ISIS: The Embodiment of Islam [W 11]

[Chagos]

Universal Human Rights Alpha and Omega: Islam caused the Dark Ages
Guess your professor should have done some more research.

Oh ferchrissake, what that "contribution" shows is that you don't even read your own links.

The book that follows is not a history in the normal sense, but, as the subtitle explains, the history of a controversy.

Pirenne's thesis was under fire the minute he set it up and not one historian of stature follows it today.

If it were not for the fact that you came across him only just now (in frantic search for some support of your asinine claim), you'd have known that.

Yet another confirmation of how you really should not spout forth on history of any kind, seeing how here you confirm once again how ignorant of it you are.

 

[Chagos]

You and your professor can also look at this.


‘Science’ ‘Proves’ the Dark Ages Caused by Islamic Jihad | The Oil for Your Lamp

Bill Warner shouda stuck to what he has a PhD. in.

Physics.

That way he wouldn't have to lie himself into seizures by pretending to have one in history.

 

[Chagos]

You do see you are conflating all Muslims with terror? I am not. I am concerned with the violent Muslims inspired by Islam, not your peace loving ones. When you can separate the two let me know.

You did not answer the question as is your habitual dishonest manner. As long as that state persists (and depending on the answer) you are not providing any pertinent argument over how YOU are NOT conflating Muslims with Islam with IS with terror.

I'm not conflating anything, I'm asking that you unriddle this logical conundrum of your own making.

 

[Chagos]

Did you listen to the video? If you have not you should say nothing.

Actually, IF one has listened to it, the best reaction can be to dismiss it with silence.

On account of it not being worthy of address.

 

[Chagos]

Where do you find these little cesspools of hate on the web? Is there some kind of page that is full of links to these moronic sites?

It's called the bookmark folder.

 

[zyzygy]

Oh ferchrissake, what that "contribution" shows is that you don't even read your own links.Pirenne's thesis was under fire the minute he set it up and not one historian of stature follows it today.

If it were not for the fact that you came across him only just now (in frantic search for some support of your asinine claim), you'd have known that.

Yet another confirmation of how you really should not spout forth on history of any kind, seeing how here you confirm once again how ignorant of it you are.

The years of diligent research turned out to be 10 seconds on google. On the other hand I live in Belgium and knew about Pirenne.

 

[Chagos]

Facts about Islam are not hate, it is information.

Lies about Islam are not necessarily hate either (at least not by default). But those that you spread are designed to instigate hate. To call them information is risible.

No emotion is necessary on my part.

I'd agree to that also. However that raises the question of why you then allow yourself to be consumed by it.

I see you still have not supplied one example of that hate.

You can't expect every single one of your posts (or threads) to be cited.

 

[Chagos]

Guess you should go to real historians for information.

"The thesis of the Belgian historian, Henri Pirenne, in 'Mohammed and Charlemagne', published posthumously in 1937, was that the real break with the Roman Empire came with the 7th Century Arab conquest which closed the Mediterranean to the West.

Today this thesis no longer holds water. The vast majority of historians agree that by 600CE Western Europe had reverted to localised economies, cities had decreased in size and importance, even in the most urbanised area, Italy, and that Christianity did not centre on the Papacy in Rome (in some ways an outpost of the Eastern Empire then)."
Debunking the 'clash of civilisations' - Counterfire

What's more, Pirenne offered the thesis that Islam cut Western Europe off from trade with areas (Mediterranean) with which said trade had previously functioned well.

Archaeology has long since disproved this thesis, its findings having shown that Mediterranean trade showed no disruption at all.

Heck, it went far enough North to reach the Vikings. Before those went far enough South to improve logistics.

 

[Chagos]

The years of diligent research turned out to be 10 seconds on google. On the other hand I live in Belgium and knew about Pirenne.

Anyone having studied history beyond their local village bulletins of last week's events has heard of Pirenne.

And I'm not knocking him altogether, alone his contribution to discussion of history has merit. But all science is an ongoing process and if that is ignored, we might as well cite Edward Gibbon as gospel and consider everything to be written in stone henceforth.

 

[zyzygy]

What's more, Pirenne offered the thesis that Islam cut Western Europe off from trade with areas (Mediterranean) with which said trade had previously functioned well.

Archaeology has long since disproved this thesis, its findings having shown that Mediterranean trade showed no disruption at all.

Heck, it went far enough North to reach the Vikings. Before those went far enough South to improve logistics.

I've read about the Viking trade routes.

 

[zyzygy]

Anyone having studied history beyond their local village bulletins of last week's events has heard of Pirenne.

And I'm not knocking him altogether, alone his contribution to discussion of history has merit. But all science is an ongoing process and if that is ignored, we might as well cite Edward Gibbon as gospel and consider everything to be written in stone henceforth.

He did some good work but for a better view of the commerce of the period try Chris Wickham's "Framing the Early Middle Ages."

 

[Chagos]

I've read about the Viking trade routes.
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I recall early school days where "history" consisted of dealing with them by referring to Lindisfarne.

That was it.

Bit like the local village news rag on last week's events mentioned earlier.

If you're ever in Russia and want to make yourself really unpopular, point out that the first Russian realm of any significance (and thus the first Russian nation) was founded by them.

 

[zyzygy]

I recall early school days where "history" consisted of dealing with them by referring to Lindisfarne.

That was it.

Bit like the local village news rag on last week's events mentioned earlier.

If you're ever in Russia and want to make yourself really unpopular, point out that the first Russian realm of any significance (and thus the first Russian nation) was founded by them.

So the contention that Islam caused the Dark Ages can be dismissed.

 

[Chagos]

He did some good work but for a better view of the commerce of the period try Chris Wickham's "Framing the Early Middle Ages."

Yup, I've buried my nose in that one.

 

[Chagos]

So the contention that Islam caused the Dark Ages can be dismissed.

Never even gave it any consideration.

 

[zyzygy]

Never even gave it any consideration.

If some people tripped over a stone in the street they would give Islam the blame.

 

[Chagos]

If some people tripped over a stone in the street they would give Islam the blame.

Have you forgotten that there is a logical end to critical thinking?

After all we have been thus informed by our resident logic expert.:lol:

 

[RAMOSS]

Well, I lived in the US for a number of years and nobody tried to kill me there either.

Of course I'm leaving out motorists in N.Y.C. who all did.:mrgreen:

They didn't actively try to kill you, they just ignored it when you got in the way.

 

[Chagos]

They didn't actively try to kill you, they just ignored it when you got in the way.

Yeah, I guess if there'd been any "actively" involved, they really needed to go back to "basic". Quite apart from my not getting in their way, they were getting in mine.

 

[RAMOSS]

Yeah, I guess if there'd been any "actively" involved, they really needed to go back to "basic". Quite apart from my not getting in their way, they were getting in mine.

That is what is known as 'too many people, not enough escape routes'.

 

[Fledermaus]

This is about what Islam says and what ISIS is saying and doing. You are trying to make it about individual Muslims, that is not the subject.

I on the other hand try to make it Islam in general.

How can ISIS personify Islam when thw vast majority of Muslims reject ISIS?

 

[Fledermaus]

Still can't find any hate?

I have.

 

[Vox]

Why are people afraid to believe this? What sense doesn't it make?

Articles: ISIS: The Embodiment of Islam

Nobody's "afraid" to believe it.

We don't believe it because it's sheer poppycock.

The Koran DOES have context and your wild claims can only be used when taken OUT of context.

Blame global politics and Colonialism.......don't blame the Koran.

:2usflag:

 

[zyzygy]

I on the other hand try to make it Islam in general.

How can ISIS personify Islam when thw vast majority of Muslims reject ISIS?

Good point.

 

[stevecanuck]

How can ISIS personify Islam when thw vast majority of Muslims reject ISIS?

Because following Islam as Mohamed and the first Muslims did requires abandoning everything to kill or be killed to spread Islam, and that's one hell of a commitment. Also, I agree that the majority of Muslims have no intention of doing so, but that doesn't mean they reject the concept.