Joe Biden Is the Front-Runner — Over Democrats, and Donald Trump

[slick]

That Ukraine story that's been in the news is the tip of an ugly iceberg.

Yeah. I'm curious to see how he addresses the policies coming out of the other candidates while still surviving the primaries.

Joe's Ukraine ordeal with his son Hunter will be getting indictments soon.

What did Joe Biden know and when did he know it when he got a Ukraine prosecutor fired during an investigation
of the company that employed his son Hunter Biden? Biden threatened to bankrupt Ukraine if the guy investigating the
energy company that his kid was made board member of was not fired. Joe is up to his eyeballs in this.

Biden's pal in Ukraine just lost his Presidency to a comedian. Now Biden doesnt have cover for his son's
Ukraine involvement with a company there with big $$$.

 

[Perotista]

You should start your blog on here again Pero, if you have time. I always learned a great deal from reading your thoughts.

That's an idea. But I don't think any changes will ever be done. Actually the decrease in numbers, the percentage the two major parties make up out of the total electorate actually in my opinion has increased their power. I mean now the hard left and hard right has a freer hand in determining whom their nominees/candidates will be. With the more moderate influences gone, the hard core rule the roost. Neither party wants their moderates back.

 

[vesper]

Joe's Ukraine ordeal with his son Hunter will be getting indictments soon.

What did Joe Biden know and when did he know it when he got a Ukraine prosecutor fired during an investigation
of the company that employed his son Hunter Biden? Biden threatened to bankrupt Ukraine if the guy investigating the
energy company that his kid was made board member of was not fired. Joe is up to his eyeballs in this.

Biden's pal in Ukraine just lost his Presidency to a comedian. Now Biden doesnt have cover for his son's
Ukraine involvement with a company there with big $$$.

The first time I read anything about it was at the Hill. And haven't seen any talking heads in the MSM bring it up either.

I just heard a Democrat say Biden's biggest problem is Biden. There's certainly a group in the Democrat party who are not thrilled with his announcement today and I look to see the knives come out for him within his own party.





For a walk down memory lane, "Biden runs for president...….Again."

 

[jaeger19]

The Democrats has been moving steadily left since Bill Clinton. Bill was a centralist, perhaps even in the mode of the old fashion conservative Democrat to a certain extent. Remember Bill founded the DLC, a conservative Democratic group. I don't see the Democratic Party all of a sudden shifting their movement left to a more moderate view. Most Americans are in-between the GOP rightist and Democratic leftist points of view or political ideology. This is why we seen independents grow from 30% in 2006 up to 42% today as the two major parties continue to shrink.


No, I don't see the democrats going with a more moderate candidate. The more moderate faction of their party don't get out and vote in the democratic primaries in the numbers that the more energized and enthusiastic leftist do. Here, Gallup proves more Democrats want their party to move to a more moderate position than left.

Gallup poll: Majority of Democrats want more moderate party

Gallup poll: Majority of Democrats want more moderate party | MinnPost

I think the moderates within the democratic party feel estranged with their party as almost all the leaders are far leftist. Then too it is the moderates who recently left the Democratic Party leaving the hard core leftist in charge. Go back to 2008, the year Obama was elected, 36% of the electorates identified themselves as Democrats, 32% as independents. Today it's 30% democratic, 42% independent. Republicans make up 26% of the electorate today.

Do you think though that the reason the democrats have moved more left is in response to the win by Trump? To me.. it appears that the move left has been in response to the belief that a moderate democrat.. can't and won't win.

Trump kind of upset the political apple cart. Conventional wisdom was that in the primary.. you pandered to the base, and then gradually got more moderate as you approached the general election. You ran on the right or left.. and then you governed in the middle.


Trump upset that wisdom. He started as a DEMOCRAT... then went wild right... swinging and punching and doubling down on being less presidential, less inclusive, less moderate and more extreme.. and he won. And his base loved him even more.


I get the feeling the democrat base.. the progressives.. the ones really active in the party.. feel that's its time they were as vitriolic, as in your face, as unrepentant immoderate as trump? And why not? He won.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Do you think though that the reason the democrats have moved more left is in response to the win by Trump? To me.. it appears that the move left has been in response to the belief that a moderate democrat.. can't and won't win.

Trump kind of upset the political apple cart. Conventional wisdom was that in the primary.. you pandered to the base, and then gradually got more moderate as you approached the general election. You ran on the right or left.. and then you governed in the middle.


Trump upset that wisdom. He started as a DEMOCRAT... then went wild right... swinging and punching and doubling down on being less presidential, less inclusive, less moderate and more extreme.. and he won. And his base loved him even more.


I get the feeling the democrat base.. the progressives.. the ones really active in the party.. feel that's its time they were as vitriolic, as in your face, as unrepentant immoderate as trump? And why not? He won.

Or maybe.... there is no longer a middle ground in a battle of political ideologies competing over the fate of the country.

 

[jaeger19]

That's an idea. But I don't think any changes will ever be done. Actually the decrease in numbers, the percentage the two major parties make up out of the total electorate actually in my opinion has increased their power. I mean now the hard left and hard right has a freer hand in determining whom their nominees/candidates will be. With the more moderate influences gone, the hard core rule the roost. Neither party wants their moderates back.

I find that interesting that you think the parties don't want their moderates back... and why? I agree with you.. but the wisdom would be that more in the party would make the party stronger. But... I wonder if its because of the citizen united decision and the flood of PAC money that followed it. Now the parties don't need moderates.

They have all the money they need from a few very large donors.. and they can buy the staffers.. and perhaps there is foreign money flowing in as well.. hidden in those pacs.. so now there is foreign players that are interested in a divided US.

 

[jaeger19]

Or maybe.... there is no longer a middle ground in a battle of political ideologies competing over the fate of the country.

Oh there is certainly a middle ground. The vast majority of americans are in the middle. At least when you confront them with real issues. Healthcare, the economy, immigration.

Trump who is the least likely to moderate.. has had to moderate when it comes to building the wall, to separating kids from parents.. from Obamacare.healthcare.. etc.

There is a middle ground.. because that's where the actual logic and solutions lie.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Oh there is certainly a middle ground. The vast majority of americans are in the middle. At least when you confront them with real issues. Healthcare, the economy, immigration.

Trump who is the least likely to moderate.. has had to moderate when it comes to building the wall, to separating kids from parents.. from Obamacare.healthcare.. etc.

There is a middle ground.. because that's where the actual logic and solutions lie.

The battle is not over policy.

What the political ideologies are currently battling over is the guiding principles that our country is supposed to represent.

 

[Roadvirus]

"As former Vice President Joe Biden prepares to enter the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, he’s doing so as the front-runner, polling ahead of both fellow Democrats and President Donald Trump.

A new Morning Consult/Politico poll conducted April 19-21 among 1,992 registered voters found Biden leading the president by 8 percentage points in a hypothetical matchup, 42 percent to 34 percent. Biden has a significant edge over Trump among women (17 points), millennials (22 points) and independents (10 points).

The national, online survey has a 2-point margin of error."​

​

Joe Biden Is the Front-Runner -- Over Democrats, and Donald Trump

He's ahead of Trump by 8 points...
And there's a year until the election :roll:

 

[Perotista]

Do you think though that the reason the democrats have moved more left is in response to the win by Trump? To me.. it appears that the move left has been in response to the belief that a moderate democrat.. can't and won't win.

Trump kind of upset the political apple cart. Conventional wisdom was that in the primary.. you pandered to the base, and then gradually got more moderate as you approached the general election. You ran on the right or left.. and then you governed in the middle.


Trump upset that wisdom. He started as a DEMOCRAT... then went wild right... swinging and punching and doubling down on being less presidential, less inclusive, less moderate and more extreme.. and he won. And his base loved him even more.


I get the feeling the democrat base.. the progressives.. the ones really active in the party.. feel that's its time they were as vitriolic, as in your face, as unrepentant immoderate as trump? And why not? He won.

I think the move left started long before Trump. It really became noticeable after Bill Clinton. But I would say it started way before him. I think it started during Vietnam. When I grew up, born right after WWII, both parties had their liberal and conservative wings. The Democrats had the conservative solid south, the Republicans the liberal northeast, the old Rockefeller Republicans. It's probably hard to imagine today when the northeast was Republican and the south Democratic. But that was the way it was.

By Reagan, I would say the GOP had shed its liberal wing and the democrats were just finishing shedding its conservative wing. Reagan was the last Republican to win New York and his former VP, G.H.W. Bush was the last Republican to win California. Bill Clinton was the last Democrat to win in the south, he took Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky in 1992 and those same states with the exception of Georgia in 1996.

What is happening now are both parties are in the process of shedding their moderates. This movement to the left by the Democrats and to the right by the GOP has been going on for quite a long time. It might have become more pronounced under Trump, but it is the road the Democrats have been on since at least Vietnam.

 

[Perotista]

I find that interesting that you think the parties don't want their moderates back... and why? I agree with you.. but the wisdom would be that more in the party would make the party stronger. But... I wonder if its because of the citizen united decision and the flood of PAC money that followed it. Now the parties don't need moderates.

They have all the money they need from a few very large donors.. and they can buy the staffers.. and perhaps there is foreign money flowing in as well.. hidden in those pacs.. so now there is foreign players that are interested in a divided US.

Money isn't everything. Hillary Clinton raised and spent almost twice as much money as Trump did in 2016. 1.191 billion for Hillary to 646.8 million for Trump.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I remember when the Democratic Party was known as the big tent party. They included everyone, conservatives, moderates, liberals, blue collar workers, no litmus tests. That big tent party controlled the House of Representatives for 58 out of 62 years from 1933-1994 to include 40 straight years. That big tent party as had control of the senate for 52 out of those 62 years. It would have been 58 out of 62 if not for the popularity of Reagan in which the GOP controlled the senate for the first six of his years as president.

It took someone like Eisenhower to break a 20 year hold on the presidency. Everyone liked IKE. It took a very disorganized Democratic Party due to the Chicago riots during their convention for Nixon to squeak through in 68. Without IKE, the big tent Democratic Party might have had the presidency also from 1933-1980.

Look at the graph where the big tent Democratic Party's percentage of the electorate was between 40-51% beginning with FDR and ending with Reagan.

Trends in Party Identification, 1939-2014 | Pew Research Center

The graph says it all. Start shedding different wings and creating litmus tests, your party strength goes south. I've always said that if either one of our two major parties would start embracing moderates again, move from the fringes of the left or right, the party that moderates would be the party in charge for the next 40 years. It ain't gonna happen.

 

[noonereal]

And Chris Christie says Biden can pull some working class voters from Trump to himself.
​

And these are the votes that will decide the election.

PA, MI and Wisconsin need to go Dem to get the orange animal out of the white house and into a jail cell.​

 

[noonereal]

Chris Christie still matters after his scandals?

He is a sharp guy. He knows what he speaks of.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As it stands now, individual federal income tax revenue would have to be increased by about 40% just to eliminate the current federal "budget" deficit.

That doesn't even make any sense.
What, try to eliminate it in one night?

Why? Because Trump blew it up in one day?

 

[noonereal]

Biden is (said to be) the front-runner simply based on name recognition (Obama 3.0?) and the fact that he has not (yet) proposed going much further left by adding multiple new and costly social programs based on more income redistribution. As it stands now, individual federal income tax revenue would have to be increased by about 40% just to eliminate the current federal "budget" deficit.

Biden should have been President not Obie.

He would have left office far more accomplished than the "lost child" Obie did.

 

[ttwtt78640]

1) That doesn't even make any sense.
2) What, try to eliminate it in one night?

3) Why? 4) Because Trump blew it up in one day?

1) Math makes perfect sense.

2) Don't worry, congress has no intention of raising taxes enough to cover their spending.

3) Why what?

4) Nope, Trump merely added to it by letting congress have their way (i.e he signed the "budget" bills).

 

[ttwtt78640]

Biden should have been President not Obie.

He would have left office far more accomplished than the "lost child" Obie did.

Hmm...

 

[GDViking]

And these are the votes that will decide the election.

PA, MI and Wisconsin need to go Dem to get the orange animal out of the white house and into a jail cell.

I believe Wisconsin will do our part...

 

[pilot16]

I find that interesting that you think the parties don't want their moderates back... and why? I agree with you.. but the wisdom would be that more in the party would make the party stronger. But... I wonder if its because of the citizen united decision and the flood of PAC money that followed it. Now the parties don't need moderates.

They have all the money they need from a few very large donors.. and they can buy the staffers.. and perhaps there is foreign money flowing in as well.. hidden in those pacs.. so now there is foreign players that are interested in a divided US.

For me, I think people think moderates or indies are fence sitters who will negotiate and compromise. Neither side really wants that anymore. Which is ironically why more people are moving away from the two parties. I dont think decades ago there was this issue, people belonged to one or the other party but understood there had to be give and take. Now its gotten so bad, I hear people say "I wont date them because they are a republican or vice versa." Parents cant talk politics with their kids even. Thats really horrible. Some of my fondest memories coming of age was talking "adult" politics with my mom. She had very different views but when we talked she got to understand and so did I. We got to see why one felt the way they did and surprisingly it did change our opinions once in a while. Today we cant have that. You must fit in the certain box and agree 100% or forget it. Sad actually.