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Many folks have a tendency to view the divide between adult and minor in a very sharply defined manner... anyone under 18 is referred to as a "child" (actually some stats even include persons up to 25 as "children", incredibly) and 18 and over is "adult". Under 18 is assumed to be irresponsible, far less accountable, and forbidden most adult activity, while 18 and up is, in many ways, treated as fully accountable and so on.
I'm talking about the full spectrum of issues here: sex/consent, ability to legally contract, vote, buy a gun, live independently, self-determination, criminal accountability (juvie justice vs adult court/prison), driving, getting married, etc.
Many seem to want to view it as an all-or-nothing proposition, and laws vary by state.
The thing is, as any parent can tell you, maturity and responsibility are a process with stages.
Huge diff between 3 and 6yo.
Huge diff between 6 and 10.
Huge diff between 11 and 14.
Major changes between 14 and 16.
Pretty big changes in maturity between 16 and 18.
And significant changes in maturity between 18 and 22, as the impulse filter in the brain fully develops.
(While we're here, there's a large diff between 22 and 35, as well, but that's really beyond the scope of this thread.)
The process varies from individual to individual. Some people are more responsible and mature at 12 than most are at 20. Others are still goofball spasmotrons at 22.
Unfortunately an individualized "maturity and responsibility test" isn't practical in most cases... implementing such for all youth society-wide would be a massive undertaking, assuming you could come up with an accurate test in the first place.
So we're left with averages.
Well, on average maturation is a process with stages. A six year old has no business driving a car, we can all agree. A 16yo might be ok, but it is debated.
Trying a 9yo as an adult is something most would oppose, as a 9yo lacks the cognitive ability to appreciate the significance, implications and consequences of many actions. However trying a 14-16yo as an adult is done but often controversial.
I think part of the problem is that many call anyone under 18 a "child". Some extend that word to 18-22yo's.
A 16yo is not a "child" in the same sense that an 8yo is a "child".
Ok, a 16yo is not, on average, ready to take full control of their life and full responsibility for themselves, and their readiness to take on responsibilities that require impulse control or fine judgement under stress is typically iffy. Still, they're not a "child" in same sense as an 8yo.
I prefer the to call 13-17yo's youths, juveniles or "teens", rather than "children", due to that distinction.
For example: an 8yo unquestionably (well to almost all of us) could not give informed consent for sex. A 16yo might, even if it is controversial. Actually 16 is the age of consent in all of Canada and nearly half of US states.... but some states allow marriage under certain circumstances as young as 14.
Some states set it at 17 or 18. Worldwide it varies a great deal, but is usually between 14 and 18... because there's a lot of difference between a pre-pubescent child and a post-p. adolescent. Not saying necessarily that all post-pubescent youths can give informed consent, but that there is a major difference here.
Historically, in England under Henry VIII you were an adult at age 12 for purposes of criminal prosecution, though most people were under the control of their parents or craft-master or other mentor for several more years. Historically, marriage between 14-17yo was common.
I'm not saying these were good things, just pointing out that 18 is a somewhat arbitrary age. After all, a person is not REALLY completely irresponsible at 17 years 11 months and 29 days, then suddenly the next day they are completely responsible and accountable... legally perhaps but not in reality.
This is one reason I think statutory rape charges for having "consensual" sex with a 9yo is entirely reasonable and justified... but when the subject is 14-16, perhaps not so much, at least not "rape". Especially not if the "perp" is only 2-3 years older. And what if they're both "underage"? To be fair and reasonable you'd have to either charge both or neither.
In my home state much of these issues are resolved through a gradual accumulation of legal rights/privileges. At 16 you can drive and consent to sex; at 18 you can vote, join the military, marry, buy a long gun, sign a contract. Due to Federal fund pressure you can't buy a pistol until 21, which is also when you can get a carry permit.
I've never heard of a 10yo being tried as an adult in my state tmk, but plenty of 15-16yo's are if they commit adult crimes.
Discussion? Let's try not to get overly hung up on a single issue please (like consent) because I'm talking about ALL the adult rights/privileges/responsibilities and not just one.
I'm talking about the full spectrum of issues here: sex/consent, ability to legally contract, vote, buy a gun, live independently, self-determination, criminal accountability (juvie justice vs adult court/prison), driving, getting married, etc.
Many seem to want to view it as an all-or-nothing proposition, and laws vary by state.
The thing is, as any parent can tell you, maturity and responsibility are a process with stages.
Huge diff between 3 and 6yo.
Huge diff between 6 and 10.
Huge diff between 11 and 14.
Major changes between 14 and 16.
Pretty big changes in maturity between 16 and 18.
And significant changes in maturity between 18 and 22, as the impulse filter in the brain fully develops.
(While we're here, there's a large diff between 22 and 35, as well, but that's really beyond the scope of this thread.)
The process varies from individual to individual. Some people are more responsible and mature at 12 than most are at 20. Others are still goofball spasmotrons at 22.
Unfortunately an individualized "maturity and responsibility test" isn't practical in most cases... implementing such for all youth society-wide would be a massive undertaking, assuming you could come up with an accurate test in the first place.
So we're left with averages.
Well, on average maturation is a process with stages. A six year old has no business driving a car, we can all agree. A 16yo might be ok, but it is debated.
Trying a 9yo as an adult is something most would oppose, as a 9yo lacks the cognitive ability to appreciate the significance, implications and consequences of many actions. However trying a 14-16yo as an adult is done but often controversial.
I think part of the problem is that many call anyone under 18 a "child". Some extend that word to 18-22yo's.
A 16yo is not a "child" in the same sense that an 8yo is a "child".
Ok, a 16yo is not, on average, ready to take full control of their life and full responsibility for themselves, and their readiness to take on responsibilities that require impulse control or fine judgement under stress is typically iffy. Still, they're not a "child" in same sense as an 8yo.
I prefer the to call 13-17yo's youths, juveniles or "teens", rather than "children", due to that distinction.
For example: an 8yo unquestionably (well to almost all of us) could not give informed consent for sex. A 16yo might, even if it is controversial. Actually 16 is the age of consent in all of Canada and nearly half of US states.... but some states allow marriage under certain circumstances as young as 14.
Some states set it at 17 or 18. Worldwide it varies a great deal, but is usually between 14 and 18... because there's a lot of difference between a pre-pubescent child and a post-p. adolescent. Not saying necessarily that all post-pubescent youths can give informed consent, but that there is a major difference here.
Historically, in England under Henry VIII you were an adult at age 12 for purposes of criminal prosecution, though most people were under the control of their parents or craft-master or other mentor for several more years. Historically, marriage between 14-17yo was common.
I'm not saying these were good things, just pointing out that 18 is a somewhat arbitrary age. After all, a person is not REALLY completely irresponsible at 17 years 11 months and 29 days, then suddenly the next day they are completely responsible and accountable... legally perhaps but not in reality.
This is one reason I think statutory rape charges for having "consensual" sex with a 9yo is entirely reasonable and justified... but when the subject is 14-16, perhaps not so much, at least not "rape". Especially not if the "perp" is only 2-3 years older. And what if they're both "underage"? To be fair and reasonable you'd have to either charge both or neither.
In my home state much of these issues are resolved through a gradual accumulation of legal rights/privileges. At 16 you can drive and consent to sex; at 18 you can vote, join the military, marry, buy a long gun, sign a contract. Due to Federal fund pressure you can't buy a pistol until 21, which is also when you can get a carry permit.
I've never heard of a 10yo being tried as an adult in my state tmk, but plenty of 15-16yo's are if they commit adult crimes.
Discussion? Let's try not to get overly hung up on a single issue please (like consent) because I'm talking about ALL the adult rights/privileges/responsibilities and not just one.