Is Trump a Fascist?

[bomberfox]

Sanders praises Communist regimes and honeymooned in the Soviet Union. He wants to nationalize 1/6th of the US economy and place it under government control. Under HIS control. That makes him at least as much a communist as Trump is a fascist.

He hates the Citizens United decision which means he wants to ban speech from private organizations that mention his name 30 days before a primary or 60 days before an election. That actually makes him kind of a fascist too.

Thats not what overturning citizens united would do and the UK isnt communist.

 

[bomberfox]

Nazi Party Platform of 1920:

A lot of similiarites, except fascists actually had policies to help the working class.

Thats tenuous at best. Fascists want to destroy working class power.

 

[captaintrips]

Significant chunk of his supporters yes they do. If twump or fox news, or even some rando on the net comes up with a story that looks favorable for twump, they believe it. Twump started his campaign dehumanizing his predecessor and wanted to lock up his political rival. The whole crowd at his rallies chanted with him. Yes there are that many that want exactly this.

Better watch how you talk - or write - of our upcoming fascist twump.

You DO know what fascists do to people like you who PUBLICLY speak and write of them the way YOU have, do you NOT !!

Caution !! Caution !!

 

[bomberfox]

No. Every fascist movement which has seized governmental power immediately set about eliminating its domestic political opposition through any and all means within its power, both legal or illegal, until it controlled all the organs of the state and then moved to crush all opposing voices within the culture. There is no such Gleichschaltung here.

If Donald Trump was a fascist, an actual dyed-in-the-wool fascist, our political landscape would look more like Russia's than our current one, with murdered journalists and news correspondents left and right, and political opponents jailed under the flimsiest of pretexts. Anderson Cooper would be dead. Nancy Pelosi would be in Guantanamo Bay. And all the children in cages? They wouldn't be slated for deportation. Their cold lifeless bodies would be stacked like cordwood in ditches in the Arizona desert.

To call Donald Trump a fascist unironically is to insult the victims of actual fascist movement and to minimize fascism as a political force.

I dont think success or failure in an endeavor prevents someone from being a fascist. The question is about trump and what he wants to do.

 

[j brown's body]

Thats tenuous at best. Fascists want to destroy working class power.

Lip service.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

You really don't know Trump Supporters then.

Sure I do. Not once have I seen them turn against him as he attacks Congress, the Judiciary, our laws, the Constitution or 230 years of precedent. The typical Trump supporter wants an unchecked, all powerful executive.

 

[j brown's body]

Since people can complain about him and not have worry about disappearing or the fact the he still has to go through congress kinda proves he isn't a fascist.

What's he have to go through congress for?

 

[j brown's body]

So you're completely fine with just lying directly to people?

Tell me, where does MAGA mention race?

What past does he want to take us back to? What did it look like?

 

[j brown's body]

No. Every fascist movement which has seized governmental power immediately set about eliminating its domestic political opposition through any and all means within its power, both legal or illegal, until it controlled all the organs of the state and then moved to crush all opposing voices within the culture. There is no such Gleichschaltung here.

If Donald Trump was a fascist, an actual dyed-in-the-wool fascist, our political landscape would look more like Russia's than our current one, with murdered journalists and news correspondents left and right, and political opponents jailed under the flimsiest of pretexts. Anderson Cooper would be dead. Nancy Pelosi would be in Guantanamo Bay. And all the children in cages? They wouldn't be slated for deportation. Their cold lifeless bodies would be stacked like cordwood in ditches in the Arizona desert.

To call Donald Trump a fascist unironically is to insult the victims of actual fascist movement and to minimize fascism as a political force.

I wonder if the children he is holding in indefinite detention or the families seeking asylum that he is forcing to live in tent cities in Mexico would find it offensive.

 

[Jay59]

Thats tenuous at best. Fascists want to destroy working class power.

Which Trump strongly supports. It begs the question, why even ask if he'e fascist. He has never acted like one, though his opposition has.

Sure I do. Not once have I seen them turn against him as he attacks Congress, the Judiciary, our laws, the Constitution or 230 years of precedent. The typical Trump supporter wants an unchecked, all powerful executive.

You don't. You know a stereotype and treat it like it's the whole truth. This post is one case on point.

 

[j brown's body]

Madeleine Albright's book, "Fascism: A Warning" asks some questions that can help us determine just how fascist Trump is:

Do they cater to our prejudices by suggesting that we treat people outside our ethnicity, race, creed or party as unworthy of dignity and respect?

Do they want us to nurture our anger toward those who we believe have done us wrong, rub raw our grievances and set our sights on revenge?

Do they encourage us to have contempt for our governing institutions and the electoral process?

Do they seek to destroy our faith in essential contributors to democracy, such as an independent press, and a professional judiciary?

Do they exploit the symbols of patriotism, the flag, the pledge in a conscious effort to turn us against one another?

If defeated at the polls, will they accept the verdict, or insist without evidence they have won?

Do they go beyond asking about our votes to brag about their ability to solve all problems put to rest all anxieties and satisfy every desire?

Do they solicit our cheers by speaking casually and with pumped up machismo about using violence to blow enemies away?

Do they echo the attitude of Mussolini: “The crowd doesn’t have to know, all they have to do is believe and submit to being shaped.”?

Fascism Quotes by Madeleine K. Albright

 

[j brown's body]

Which Trump strongly supports. It begs the question, why even ask if he'e fascist. He has never acted like one, though his opposition has.

How does he "strongly support" it? He names judges courts who side with corporations against workers and unions as a matter of course.

Acting like one? See above.

 

[Felis Leo]

I wonder if the children he is holding in indefinite detention or the families seeking asylum that he is forcing to live in tent cities in Mexico would find it offensive.

With the exception of particularly prized political prisoners, Fascists do not believe in indefinite detention. One's detention usually ends either (1) being returned to one's family a few weeks or months later bruised and broken with a permanent thousand yard stare, emotionally ruined to the point that one never seeks to engage in public life or defy the regime again, or (2) in the mass grave or the crematory retort.

 

[Jay59]

How does he "strongly support" it? He names judges courts who side with corporations against workers and unions as a matter of course. Acting like one? See above.

More stereotypes. I should have expected it. It's telling that you focus on courts instead of the things that matter to the working class.

Working class people support Trump because he provides what they want and need--jobs, security, income--and defends them from those who think of them as deplorable.

 

[Tangmo]

You two are easily swayed by a comeback post with virtually no data in it whatsoever.

Data is good and so is analysis which is what you're getting at the moment. There's room for each separately or together. Live with it.

 

[calamity]

No, Donald Trump is not a fascist.

There are some extreme progressives, they who were angered so badly by his election, that like to say he IS, because he is getting in the way of their asinine ideas.

But that does not make him a fascist, any more than it makes me a space-man ; )

Of course he is fascist.

Trump is reportedly furious that the stock market is plunging on coronavirus fears

Although, I would accept "petulant child" as an alternate answer.

 

[j brown's body]

With the exception of particularly prized political prisoners, Fascists do not believe in indefinite detention. One's detention usually ends either (1) being returned to one's family a few weeks or months later bruised and broken with a permanent thousand yard stare, emotionally ruined to the point that one never seeks to engage in public life or defy the regime again, or (2) in the mass grave or the crematory retort.

Ending up in a mass grave might be considered indefinite.

 

[j brown's body]

More stereotypes. I should have expected it. It's telling that you focus on courts instead of the things that matter to the working class.

Working class people support Trump because he provides what they want and need--jobs, security, income--and defends them from those who think of them as deplorable.

Yet you provide no example of him supporting workers, other than through rhetoric, which is which the fascists did, while I provide evidence that he does not.

 

[Jay59]

Madeleine Albright's book, "Fascism: A Warning" asks some questions that can help us determine just how fascist Trump is:

Do they cater to our prejudices by suggesting that we treat people outside our ethnicity, race, creed or party as unworthy of dignity and respect?
Do you call them deplorable?

Do they want us to nurture our anger toward those who we believe have done us wrong, rub raw our grievances and set our sights on revenge?
Ever heard of Antifa?

Do they encourage us to have contempt for our governing institutions and the electoral process?
See the recent impeachment in the House.

Do they seek to destroy our faith in essential contributors to democracy, such as an independent press, and a professional judiciary?
Independent press. That's a funny one. Trump has been very active with the judiciary.

Do they exploit the symbols of patriotism, the flag, the pledge in a conscious effort to turn us against one another?
or vice versa

If defeated at the polls, will they accept the verdict, or insist without evidence they have won?
See the 2000 election in addition to the 2016 election.

Do they go beyond asking about our votes to brag about their ability to solve all problems put to rest all anxieties and satisfy every desire?
Green New Deal, Medicare for All, Free College, Loan forgiveness. Fascists are also socialists.

Do they solicit our cheers by speaking casually and with pumped up machismo about using violence to blow enemies away?
Trump? Machismo? That one really is funny. Biden does though and it was amusing to watch Bloomberg try.

Do they echo the attitude of Mussolini: “The crowd doesn’t have to know, all they have to do is believe and submit to being shaped.”?
Who said, "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."?

Fascism Quotes by Madeleine K. Albright

Fascism has socialist roots. If you are looking for the new fascists, start with the Democrats. They have a tame news media. They are the ones slapping on labels, pushing hatred and promoting political violence. They are the ones claiming a solution to all problems. They are the ones trying to silence dissent in academia.

 

[eman623]

Thats not what overturning citizens united would do and the UK isnt communist.

Uh, that's exactly what the CU decision was about. Go educate yourself about it.

And I didn't say that the UK was Communist. I said nationalizing industries is close to Communist in the same way Trump is close to Fascist. That's inarguably true. You can say it's still necessary, but it is what it is.

 

[bomberfox]

Uh, that's exactly what the CU decision was about. Go educate yourself about it.

And I didn't say that the UK was Communist. I said nationalizing industries is close to Communist in the same way Trump is close to Fascist. That's inarguably true. You can say it's still necessary, but it is what it is.

The mere transition of one industry or the advocacy there of does not make one close to a communist it takes a multitude of beliefs and policy prescriptions. Secondly overturning citizens united does not infringe on the freedom of speech unless you want to argue the past 200+ years has been a long time without such protections.

 

[bomberfox]

Fascism has socialist roots. If you are looking for the new fascists, start with the Democrats. They have a tame news media. They are the ones slapping on labels, pushing hatred and promoting political violence. They are the ones claiming a solution to all problems. They are the ones trying to silence dissent in academia.

Fascists tend to lie a lot to get into power. It is anti socialist.

 

[bomberfox]

Indeed.

Trump is a 21st century uniquely American fascist for which there is no standard dictionary definition because it had never gained state power until Trump was inserted into the presidency in the 2016 election.

The central point is that American Fascism is unique in the world because of the American Exceptionalism we know so well and that we take pride in, such as the 19th century belief in Manifest Destiny that gained currency broadly and energetically.

The configuration of 21st century uniquely American fascism is being formed, shaped, organized and given content as we speak and it draws its meaning from the existing standard definitions of past fascisms that gained state power during the first half of the 20th century in Europe, in East Asia and elsewhere since.

Your post #6 provides some of the outlines of the organic and embryonic uniquely American fascism occurring presently. Similar to Trump hating Obama and working feverishly to dismantle everything OB did and stood for, so too Putin-Trump and Rowers are conducting themselves and directing their behaviors against Articles 1 and 3 of the Constitution as well as many of the Amendments to it, the post civil war amendments especially. That is, the 21st Century Uniquely American Fascism hates the Constitution and the rationality of the European Enlightenment that provided a significant basis of its creation.

I would say the hatred of the enlightenment has always been a feature of fascism.

 

[bomberfox]

Since people can complain about him and not have worry about disappearing or the fact the he still has to go through congress kinda proves he isn't a fascist.

Its quite odd that you think describing one’s beliefs or ideological underpinnings is determined by the success in such endeavor.

 

[bomberfox]

Better watch how you talk - or write - of our upcoming fascist twump.

You DO know what fascists do to people like you who PUBLICLY speak and write of them the way YOU have, do you NOT !!

Caution !! Caution !!

Because everything happens overnight lolz.