Latest sanctions on Russia amount to economic warfare

[Peter King]

Russia's Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev reportedly warned the U.S. on Friday that sanctions it plans to impose against Moscow over the nerve-agent attack of a former spy living in Britain could be treated as a declaration of an economic war.
Speaking during a trip to the Kamchatka region of Russia, Reuters reported Medvedev as saying: "I would not like to comment on talks about future sanctions, but I can say one thing: If some ban on banks' operations or on their use of one or another currency follows, it would be possible to clearly call it a declaration of economic war."
"And it would be necessary, it would be needed to react to this war economically, politically, or, if needed, by other means. And our American friends need to understand this," he added.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....o-economic-war--and-threatens-response-b.html

My question: is this what westerners really want?

Yes. I fullly support most if not all sanctions against Putin's government.

 

[Westphalian]

You know there are many innocent people in prissons, if all the evidence points to you then it's very unfortunate for you no matter whether you are guilty or innocent. Unfortunately for Russia there are more than enough evidence pointing in its direction, many consider a smoking gun unneccessary.

Having said that I have always liked Lavrov he is a very skilled diplomat, I also like the Russian Ambassador to Australia, he performed really well during an "interrogation" the Australian press put him through on the Skripal matter. Russia have also been far more on the ball when it comes to releasing official announcements to the press, compared to the Trump Administration who has a disfunctional relationship with the media. I think Russia do well to utilise their skilled diplomats in smoothing over many of the issues between America and Russia, it's in everyone's best interest for these two countries to not drift even further apart and credit to Pompeo also for his part in keeping the channel open.

Some great points HERA. Full credit to you for pointing this out.

Russia invests massively in its diplomatic service. A career in the service is prestigious and well rewarded, and it attracts some top talent.

There are some who take a balanced view as they see it, criticising Russia when they feel fit. Then there are some who will never credit Russia with anything, who will routinely criticise for everything. Western diplomatic services are not the best, often full of journeymen. US diplomacy is largely now based on threats or lectures (Kissinger it isn't). Even though Russian diplomats generally run rings round their western counterparts (Yakovenko in the UK, Zakharova in Moscow are also hugely talented), there are those who will refuse to face facts. They are the real haters.

 

[Jack Hays]

Some great points HERA. Full credit to you for pointing this out.

Russia invests massively in its diplomatic service. A career in the service is prestigious and well rewarded, and it attracts some top talent.

There are some who take a balanced view as they see it, criticising Russia when they feel fit. Then there are some who will never credit Russia with anything, who will routinely criticise for everything. Western diplomatic services are not the best, often full of journeymen. US diplomacy is largely now based on threats or lectures (Kissinger it isn't). Even though Russian diplomats generally run rings round their western counterparts (Yakovenko in the UK, Zakharova in Moscow are also hugely talented), there are those who will refuse to face facts. They are the real haters.

:bs A record load.

 

[Rogue Valley]

:bs A record load.

Indeed. The current Russian ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov.

His friendly diplomat face with business suit and tie.

His true face.....

Russian General, Deputy Minister of Defense, and under EU sanctions for Crimea/Donbas.

 

[Evilroddy]

Russia's Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev reportedly warned the U.S. on Friday that sanctions it plans to impose against Moscow over the nerve-agent attack of a former spy living in Britain could be treated as a declaration of an economic war.
Speaking during a trip to the Kamchatka region of Russia, Reuters reported Medvedev as saying: "I would not like to comment on talks about future sanctions, but I can say one thing: If some ban on banks' operations or on their use of one or another currency follows, it would be possible to clearly call it a declaration of economic war."
"And it would be necessary, it would be needed to react to this war economically, politically, or, if needed, by other means. And our American friends need to understand this," he added.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....o-economic-war--and-threatens-response-b.html

My question: is this what westerners really want?

Westphalian:

What Westerners want is almost completely irrelevant. What Western power elites want matters and that is to break Russia (politically, economically and militarily) and to prevent the rise of a coherent and cooperative Eurasian bloc of countries including Russia, China and India. Thus they are encircling Russia, China and courting India in an effort to prevent this. This is nothing new and has been going on since the end of WWII and the dawn of the Cold War.

These Western elites also want Russia out of Crimea, the rest of Ukraine and the Caucuses but that is more a secondary goal because these flash-points are convenient pretexts for the bigger struggle than a goal in and of themselves. Russia under Putin has been repeatedly challenging Western economic, political and military global hegemony and that is intolerable to these power-crashed elites. Russia's leadership in the BRICS movement, in creating and financing alternative financial institutions for global trade and its very successful global propaganda campaigns in the "free" western media are undermining western citizens' political complacency and making it more difficult for our elites to do their own dirty work unnoticed as Putin does his. Don't get me wrong. Putin is a very dangerous man but so are our Western leaders in London, Paris p, Brussels and Washington and a collision seems inevitable. Hopefully such a collision will be limited to economic and political means and will avoid direct military conflict, but I am not hopeful.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

:roll: That is so much BS. You and Fagan should move to Moscow.

 

[Westphalian]

Westphalian:

What Westerners want is almost completely irrelevant. What Western power elites want matters and that is to break Russia (politically, economically and militarily) and to prevent the rise of a coherent and cooperative Eurasian bloc of countries including Russia, China and India. Thus they are encircling Russia, China and courting India in an effort to prevent this. This is nothing new and has been going on since the end of WWII and the dawn of the Cold War.

These Western elites also want Russia out of Crimea, the rest of Ukraine and the Caucuses but that is more a secondary goal because these flash-points are convenient pretexts for the bigger struggle than a goal in and of themselves. Russia under Putin has been repeatedly challenging Western economic, political and military global hegemony and that is intolerable to these power-crashed elites. Russia's leadership in the BRICS movement, in creating and financing alternative financial institutions for global trade and its very successful global propaganda campaigns in the "free" western media are undermining western citizens' political complacency and making it more difficult for our elites to do their own dirty work unnoticed as Putin does his. Don't get me wrong. Putin is a very dangerous man but so are our Western leaders in London, Paris p, Brussels and Washington and a collision seems inevitable. Hopefully such a collision will be limited to economic and political means and will avoid direct military conflict, but I am not hopeful.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

Thanks Roddy - an informative and interesting answer.


Yet ironically, under Obama in particular, the US managed to drive Russia and China into a de facto alliance. Whilst the US courted Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand, and India, the Chinese and Russians reluctantly concluded that they needed to bury their differences. China finally settled on a long term gas supply price which was favourable to Russia, and Russia has sold its most sophisticated weapon systems to China, whilst both states now work together in the UN against US interests.

Small wonder Kissinger is advising Trump in how to undo this disaster. But I think it's too late. Trump realises that China is the key threat to the US, and that it needs to split Russia off from China by rapprochement. But the US Deep State wants none of this peace nonsense, and Russia has given up with the madmen leading the West (or hiding in the Deep State).

 

[Evilroddy]

:roll: That is so much BS. You and Fagan should move to Moscow.

Rogue Valley:

Thank you once again for making this personal rather than debating the issues on their merits.
.
See the following articles which are just two sources out of many that lay out the situation and refute your claim of BSing:

https://jamestown.org/program/chinese-russian-defense-and-security-ties-countering-us-encirclement/

https://carnegieendowment.org/2018/...-between-russia-and-west-in-eurasia-pub-75625

Have a great day.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Oceanborn]

What we are witnessing is the manifestation of the Economic Arm of Full Spectrum Dominance. The USA and its' forseeable never ending Trillion dollar deficits force the US to attempt to create a World Economic system that absolutely relies on the USA Fiat Currency Worldwide and everyone suffers if there is a default. That is what maintains the strength of the US fiat currency at this time. The Western banking monopoly of USA, Japan, EU, BIS, City of London, Saudi Arabia, and India as a swing state control economic movement, payments, currency trades, loans, etc. and use these as tools to reward or punish adversaries. Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Libya, Nicaragua, Cuba, and others are the current victims of these actions. The Western/non-Western balance of currencies used in World trade favors the West about 60%/40% and the 40% is growing. I think there is a strong Western fear that at 50%/50% the Western economic dominance fails. Trade wars, tariffs, sanctions, erc. are all weapons in this economic War. The USA is fine as long as it never has to pay its' debt. On the other hand, the debt is in dollars and if the currency is devalued, the debt might be minimized, or not?
/

Russia is wisely buying gold instead of US debt/ dollars: Russia's US dollar reserves have shrunk from $96.1 billion in March to just $14.9 billion in May, according to the Russian Central Bank. Its governor, Elvira Nabiullina, says the decision will help protect the Russian economy and diversify the bank’s reserves. Back in March, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the monopoly of the U.S. dollar “not reliable enough and dangerous for many”. Notably, the Bank of Russia has been buying gold every month since March 2015, overtaking China as the fifth-biggest sovereign holder of gold....Both political and economic reasons prompted the Russian central bank‘s decision.

The dominance of the petrodollar is being challenged. How long can it hold up as the rest of the world grows tired of carrying American debt? Once this scheme fails, Americans will see the value of the dollar plummet and its access to credit extremely reduced. Practically our entire economy is built upon credit. But it's not as simple as calling in our debt because if the US economy crashes, it would cause economic collapse in many other countries which would eventually affect the entire global economy. It's a house of cards.

 

[Jack Hays]

Westphalian:

What Westerners want is almost completely irrelevant. What Western power elites want matters and that is to break Russia (politically, economically and militarily) and to prevent the rise of a coherent and cooperative Eurasian bloc of countries including Russia, China and India. Thus they are encircling Russia, China and courting India in an effort to prevent this. This is nothing new and has been going on since the end of WWII and the dawn of the Cold War.

These Western elites also want Russia out of Crimea, the rest of Ukraine and the Caucuses but that is more a secondary goal because these flash-points are convenient pretexts for the bigger struggle than a goal in and of themselves. Russia under Putin has been repeatedly challenging Western economic, political and military global hegemony and that is intolerable to these power-crashed elites. Russia's leadership in the BRICS movement, in creating and financing alternative financial institutions for global trade and its very successful global propaganda campaigns in the "free" western media are undermining western citizens' political complacency and making it more difficult for our elites to do their own dirty work unnoticed as Putin does his. Don't get me wrong. Putin is a very dangerous man but so are our Western leaders in London, Paris p, Brussels and Washington and a collision seems inevitable. Hopefully such a collision will be limited to economic and political means and will avoid direct military conflict, but I am not hopeful.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

Russia is a declining state whose "challenge" is an illusion. In a "bloc" with China, Russia will become merely Beijing's creature. Russia will need to purchase Western support with better behavior. All that is needed is firmness on the part of the West.

 

[slick]

Nothing alleged about it.....

Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation

U.N. General Assembly declares Crimea secession vote invalid

UN declares Russia's annexation of Crimea illegal

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

I think only the diehards still contemplate Crimea being returned to Ukraine, certainly the Crimeans want no part of rejoining
the kiev government.

In the last legitimate Ukie election 2010 the following Provinces voted accordingly which was a landslide for the Russian leaning candidate:

Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

 

[Evilroddy]

Russia is a declining state whose "challenge" is an illusion. In a "bloc" with China, Russia will become merely Beijing's creature. Russia will need to purchase Western support with better behavior. All that is needed is firmness on the part of the West.

Jack Hays:

Your analysis assumes Russia is in fact a declining power. This may not be true. See the following analysis from the Harvard Kennedy School for just one econometric/political/military assessment which contradicts the assumption. I am not saying you are wrong, as many analyses agree with your point, but many also disagree. The decline is in question and therefore so is any strategy based on the existence of such a decline.

https://russiamatters.org/analysis/measuring-national-power-vladimir-putins-russia-decline

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...easure-national-power/?utm_term=.8b97a54ee241

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Westphalian]

Russia is a declining state whose "challenge" is an illusion. In a "bloc" with China, Russia will become merely Beijing's creature. Russia will need to purchase Western support with better behavior. All that is needed is firmness on the part of the West.

Jack - you're completely mistaken.


You've missed the boat. Russia has given up with the West. It's re-focusing on Asia. Continual attempts to lecture and demonise Russia have had a cumulative toxic effect, and the 2008 crisis fatally tarnished the entire western brand. Sanctions on Russia have weakened the pro western political wing to the point of virtual collapse. It's really hard to advocate liberal western style anything when the West acts so absurdly as it does.

You need to wake up and open your eyes. The West can't even convince its own citizens let alone anybody else. That shining city on a hill Reagan used to talk about is now a cess pool of inequality, dis-content, racial division and mass debt.

 

[Jack Hays]

Jack Hays:

Your analysis assumes Russia is in fact a declining power. This may not be true. See the following analysis from the Harvard Kennedy School for just one econometric/political/military assessment which contradicts the assumption. I am not saying you are wrong, as many analyses agree with your point, but many also disagree. The decline is in question and therefore so is any strategy based on the existence of such a decline.

https://russiamatters.org/analysis/measuring-national-power-vladimir-putins-russia-decline

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...easure-national-power/?utm_term=.8b97a54ee241

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I'm comfortable with the conclusion that Russia is in decline. I think Putin knows it too. That's why he's been so aggressive and taken so many chances. If he had more confidence he would have acted more like Nesselrode.
The US has the immense advantage of an island position. Every threatened continental power will eventually seek us out.

 

[Jack Hays]

Jack - you're completely mistaken.


You've missed the boat. Russia has given up with the West. It's re-focusing on Asia. Continual attempts to lecture and demonise Russia have had a cumulative toxic effect, and the 2008 crisis fatally tarnished the entire western brand. Sanctions on Russia have weakened the pro western political wing to the point of virtual collapse. It's really hard to advocate liberal western style anything when the West acts so absurdly as it does.

You need to wake up and open your eyes. The West can't even convince its own citizens let alone anybody else. That shining city on a hill Reagan used to talk about is now a cess pool of inequality, dis-content, racial division and mass debt.

Bluff and nonsense. I'm not relying on westernizers in Russia; they have always lost. I'm relying on the Russians' understanding of their own interests.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Rogue Valley:

Thank you once again for making this personal rather than debating the issues on their merits.
.
See the following articles which are just two sources out of many that lay out the situation and refute your claim of BSing:

https://jamestown.org/program/chinese-russian-defense-and-security-ties-countering-us-encirclement/

https://carnegieendowment.org/2018/...-between-russia-and-west-in-eurasia-pub-75625

Have a great day.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

No problem Roddy. You always follow the script.

NATO's "encirclement" of Russia's 11 time zones

 

[Rogue Valley]

If everything was sunshine and balloons with the Russian economy, Putin wouldn't even contemplate raising the retirement ages and upping the national VAT tax.

Average life expectancy for a Russian male is 66 years old. Under the new retirement age of 65, roughly half of all Russian male retirees will not live to spend a ruble of retirement money.

Russia raises retirement age to boost state budget

Two-fifths of Russian men 'may not live to see their retirement'

Retirement Reforms Will Make Life Impossible for Millions of Families

 

[Westphalian]

Bluff and nonsense. I'm not relying on westernizers in Russia; they have always lost. I'm relying on the Russians' understanding of their own interests.

What, like the 1990s when Russia based its economic policy on western advisers and it had an indelible impact on Russians.


You know what indelible means.

 

[Rogue Valley]

What, like the 1990s when Russia based its economic policy on western advisers and it had an indelible impact on Russians.

The economic advice didn't include the Aluminum Wars. That's on Yeltsin and the always opportunistic Russian oligarchs.

 

[Jack Hays]

What, like the 1990s when Russia based its economic policy on western advisers and it had an indelible impact on Russians.


You know what indelible means.

That has nothing to do with anything, except perhaps as a propaganda source for Putin's repression. Russians, like all people, are responsible for their own choices.

 

[Westphalian]

That has nothing to do with anything, except perhaps as a propaganda source for Putin's repression. Russians, like all people, are responsible for their own choices.

But it has everything to do with your contention that Russians will naturally and eventually choose Brand America.

That brand is so toxic to Russians it's a little like me surmising that eventually the US will become a peace loving nation following Russian style diplomacy.

In fact, the US is a toxic brand even with its so called allies. The US doesn't have allies - it only has states which can't say 'no' to it.

 

[Chagos]

The take of Russian diplomacy making it a peace loving nation signifies either severe intellectual impairment on anyone posting it, or (more likely from experience so far) blatant lying.

Plenty of Syrians would have a bitter laugh at that one and plenty no longer can.

 

[Westphalian]

Those who are unable to counter the central point, namely the toxicity of the US brand and its deep unpopularity even within so called 'allies', can be relied upon to go off on a pointless tangent attacking the messenger - a persistent, tiresome but futile tactic.

 

[Chagos]

Pointing out lies is never futile. It gives a picture of the worthlessness of posts containing them and, when possible to be done in such continuity as here, the poster(s) as well.

 

[Oceanborn]

It affects parents who had planned to have children in the expectation that soon-to-be retired grandparents could help raise them.

This could have a negative impact on Russia's ability to produce more children since childcare expenses are not covered by the state. Russia is facing a demographic collapse, which is probably what the Elites use to justify increasing the retirement age. There are not enough workers to support the massive influx of retirees.