Jehovah's pedofiles

[Tim the plumber]

Protests highlight abuse and cover-ups among Jehovah’s Witnesses

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/...-abuse-and-cover-ups-among-jehovahs-witnesses

Protesters have gathered in London to highlight "serious and persistent" child sexual abuse within global Jehovah's Witnesses communities and JW leaders' failure to report it to the police.

Nice to know it is not just the Catholics.

 

[tosca1]

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/...-abuse-and-cover-ups-among-jehovahs-witnesses



Nice to know it is not just the Catholics.

And?

A pervert is a pervert. Perverts will naturally work in places where it'll be easy to prey on their victims.
We see tons of coaches who are perverts - why? Because being a coach not only gives them access to their victims, but they can also use their authority over their victims!

What is better than having that perception of "authority" because they see you as a "man of God?"
That kind of authority must trump coaches and teachers and daycare workers and therapists!


This is not about religion. It's about having access to victims by predators.
The Church is victimized too, you know.



If that isn't clear enough - answer this: Do you think a pedophile will want to work in a retirement home?

 

[tosca1]

Is it a surprise why there are so many pedophiles and perverts in churches? No.
They're drawn to churches as a good "hunting" and 'grooming" ground......the same way that coaches are
drawn to sports!



I think, anyone who protect perverts and tries to do some cover-up - have some latent perversity in them, too. Or....are, involved in some kind of corruption.



The cover-ups in Catholic Church isn't new! There was an investigative report decades ago revealing that there's a gay cabal in the catholic church! I can't remember the site for it but, I found this on a quick search:

The Catholic Church's Secret Gay Cabal

The Catholic Church's Secret Gay Cabal




Like I said, this has nothing to do with faith or religion. The church becomes a victim too.



Lol. I'm waiting for the news that a pedophile got busted in a retirement home! Wouldn't that beat all?

 

[tosca1]

I think, it's better that everything got exposed now, so churches (of every denomination) can do a real good
spring-cleaning. They've got to be tough, and remove all those who had any part in this, no matter how minimal.....
......or, high-ranking.

You gotta boot out the foxes in the hen house - including their cubs.

 

[spud_meister]

Like I said, this has nothing to do with faith or religion. The church becomes a victim too.

No, when the church hierarchy plays an active part in shielding offenders from justice, they stop being victims and become accomplices. The recent Royal Commission in Australia found 1000 sexual abusers of almost 2000 victims, none of whom were reported to the police by the JW church.

 

[Jetboogieman]

The Church is victimized too,

No Tosca, just no.

The fact of the matter is, that when it comes to say, the Catholic Church as an institution, we now know about the cover-ups, we now know about the payoffs and the settlements, we now know about priests shuffled around that continued to prey on children despite the clear knowledge of those higher up in the church.

No Tosca, not only was the Catholic Church as an Institution not a victim, it was complicit in the abuse of children to the highest levels of the Vatican and in many cases enabled the abuse of Children.

I'd have to read more into the Jehovah Case we have before us, to see its true extent but it seems they've taken a leaf out of the Catholic Churchs book in this case.

But don't you, for a second betray the children again by claiming that the Church as an institution was some kind of victim because with all the evidence acquired over decades prior... The truth is the absolute, resolute polar opposite.

 

[tosca1]

No, when the church hierarchy plays an active part in shielding offenders from justice, they stop being victims and become accomplices. The recent Royal Commission in Australia found 1000 sexual abusers of almost 2000 victims, none of whom were reported to the police by the JW church.

You're missing the point!
The heirarchy is not "the church!" The building is not the church!
The Church is the believers who gather together.

In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination.
According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html


It's still THE CHURCH that becomes victimized!

 

[tosca1]

No Tosca, just no.

The fact of the matter is, that when it comes to say, the Catholic Church as an institution, we now know about the cover-ups, we now know about the payoffs and the settlements, we now know about priests shuffled around that continued to prey on children despite the clear knowledge of those higher up in the church.

No Tosca, not only was the Catholic Church as an Institution not a victim, it was complicit in the abuse of children to the highest levels of the Vatican and in many cases enabled the abuse of Children.

I'd have to read more into the Jehovah Case we have before us, to see its true extent but it seems they've taken a leaf out of the Catholic Churchs book in this case.

But don't you, for a second betray the children again by claiming that the Church as an institution was some kind of victim because with all the evidence acquired over decades prior... The truth is the absolute, resolute polar opposite.

You're missing the point too. Our definition of the "church" isn't the same.
I'm referring to the biblical definition of the church.

The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.”

The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return.

In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of people who claim the name of Christ.

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html



The church victims of the abuse were mostly, if not all, believers. They comprise the Church.
Some believers had lost faith because of all these scandals of abuse. Non-believers and detractors of the Church
(or denomination) use the scandals to denounce the Church itself! Like as if somehow they've proven their
anti-religion stance.

Like I said, this isn't about religion......although religion is used by the perverts to get access to their victims.
There are pedophiles and perverts among protestants too.

 

[nota bene]

The cover-ups in Catholic Church isn't new! There was an investigative report decades ago revealing that there's a gay cabal in the catholic church! I can't remember the site for it...

Just Google "lavender mafia" for more info than you probably ever wanted to know.

 

[Jetboogieman]

There are pedophiles and perverts among protestants too.

I was using the Catholic Church as an example, because it would appear to the most prolific.

You're missing the point too. Our definition of the "church" isn't the same.
I'm referring to the biblical definition of the church.

Your definitions are irrelevant.

We're talking about the Institutional iteration of the church.

The church is the believers who gather together.

And the various Institutions are the physical and organization embodiment of the people who gather together.

Your abstract statement about the church given the context of the OP, is pretty inappropriate actually and is meant to obfuscate.

The only victims that matter in this discussion, are the children victimized.

 

[tosca1]

I was using the Catholic Church as an example, because it would appear to the most prolific.


Your definitions are irrelevant.

Then, we're not on the same page.

The definition is definitely relevant - that's the BIBLICAL definition of a Church.
My definition is relevant to my statement in saying that The Church is a victim, too!


You can go on and talk about the denominations and compare notes. What's the point?
What makes the perverts in those places anymore different than the perverts that work in sports, in classrooms, or daycares, etc... NONE! Perverts will go to places where they can have access to their victims.


Where do you think a pedophile will want to work? A retirement home? :lol: That's my point!

The only victims that matter in this discussion, are the children victimized.

What about their parents? Those who trusted the clergy?
It's close to home. I know someone who was victimized in his teens, and his mother never seemed to have gotten over that. The pastor was also a friend whom they had for supper on a regular basis. She was beleaguered by all the "what ifs...." she could've done to prevent that abuse. She and her husband eventually stopped going to church.

They are also victims. Everyone in the congregation is a victim!

 

[Davey]

I was using the Catholic Church as an example, because it would appear to the most prolific.

The elite, the filthy rich, politicians, those in power, they have abused and used children to their own selfish pleasures just as those you have mentioned.

There's evil out there, and his name is Satan.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Then, we're not on the same page.

The definition is definitely relevant - that's the BIBLICAL definition of a Church.
My definition is relevant to my statement in saying that The Church is a victim, too!

You can go on and talk about the denominations and compare notes. What's the point?
What makes the perverts in those places anymore different than the perverts that work in sports, in classrooms, or daycares, etc... NONE! Perverts will go to places where they can have access to their victims.

Where do you think a pedophile will want to work? A retirement home? :lol: That's my point!

Except that all the Earthly Institutions of the Church claim to be the physical embodiment of your abstract idea, that's the difference.

Your comments are inappropriate, the only ones victimized in this situation, are the children.

 

[tosca1]

Except that all the Earthly Institutions of the Church claim to be the physical embodiment of your abstract idea, that's the difference.

Your comments are inappropriate, the only ones victimized in this situation, are the children.

You're being obtuse. My point is clear.

If you see the children as the only victims here - then, you've got a narrow vision of seeing things.
Like I said, the parents are victims too. (not to mention the whole congregation).
All those whose trust have been betrayed, are victims!

 

[Davey]

And?

A pervert is a pervert. Perverts will naturally work in places where it'll be easy to prey on their victims.
We see tons of coaches who are perverts - why? Because being a coach not only gives them access to their victims, but they can also use their authority over their victims!

What is better than having that perception of "authority" because they see you as a "man of God?"
That kind of authority must trump coaches and teachers and daycare workers and therapists!

Totally agree. Therapist are scum but a man (supposedly a man of God) take's sexual advantage of starry eyed babies, all the while this is what the child is connecting with Jesus, well, Jesus Himself said it best...

Luke 17:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

God is furious at those guys, and they have a special punishment directly from God as his wrath is awaiting them in the afterlife.

 

[Manc Skipper]

You're being obtuse. My point is clear.

If you see the children as the only victims here - then, you've got a narrow vision of seeing things.
Like I said, the parents are victims too. (not to mention the whole congregation).
All those whose trust have been betrayed, are victims!

Not all were abused or raped. Only the children. You are the one seeking to spread, dilute and minimise their suffering at the hands of church leaders,

 

[Davey]

Not all were abused or raped. Only the children. You are the one seeking to spread, dilute and minimise their suffering at the hands of church leaders,

All were terribly affected, the children being the most. The parents are traumatized also for they are the one's who put their babies in the hands of these monsters. Living with that is a heavy cross to bear, not to mention the anger, which leads to depression.

The trust these parents put into these leader's of their Faith, is heart crushing to the umpth degree.

 

[Manc Skipper]

All were terribly affected, the children being the most. The parents are traumatized also for putting their babies in the hands of these monsters. The trust these parents put into these leader of their Faith, is heart crushing to the umpth degree.

"Betrayal of trust" does not begin to compare with what was done to the children. Not in the same ballpark.

 

[year2late]

And?

A pervert is a pervert. Perverts will naturally work in places where it'll be easy to prey on their victims.
We see tons of coaches who are perverts - why? Because being a coach not only gives them access to their victims, but they can also use their authority over their victims!

What is better than having that perception of "authority" because they see you as a "man of God?"
That kind of authority must trump coaches and teachers and daycare workers and therapists!


This is not about religion. It's about having access to victims by predators.
The Church is victimized too, you know.



If that isn't clear enough - answer this: Do you think a pedophile will want to work in a retirement home?

The church can be victimized...BUT if they cover up....to me they are almost as guilty as the ones committing the crimes. The actual perp has sick impulses he is unable to control. But the church officials who know and covers it up, has no such impulses and has every ability to call the police.

 

[spud_meister]

You're missing the point!
The heirarchy is not "the church!" The building is not the church!
The Church is the believers who gather together.



https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html


It's still THE CHURCH that becomes victimized!

It's "the believers" that are concealing abuse from authorities. Do you believe the "two witnesses" rule to be good policy?

 

[zyzygy]

The elite, the filthy rich, politicians, those in power, they have abused and used children to their own selfish pleasures just as those you have mentioned.

There's evil out there, and his name is Satan.

Satan is a fictional character. All religions have a fictional bad guy.

 

[tosca1]

The church can be victimized...BUT if they cover up....

....BUT if they (the hierarchy, the clergy).....if they cover up.....then, they are participating in victimizing the Church.
They are plain and simple: accomplices.

to me they are almost as guilty as the ones committing the crimes. The actual perp has sick impulses he is unable to control. But the church officials who know and covers it up, has no such impulses and has every ability to call the police.

These leaders are supposed to protect the SHEEP!
Surely the perverts have been feeding their victims some lies (false teachings), to get their trust, or to dupe them, and to make these perversions seem acceptable to God. Surely, the perverts are trying to justify why a "man of God" would be doing such things!

I wonder how many among perverts had manipulated, corrupted and used this verse?

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.




These church leaders are the Shepherds!


Acts 20:28
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.


Titus 1:7
For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,


James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.


1 Peter 5:2
shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;




Repentance must come with an apology. In the light of how these scandals is causing damage to the Church, the leaders must do everything they can to rectify the problems.

If a leader (no matter how high-ranking he is) had been involved with the cover-up, he has to humble himself......
......come clean and confess about it...... and, do the right thing by stepping down.


Titus 1:7
For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward,

 

[tosca1]

It's "the believers" that are concealing abuse from authorities.

How many believers are concealing the abuse? Are you saying everyone in that church knows about it?
What do they know? How much do they know???

Just because they heard a rumour - do you think they should believe it's true?
Should a rumour be repeated and passed along to others???


Should someone be vilified on the basis of a rumour? Trial by public opinion??? Like MeToo?
Do you think that's justice?

Do you believe the "two witnesses" rule to be good policy?

To have witnesses to establish the credibility of the alleged crime is part of any investigations, even in the secular world.

However, it doesn't mean though that there are witnesses to every crime.....and just because there are no witnesses, it doesn't necessarily mean that no crime has been committed.
On the same token, just because someone accuses a person of a crime does not necessarily mean the accused has committed a crime.

Proper, fair investigations must be conducted.

FAIRNESS, is a big stipulation among leaders and judges.




Leviticus 19
15 “‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.


Job 8:3
Does God twist justice? Does the Almighty twist what is right?


Isaiah 33:14-17
The sinners in Jerusalem shake with fear. Terror seizes the godless. “Who can live with this devouring fire?” they cry. “Who can survive this all-consuming fire?” Those who are honest and fair, who refuse to profit by fraud, who stay far away from bribes, who refuse to listen to those who plot murder, who shut their eyes to all enticement to do wrong– these are the ones who will dwell on high.


Proverbs 24
24
Whoever says to the guilty, “You are innocent,”
will be cursed by peoples and denounced by nations.
25
But it will go well with those who convict the guilty,
and rich blessing will come on them.



James 2:1-4
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.


Proverbs 31:9
Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

 

[tosca1]

All were terribly affected, the children being the most. The parents are traumatized also for they are the one's who put their babies in the hands of these monsters. Living with that is a heavy cross to bear, not to mention the anger, which leads to depression.

The trust these parents put into these leader's of their Faith, is heart crushing to the umpth degree.

And to add to that.......some people had their faith shaken.....some even lost their faith.

It's kinda like bringing in the sheep, and yet someone's opened the backdoor to get them out again.

 

[OlNate]

Except that all the Earthly Institutions of the Church claim to be the physical embodiment of your abstract idea, that's the difference.

Your comments are inappropriate, the only ones victimized in this situation, are the children.

Jet...no, definitions are not irrelevant. The children being victimized are "the church"... Normally I wouldn't split hairs, but there's a clear misunderstanding here. What she's saying is that it hurts our people too.

And no, it's not just the children are victimized. Would you be unaffected if your kid was abused or molested? Would their siblings and grandparents? Families go to these churches. Also, given the trust factor, the entire church is hurt when a leader engages in this activity. Yes, the abused child is the foremost victim, and suffers the worse, no question...but if you think everyone else involved is like "meh", you're not understanding the situation.