crime family are all well-known now. The only people who deny them are people like you. And you don't count. Ignorance and stupidity are no longer tolerated.

Sorry no on here has to deal with your stupid conspiracy theory nonsense anymore.

:lamo
IRONY ALERT!

the facts are out there already.No one was caught doing anything. there was NO EVIDENCE.

You're lying again. We are beyond the point where you are allowed to plead ignorance. You're just lying.

And the above is not just dishonest. It's down-right MORONIC.

There are NO FACTS suggesting that the surveillance of Trump campaign members like Flynn, Papadapolus, etc. was in ANY way 'illegal'. NONE.

To continue to argue that FACT is to be intentionally ignorant.

Yes all you have is conspiracy theories that has already been proven.

A classic case of PROJECTION, from you.

Your entire argument here is a fact-free conspiracy theory. READ THE MUELLER REPORT, or be forever the fool.

 

[ultmd]

Prove me wrong. Post your evidence.

Happy to do that:

The Mueller Report

Read it, and let's talk.

People like me, who actually KNOW WTF we're talking about...read this (every word of it) a year ago.

If you read it, you will forever be dispelled of the whole "Collusion Delusion" delusion that has seemingly infected the brain of EVERY Trump acolyte.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the idiotic notion that "no evidence was produced" of crimes committed by Trump and the highest levels of his campaign team.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the notion that ANYONE "lied" to get a FISA warrant.

And, quite frankly, I don't think you have any idea what you were talking about when you spoke about "probable cause".

If it was legal, the FBI wouldn't have lied to the FISA court.

This is a lie, of course. That's just dumb. The FBI did not lie.

If anyone at the FBI had "lied" to a FISA court, they have been indicted a LONG time ago.

You're attempting (and failing badly) to restate Bob Barr's weak arguments. And even he couldn't pull them off without being universally condemned by well-over 1000 former federal judges and prosecutors from both parties and from every corner of the country. So YOU (of all people) really shouldn't even try it. You have no idea what you're saying, here. It's just a ludicrous, legally-indefensible argument.

 

[Razoo]

It's starting to look bad for the Obama FBI flying monkeys. Do you care? Still don't believe it?

The GOP admin caused this pandemic economic crisis by ignoring their responsibility to keep the emergency preparedness inventory stocked up.*

Trump admin was advised in early 2017 by the military of this issue then the GOP turned a blind eye to the matter.*

The Obama admin also advised Trump in late 2016.*

Now nearly 150,000 humans have died due to GOP neglect. Is this murder or homicide?

 

[Moderate Right]

If there is a “deep state,” why isn’t Hillary POTUS?

LOL. You guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too funny. Did you already forget? Hillary won the popular vote!

 

[Moderate Right]

I'm sure any day now Obama and his FBI will be behind bars. We've waited almost 4 years, the prospect of waiting another 4 is nothing!

LOL. That's what you guys have been saying about Trump for four years now.

 

[Moderate Right]

Kidnapping citizens off the streets of Portland is unconstitutional. Do you even care?

Who has been kidnapped?

 

[Moderate Right]

It's coming any day now. I've read it on here thousands of times.

That's all we heard during the Mueller investigation and then the impeachment. "Don't worry. Be patient. It's right around the corner".

 

[apdst]

Happy to do that:

The Mueller Report

Read it, and let's talk.

People like me, who actually KNOW WTF we're talking about...read this (every word of it) a year ago.

If you read it, you will forever be dispelled of the whole "Collusion Delusion" delusion that has seemingly infected the brain of EVERY Trump acolyte.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the idiotic notion that "no evidence was produced" of crimes committed by Trump and the highest levels of his campaign team.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the notion that ANYONE "lied" to get a FISA warrant.

And, quite frankly, I don't think you have any idea what you were talking about when you spoke about "probable cause".





This is a lie, of course. That's just dumb. The FBI did not lie.

If anyone at the FBI had "lied" to a FISA court, they have been indicted a LONG time ago.

You're attempting (and failing badly) to restate Bob Barr's weak arguments. And even he couldn't pull them off without being universally condemned by well-over 1000 former federal judges and prosecutors from both parties and from every corner of the country. So YOU (of all people) really shouldn't even try it. You have no idea what you're saying, here. It's just a ludicrous, legally-indefensible argument.

No, you show me the specific part that proves me wrong. I'm not doing your ****ing work for you.

 

[Moderate Right]

She was being coy, I'm sure. OTOH, your remarks just seem silly.

No rational American believes there was any "spying' (on innocent U.S. persons) going on. Most Americans DO believe that there was a lot of criminal activity taking place in the Trump campaign, however.

Most Americans understand that the Trump campaign was literally filled with criminals who were in constant communication with hostile foreign governments in order to gain advantages over Clinton during the 2016 election season. The FBI (among others) was following people like Flynn, Manafort, Papadapolis, Gates, etc...because those people kept showing up on wiretaps of conversations with Russian agents in the U.S.

And, frankly, I think YOU are the one who "has no argument to justify" your position, apdst.

But I'm willing to listen. State your case so we can discuss.

Or, you can run. I think the odds are about 50/50.

They had Trump Tower bugged. Isn't that spying?

 

[Moderate Right]

Sorry, but this is just dumb. Every word of it is demonstrably false. The evidence of criminality throughout the Trump campaign...the Trump administration...and Trump himself...is LITERALLY mountainous.

These are the ridiculous ramblings of another right-winger who has read ONE WORD of the Mueller Report.

All you know is what you've seen and heard from the fakenews media.

It's only mountainous if you look through blue tinted glasses.

 

[ultmd]

You've been here barely six months. That means you have absolutely no idea of the histories of anyone in this Forum who have been posting for years.

Before you make such allegations, try using the Forum tools to do a little research. It's a methodology which helps one to make informed statements.

Everything I have listed has been discussed from all sides over the past 4 years. It is also self-evident to anyone knowledgeable about the 2016 election period, and subsequent current events

Well, Capt....I've been around here long enough to know that a good bit of what you had to say to Shanks...was just mindless rightwing feelings, not objective facts (i.e. bullcrap).

For example,

• -there were no "midnight raids with armed agents" of Hillary Clinton because.....she committed no crimes. Simple as that. To believe otherwise is to be delusional.
• -there was no "positive spin of every Hillary action". That's a biased, uninformed OPINION. You should work harder to distinguish the difference between facts and your feelings.
• -the so-called "MSM" certain did NOT "constantly misrepresent" Trump's statements and actions. That, too, is just an OPINION, not a fact. (Are you noticing a recurring theme, yet?)
• -if you still believe that the Russian investigation was hoax, and that the FISA warrants were illegally obtained....you're the fool, and you ought to consider an apology to the Shark.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to belittle Sandy Shanks, especially given the weakness of your point of view, but....don't start none, won't be none.

 

[Moderate Right]

Happy to do that:

The Mueller Report

Read it, and let's talk.

People like me, who actually KNOW WTF we're talking about...read this (every word of it) a year ago.

If you read it, you will forever be dispelled of the whole "Collusion Delusion" delusion that has seemingly infected the brain of EVERY Trump acolyte.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the idiotic notion that "no evidence was produced" of crimes committed by Trump and the highest levels of his campaign team.

Read it, and you will forever be dispelled of the notion that ANYONE "lied" to get a FISA warrant.

And, quite frankly, I don't think you have any idea what you were talking about when you spoke about "probable cause".





This is a lie, of course. That's just dumb. The FBI did not lie.

If anyone at the FBI had "lied" to a FISA court, they have been indicted a LONG time ago.

You're attempting (and failing badly) to restate Bob Barr's weak arguments. And even he couldn't pull them off without being universally condemned by well-over 1000 former federal judges and prosecutors from both parties and from every corner of the country. So YOU (of all people) really shouldn't even try it. You have no idea what you're saying, here. It's just a ludicrous, legally-indefensible argument.

And what exactly was Trump charged with from the Mueller report? Hell, they impeached Trump and not one word from the Mueller report.

 

[Moderate Right]

Well, Capt....I've been around here long enough to know that a good bit of what you had to say to Shark...was just mindless rightwing feelings, not objective facts (i.e. bullcrap).

For example,

• -there were no "midnight raids with armed agents" of Hillary Clinton because.....she committed no crimes. Simple as that. To believe otherwise is to be delusional.
• -there was no "positive spin of every Hillary action". That's a biased, uninformed OPINION. You should work harder to distinguish the difference between facts and your feelings.
• -the so-called "MSM" certain did NOT "constantly misrepresent" Trump's statements and actions. That, too, is just an OPINION, not a fact. (Are you noticing a recurring theme, yet?)
• -if you still believe that the Russian investigation was hoax, and that the FISA warrants were illegally obtained....you're the fool, and you ought to consider an apology to the Shark.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to belittle Sandy Shanks, especially given the weakness of your point of view, but....don't start none, won't be none.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to belittle Captain Adverse, especially given the weakness of your point of view, but....don't start none, won't be none.

 

[ultmd]

They had Trump Tower bugged. Isn't that spying?

First, that's a LIE. Trump Tower was NEVER bugged. Never.

DOJ: Trump Tower was NEVER bugged.


Donald Trump just flat-out lied about Trump Tower wiretapping


Secondly, apart from the bald-faced LIE, above, you're confused. Clearly, Trump Tower was never bugged. But more importantly, the ONLY reason Trump people were involved was that they KEPT showing up on telephone conversations with known Russian government officials and agents (i.e. "spies") who were being surveilled by the FBI. THAT is what WOULD be upsetting to you people...if you honestly even HALF the respect for the Constitution, our democracy that you all pretend to possess. Why were so many HIGH level Republicans in direct communication with so many Russian spies during the 2016 campaign, huh? THAT is the real scandal that people like you are afraid to address.

It's only mountainous if you look through blue tinted glasses.

Or, if you just READ THE DAMN MUELLER REPORT.

Either one, I suppose. But you'll never know which, because....YOU PEOPLE DO NOT READ!

:roll:

 

[ultmd]

No, you show me the specific part that proves me wrong. I'm not doing your ****ing work for you.

:lamo...typical deflection from you. People who don't read, do NOT get to dictate the discussion. Sorry.

No, it's I who will not do YOUR homework for you.

READ the damn Mueller Report, or hush up.

But I'll give you this much....You'll find most of what you need to understand (related to your previous remarks)....in the first 15 pages, or so.

So you won't even have to read it all, to know how ignorant your previous arguments were.

 

[ultmd]

And what exactly was Trump charged with from the Mueller report?

This is silly.

The Mueller Report explains in detail, that no charges against Trump would be forthcoming....and why. READ IT, my ignorant friend. READ IT, so you don't have to ask such ignorant questions about the investigation and it's ACTUAL findings (which vary greatly from the "findings" reported by Barr and the fakenews media).

Hell, they impeached Trump and not one word from the Mueller report.

"not one word from the Mueller Report"?

Where did you get that moronic tidbit from? Hannity or Tucker? Which one?

This is just dumb.

 

[Razoo]

Article 1. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has obstructed the administration of justice:

1. He attempted to fire Mueller. The Mueller report found “substantial evidence . . . that the President’s attempts to remove the Special Counsel were linked to the Special Counsel’s oversight of investigations that involved the President’s conduct.”

2. Trump attempted to curtail Mueller’s investigation. Mueller found “that the President’s effort to have [Attorney General Jeff] Sessions limit the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation to future election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”

3. He ordered White House counsel Donald McGahn to falsify the record to conceal his attempts to fire Mueller. Mueller found that Trump “acted . . . in order to deflect or prevent further scrutiny of the President’s conduct.”

4. He fired FBI Director James B. Comey, Mueller found, because of “Comey’s unwillingness to publicly state that the President was not personally under investigation.”

Moreover, Mueller wrote, by firing Comey “the President wanted to protect himself from an investigation into his campaign,” because he knew “that a thorough FBI investigation would uncover facts about the campaign and the President personally that the President could have understood to be crimes or that would give rise to personal and political concerns.” Trump showed awareness of guilt by advancing “a pretextual reason to the press and the public for Comey’s termination.”

5. He tried to dissuade Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, and other witnesses from cooperating with the government. The non-cooperation of Manafort and Stone, in particular, made it impossible to establish the exact nature of the relationship between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

Article II. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, failed to defend America from foreign election interference. As a candidate, he welcomed Russian intervention in the 2016 election and refused to notify the proper authorities of contacts between his campaign and representatives of Russia and WikiLeaks.

As president, he denied that the Russian attack had even occurred, accepted Russian President Vladimir Putin’s false denials of responsibility, and showed no interest in determining the full scale of the attack. He repeatedly called the Russia investigation a “hoax” and a “witch hunt” even though Mueller determined “that there were multiple, systematic efforts to interfere in our election” and that “the matters we investigated were of paramount importance.”

Article III. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, attempted to investigate and prosecute his political opponents. On three occasions, Mueller found, Trump asked the Justice Department to initiate investigations of Hillary Clinton. More recently, Trump and his attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, attempted to initiate an investigation of Joe Biden.

Article IV. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, failed to produce papers and testimony as duly directed by Congress. Trump obstructed at least 20 inquiries relating to his taxes, business records, the Mueller investigation and other matters.

Article V. Donald J. Trump, in violation of federal campaign finance laws, conspired with his attorney Michael Cohen in order to conceal alleged relationships with adult film actress Stormy Daniels and Playboy playmate Karen McDougal before the 2016 election.

Article VI. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to uphold Article 1, section 9 of the Constitution (“No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law”), attempted to misuse his emergency powers to spend funds on a border wall that Congress did not appropriate.

Article VII. Donald J. Trump, in violation of his oath to uphold the emoluments clauses (which forbid the president from accepting benefits from foreign and state governments without the permission of Congress) retains ownership of a global business empire which allows him to benefit from dealings with foreign and state governments.

ALEC GOP has committed more criminal and unconstitutional conduct under Trump than any previous president in U.S. history. The entire GOP and Trump administration must resign.

 

[Razoo]

The Trump administration is ill-prepared for a global pandemic
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...605bc6-1a49-11e7-9887-1a5314b56a08_story.html

April 8, 2017 The Trump administration has failed to fill crucial public health positions across the government, leaving the nation ill-prepared to face one of its greatest potential threats: