Las Vegas Demonstrates: You ARE Your Brother's Keeper; Mental Health, Not Guns, Root of Problem

[Fiddytree]

I already explained why now is a bad time.

This is, of course, pure sophistry, because there is no actual interest to tackle gun control ever. Not that I think gun control works or will have the desired effect (I am skeptical at the very least), but honesty would expose this as sheer nonsense and would also highlight the frailty of any other pivot gun rights promoters do in the wake of these attacks.

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[Hawkeye10]

This is, of course, pure sophistry, because there is no actual interest to tackle gun control ever. Not that I think gun control works or will have the desired effect (I am skeptical at the very least), but honesty would expose this as sheer nonsense and would also highlight the frailty of any other pivot gun rights promoters do in the wake of these attacks.

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Desire and ability are two different things, and yes while I dont desire to do much to regulate guns I could be overruled by the majority. But see the majority cant do anything about this governments lack of ability to deal with this problem at this time because it is too broken and too low on credibility, nobody can till we fix Washington.

And first we would need to decide to do it, which we are nowhere nears . .

 

[vegas giants]

I already explained why now is a bad time.

I went thru the thread and can't see where you did.

 

[Lursa]

But even then, our predictive models are completely inconclusive about whether mental illness by itself is a substantial factor, let alone specific medications those individuals may or may not be taking.

Even when we take a specific subgroup of our identified subgroup--school mass shooters, we have very little to work with, including being able to find positive outcomes with interventions for at-risk youth.

These mass shootings often tell us more about out society than they do about the body of persons committing the acts.


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I agree. Psychiatry is not a hard science and wont likely ever be.

Also agree, and usually write, that the true solutions to most of our problems would be addressing socio-economic gaps.

But I also believe in my signature below, in blue.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I went thru the thread and can't see where you did.

OK, I thought I had done it in the threads but now I think I did in the place that is not to be named so I withdraw the statement.

 

[Fiddytree]

I agree. Psychiatry is not a hard science and wont likely ever be.

Also agree, and usually write, that the true solutions to most of our problems would be addressing socio-economic gaps.

But I also believe in my signature below, in blue.

Well, not just psychiatry, but criminology as well. Mass shootings are simply too rare to get a good read on them. Mass shootings would need to be far more common.

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[SheWolf]

No, but I would also be a bad example for you, because I do have mental health issues (at one time or another having qualified for the youth equivalent of SMI).

Though, perhaps this would be a good example, in that I would represent the overwhelming majority of those with mental illness who do no such things. Furthermore, it's typically you "sane" people doing all the killing.

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What is SMI?

 

[Fiddytree]

Serious Mental Illness. It commonly used to be called Chronic Mental Illness. Roughly 4% of U.S. adult population has it. Serious Emotional Disorder (SED) is child/youth counterpart.

Two 1/2 pager from SAMHSA below is useful.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...LCQsQFgg3MAE&usg=AOvVaw2eJFzWdDF9ZmA4IMqk9Kt-

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[Phys251]

“They” can publish all the crap they’d like to sell their books. Mass shooters are mentally ill. Period.

In other words, facts don't matter.

 

[MaggieD]

In other words, facts don't matter.

If the research is showing these people have logical motives, I’ll eat my hat. Mass shooters are nutballs. I don’t care what the research shows. And I doubt concentrating on mass murders would prove me wrong.

 

[FastPace]

This is presuming that this shooter has a mental health problem. The slightly disappointing is that that is what police are going with, despite no prior diagnosis or evidence aside from aloofness. It truly has become the garbage dumpster explanation for criminality or evil in this country. In the absence of any other evidence, the easiest, politically guilt-free route is mental illness.

While it is still incredibly possible that Paddock had an undiagnosed SMI, we have to accept that the police are really struggling to figure this one out.

I understand working with an idea. But if the cops just end up writing this off as "mental illness" (whatever that means) without sufficient evidence to end there, then my respect for the police investigation will plummet. I think I've been very fair with the cops thus far on the Las Vegas shooting. But any real investigators should not have closed minds or simply resign themselves to an easy explanation to close the case and satisfy a public who want an echo chamber reaffirming their hollowed faith.

No, I'm not saying I want the investigators to come up with a story I want to hear, or affirm my beliefs. What I am suggesting is I'm deeply curious what motivated him. Well... to an extent I am.

I already think you don't have to be too bright to become a cop. And I already think a lot of pretty dumb Americans get promoted to pretty high levels. Don't start confirming I'm right. Rather, prove me wrong.




To the OP: the guy was a former Federal agent. They've already spoken with people that knew him, so, I have no idea what you mean "no one knew him." The cat probably knew more people than me. Certainly he was more active with people than I am. By all accounts so far, as least from what I have heard or read, he was a pretty "good guy." You know... like the serial killers that sucker so many of you Americans into their cars because you all don't think a killer can lurk behind a nice guy and his smile.

 

[Phys251]

If the research is showing these people have logical motives, I’ll eat my hat. Mass shooters are nutballs. I don’t care what the research shows. And I doubt concentrating on mass murders would prove me wrong.

So you know more than research scientists. Keep on firing blanks, Maggie. :roll:

 

[FastPace]

Full article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-employee-las-vegas-shooter-202927982.html

n a Monday appearance on Good Morning America, 54-year-old Lisa Crawford, who managed a Dallas apartment Paddock owned between 2006 and 2012, opened up about how her interactions with the gunman gave her no indication of what he was apparently capable of doing.

"He actually cared about everybody," Crawford said. "He tried to make people happy, he tried to make people care and I don't know what happened to him."

So, he knew people, and he was loving guy that apparently interacted with others: he attempted to get other people to care and also to make them happy. He interacted with others it can only follow.

 

[MaggieD]

So you know more than research scientists. Keep on firing blanks, Maggie. :roll:

Ever do your own homework on serial killers? If you had, you would know that the majority of them were either on or prescribed psychotropics. Even sans that, if you think the Las Vegas shooter was sane? You are sadly naive.

 

[Phys251]

Ever do your own homework on serial killers? If you had, you would know that the majority of them were either on or prescribed psychotropics. Even sans that, if you think the Las Vegas shooter was sane? You are sadly naive.

Maggie, I respect your right to your opinion, but I am going to more highly trust the judgment of research scientists any day of the week. :shrug:

 

[JBG]

I understand working with an idea. But if the cops just end up writing this off as "mental illness" (whatever that means) without sufficient evidence to end there, then my respect for the police investigation will plummet. I think I've been very fair with the cops thus far on the Las Vegas shooting. But any real investigators should not have closed minds or simply resign themselves to an easy explanation to close the case and satisfy a public who want an echo chamber reaffirming their hollowed faith.

No, I'm not saying I want the investigators to come up with a story I want to hear, or affirm my beliefs. What I am suggesting is I'm deeply curious what motivated him. Well... to an extent I am.

I suspect that the answer in this case relates to Islamist activity. The Philippines are one among many hotbeds of such activity. Bob Nichols of Oklahoma City infamy was trained there. But I don't think that's what anyone wants to find. The "community" issue there is that people should know and take action when someone is radicalizing since, in plain English, they're "going crazy."

To the OP: the guy was a former Federal agent. They've already spoken with people that knew him, so, I have no idea what you mean "no one knew him." The cat probably knew more people than me. Certainly he was more active with people than I am. By all accounts so far, as least from what I have heard or read, he was a pretty "good guy." You know... like the serial killers that sucker so many of you Americans into their cars because you all don't think a killer can lurk behind a nice guy and his smile.

Most people give off warnings of a change before this kind of thing happened. The massacre was apparently long in the making.

 

[jaeger19]

You say this and yet you identify as a liberal. Cute.

Now let's destroy once and for all the myth that mental health is a significant risk factor for becoming a mass shooter.

https://gumc.georgetown.edu/news/Debunking-Myths-about-Gun-Violence-and-Mental-Health
https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2014/06/28/the-myth-of-mental-illness-and-gun-violence/ <- Forbes is a conservative magazine, BTW.

Actually.. I would suggest that you read the entire article.

Without realizing it.. its clear the author actually ends up supporting the idea that mental health is the issue and not guns.

but whats missed here is a salient point that simply having a mental health diagnosis does not mean that you are violent or prone to be violent.

 

[jaeger19]

Maggie, I respect your right to your opinion, but I am going to more highly trust the judgment of research scientists any day of the week. :shrug:

the problem is.. you don't appear to understand what the research scientists are actually saying.