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Judge orders Trump Accounts to hand over info to House!

roughdraft274 said:
Of course they can appeal. But this isn't a criminal case. These are 2 separate things. But if you want to compare them, if you are given the death penalty, you go to jail while you appeal. You don't get to stay free while you appeal. So if he wants to appeal, he can. But the records must be handed over unless a higher court issues something saying to wait for an appeal. Cases like this happen every day, and stuff is forced to be turned over all the time without the supreme court ruling on it. If every single decision on a warrant or a subpoena had to be ruled on by the SC, we'd never get anywhere.

Seriously. If the police get a warrant to search my house, do you think I'd have the ability to fight them all the way to the SC before they bust my door down and do the search?
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This is a great analysis! :thumbs:
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If feel that Trump's cult has revealed something about human nature and politics that I find very depressing.

If people like a politician enough then all rationality goes out the window. They will support almost anything that politician does.
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Funny...we thought the same thing with Democrats and Obama.
 
ocean515 said:
People shouldn't forget that these feelings the Dems in the House have are based on the words of a convicted liar, and information that has come from discredited sources.
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Where does it say that Congress can't believe the words of a convicted liar? Lots of men are in prison based on the testimony of convicted liars.

Let's not forget that Trump is a proven liar.
 
Ya, well the Mueller fiasco didn't work, so we get this pile of horse manure.
God help the next Dem president, if there ever is one.
 
Chomsky said:
That's a good analysis.

To be honest, I felt the prior case-law and precedent was pretty clear, as seen today. But you never know what can happen in any given courtroom ...
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Very true. Judges are just people at the end of the day. But I think you'd have to look long and hard to find one that is willing to go against such a large stash of existing rulings and president as there is in this case. I mean, they argued in court that congress shouldn't have been able to investigate watergate! If we could have gathered every US judge in a room and let them listen to that argument we would have all felt a slight shift on the earths axis from the collective eye rolls at that exact moment.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Where does it say that Congress can't believe the words of a convicted liar? Lots of men are in prison based on the testimony of convicted liars.
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True. And lot's of those men (and women, I would guess) are granted appeals based on that fact.
 
ocean515 said:
I think you are confused on how the law works for citizens of the United States.
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Exactly!

It the courts for the past hundred years who are wrong!



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ocean515 said:
I would tend to agree. At least at this point. It remains to be seen what happens next.

Mazar left an interesting "door" in the ruling:

Judge upholds Dem subpoena for Trump financial records - POLITICO


“...it is not the court’s role to decipher whether Congress’s true purpose in pursuing an investigation is to aid legislation or something more sinister such as exacting political retribution,” Mehta wrote.​


The operative is: "It is not the court's role to decipher...."


Maybe not Mazar's court, but another court could.
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Interesting point. Though Judge Mehta's use of "the court" is obviously collective, it is always possible a higher court can over-rule.

But either way, I don't see Trump prevailing in the majority of these cases. There's too much case-law & precedence against him.
 
Barnacle said:
Back again with your misleading info?!? :lol:

Ford will lay off up to 800 salaried employees (management) in North America.
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You're back again with your half-information? Do you only read the first sentence of any article or do your eyes only select what your brain wishes to process? :lol:

Ford to lay off 7,000 white collar workers

https://www.breitbart.com/news/ford-to-lay-off-7000-white-collar-workers/

May 20 (UPI) — Ford Motor Co. said Monday it is planning to layoff white collar 7,000 workers, with 800 coming this summer — most in the Detroit area.

The automaker said the layoffs will start with 500 salaried workers leaving involuntarily this week and another 300 in June. The majority of the affected workers will be notified Tuesday.

“Ford is a family company and saying goodbye to colleagues is difficult and emotional,” Ford CEO James Hackett said in a email Monday. “We have moved away from past practices in some regions where team members who were separate had to leave immediately with their belongings, instead giving people the choice to stay a few days to wrap up and say goodbye.”

The cuts are part of a massive reorganization that will ultimately result in 7,000 voluntary and involuntary separations worldwide through August. The goal is to remove layers of management, give managers more authority and decide which skills are valuable for the future. The move, it said, will save Ford about $600 million a year.

Ford Motor Co. announces thousands of workers to be laid off
Ford Motor Co. announces thousands of workers to be laid off

It’s the first of a wave of Ford layoffs in the U.S. that is expected to hit 800 by the end of June and 7,000 worldwide by the end of August.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If feel that Trump's cult has revealed something about human nature and politics that I find very depressing.

If people like a politician enough then all rationality goes out the window. They will support almost anything that politician does.

We're one charismatic leader away from a dictatorship.
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i didn't think that it could happen here, but i'm no longer so sure. we live in interesting times, and you know what they say about that situation.
 
Roadvirus said:
Funny...we thought the same thing with Democrats and Obama.
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Obama never lied like Trump. And please don't give me broken campaign promises as lies. All politicians promise things that they don't deliver.

Is China paying tariffs? Was Trump's father born in Germany? Is U.S. Steel opening six new plants?

I can go on and on with Trump's blatant dishonesty. Trump asking McGhan to lie for him.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I don't understand people like you. What's the big deal here? He's president. He shouldn't have financial secrets. Why are you supporting his right to conceal the truth from the American people? It makes no sense.

He's not some ordinary citizen. Don't we have a right to know about financial involvements our leaders have that may be conflicts of interest?
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You've described the over-arching concept here. It seems Trump and his supporters seem to be saying is,

"We can do what ever we want, as long as it's not (too?) illegal!".

Which of course is a bull**** bar to hide behind ...
 
Helix said:
i didn't think that it could happen here, but i'm no longer so sure. we live in interesting times, and you know what they say about that situation.
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It almost did with FDR. As you see with Trump, if you're popular enough, other politicians will be afraid to oppose you for fear of not being reelected. On paper, you have a democracy but the popularity of the president renders the democracy meaningless. You have a king.
 
Chomsky said:
Interesting point. Though Judge Mehta's use of "the court" is obviously collective, it is always possible a higher court can over-rule.

But either way, I don't see Trump prevailing in the majority of these cases. There's too much case-law & precedence against him.
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I tend to agree with you. However, the evidence is very strong this effort is purely partisan, which Judge Mehta did touch on in the ruling.


It raises interesting questions of Citizens rights vs. Government overreach based on emotion, ideological differences, and perhaps politically motivated retribution.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Yeah, China is paying the tariffs, Trump's father was born in Germany and U.S. Steel is opening six new plants.

Republicans are just a joke now.
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"Mexico is paying for the wall", my friend. Can't forget that duesy ...
 
HumblePi said:
voluntary and involuntary separations
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I hate when corporations use these absurd euphemisms. "separations"

Have the courage to say what you mean plainly.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Courts have ruled on this numerous times since 1880 with always the same conclusion.

Congress has a Constitutionals right and duty to perform government oversite and the courts don't get involved in proving motive as long as a viable purpose exists, as it does here.

It's not a difficult case. It has been adjudicated again and again with always the same conclusion. The judge here is so certain of this that a stay request was denied.

It also hurt Trumps case tremendously by him saying the White House will not cooperate with ANY Congressional subpoena's. A blanket denial without a provided rationale never sits well with most federal judges.
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:thumbs:

And the affect on the citizenry is amazing! I'm blown away, that he keeps from getting impeached. It just blows my mind, that any citizen would find this acceptable.
 
Chomsky said:
"Mexico is paying for the wall", my friend. Can't forget that duesy ...
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I'll categorize that as a broken campaign promise.

All politicians make promises they can't keep. Very few politicians are ever caught outright lying about facts the way Trump does.
 
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